Kargil’s military success was converted into political defeat: Musharraf

[I.R.A]

The important peaks are with pak military----.

Can you please share some illustration of this? And any close to accurate idea of losses suffered by both sides? Thanks

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@MastanKhan

Kargil HURT the MORALE of all the THREE wings of Pakistan Armed forces
which hurts even today

If Indian Army could undertake such dangerous FRONTAL ASSAULTS and evict Pakistanis

If IAF could bomb at 18000 FEET with such deadly results and lock on F 16s with
impunity

And If Indian Navy was POISED to block Karachi in just a few days

All this while being taken by surprise ; so imagine what we could do if we were to attack
in a well planned manner

 

[nair]

Come on Guys..... Mushraff wants to be back in politics....... He has been in hibernated mode for some time.... Now he want to be back with a bang....... What else can it be????? "Kargil Victory"........

Move on guys we have discussed it to death.....

 

[MastanKhan]

A) Yes, during War, India is not facing sever Ammunition shortages , the only thing is 155mm Guns were brought from Strike Cops to Kargil.

B) By the time end PAK is only one week of Fuel left, You think after one week Mayhem will havoc in PAK when everything in PAK stopped. Car/ factories / power plants / and your Army will dried up after a one more week.

D) US had put much pressure in India not to escalate the conflict



In war India never Run out of 155mm Ammo , In war you have to replenish stocks at faster level to meet any eventuality. thats why their is always faster procurement during wars .

But do you have fuel left to fight a War? what you think IAF will do after wiping PAF ?

if NS should be hand what you should do with Army ? who so scared that block the kargil report?




In 1965 , all the western Countries are in PAK favour / Allies, did you ever find any mention n Operation brasstrak? they did not even mentioned that IA reached Lahore

During Cuba missile crisis, West only published the report that Russian gone back from Cuba , but they didn't Print the news that US has to withdraw missiles for Russian border countries also in return.

Hi,

I don't know about you---but I was alive and well in 1965---. I remember the Gnat that was forced to land at pasroor flew right above our house and my father saying that is an indian plane and I looked at it go by---- I did not see any indian victory in 1965----.

With your size and numbers---you should have walked right thru us---. With twice the army and armor and aircraft----but have nothing to show for it except to be the butt of jokes and laughing stock on the world----.

There was no place for the Indians to hide their embarrassment in foreign countries in 1965. For us it was 1971----.

Now if you are such a strong military then what has stopped you from neutralizing Pakistan once for all.

Because we know that if we were your size-----and we had you your resources and number of troops and weapons-----and you were our size----we would have vaporized you a long time ago----.

What is it that is holding the mighty indian warrior back-------3 time the number of air force---3 times the number of naval fleet ----3 times the number of tanks and army---and still no bueno.

All you Indians are bitching and moaning and fighting like illiterate women back home---I do this to you---I do that to you----I am stronger than you----so---when are you guys going to finish us off----or is this bickering keep going to continue till the next episode.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

--when are you guys going to finish us off----or is this bickering keep going to continue till the next episode.

What is the hurry

The status quo suits India ; Pakistan is doing a fine job of hurting itself

The India Pakistan race is over ; we have succesfully dehyphenated ourselves from Pakistan

We are in a DIFFERENT orbit now ; we are in different " lists " globally
that is our victory

Move on guys we have discussed it to death.....

If 1965 can be discussed a MILLION Times ; Kargil is quite recent

 

[MastanKhan]

There is this one question..if Musharraf did not need NS for planning and even execution of his plan, then why was NS required when things got tough ? Why didn't Musharraf simply go ahead with his plan if it was so good ?

To me, it sounds like Musharraf vomitted and wanted someone else to clean his mess.

Hi,

Nawaz Sharif was a part and parcel of planning----. He agreed to it all the way----that is why Kargil operation was launched----.

Remember---Musharraf was Nawaz Sharif's man----Nawaz had picked him for that job. The deal was the Musharraf would carry out the strike and Nawaz would take the stand as the prime minister----.

 

[nForce]

Hi,

I don't know about you---but I was alive and well in 1965---. I remember the Gnat that was forced to land at pasroor flew right above our house and my father saying that is an indian plane and I looked at it go by---- I did not see any indian victory in 1965----.

With your size and numbers---you should have walked right thru us---. With twice the army and armor and aircraft----but have nothing to show for it except to be the butt of jokes and laughing stock on the world----.

There was no place for the Indians to hide their embarrassment in foreign countries in 1965. For us it was 1971----.

Now if you are such a strong military then what has stopped you from neutralizing Pakistan once for all.

Because we know that if we were your size-----and we had you your resources and number of troops and weapons-----and you were our size----we would have vaporized you a long time ago----.

What is it that is holding the mighty indian warrior back-------3 time the number of air force---3 times the number of naval fleet ----3 times the number of tanks and army---and still no bueno.

All you Indians are bitching and moaning and fighting like illiterate women back home---I do this to you---I do that to you----I am stronger than you----so---when are you guys going to finish us off----or is this bickering keep going to continue till the next episode.

You started a war and the fact that India did not walk through you, that you consider to be victory ? Probably the Indian objectives were to protect the territorial boundaries and not obliterating Pakistan? Have you thought about that ? I mean, there has to be a better reasoning man..

Hi,

Nawaz Sharif was a part and parcel of planning----. He agreed to it all the way----that is why Kargil operation was launched----.

Remember---Musharraf was Nawaz Sharif's man----Nawaz had picked him for that job. The deal was the Musharraf would carry out the strike and Nawaz would take the stand as the prime minister----.

Where are you getting all this from..It looked like NS picked Musharraf to be his man in the army and the plan backfired..Later Musharraf removed NS from power and forced him into exile..

 

[unbiasedopinion]

Thats the best possibility among all the options. India/US having such a powerful network in china which can record conversation of a foreign military chief seems a bit unrealistic.

They might want to prevent a nuclear war and hence helped India to expose Pakistan. (May be)

So you mean, Chinese internally do not trust Pakistan because they know their double speak in terms of terrorism? Chinese trust India more than Pakistan that they provided the information against their beloved friend to India...

 

[MastanKhan]

Can you please share some illustration of this? And any close to accurate idea of losses suffered by both sides? Thanks

Hi,

As I stated---india lost more troops at kargil than the 71 war---. Pakistani losses were very heavy as well. There were dead bodies left behind----the decision was made ---men have died---they have done their job---. The control of the critical peaks will not be given back----.

The main road is still under the range of Pakistani artillery---.

 

[I.R.A]

Hi,

As I stated---india lost more troops at kargil than the 71 war---. Pakistani losses were very heavy as well. There were dead bodies left behind----the decision was made ---men have died---they have done their job---. The control of the critical peaks will not be given back----.

The main road is still under the range of Pakistani artillery---.

Is there any chance of another surprise, this time with more dedication and political will to capitalise on it?

 

[MastanKhan]

Where are you getting all this from..It looked like NS picked Musharraf to be his man in the army and the plan backfired..Later Musharraf removed NS from power and forced him into exile..

Kid,

If you don't even know that part---then is it worth you discussing with adults---. It is better for children to keep their mouths shut and listen to what the elders are talking about----.

Is there any chance of another surprise, this time with more dedication and political will to capitalise on it?

Hi,

Absolutely----. As I stated before that what we did in kargil---this drama of cold start suits Pakistan better than it suits india---.

For us kargil was cold start----we achieved the goal at a time when our military over all was the weakest.

On a scale of 1----10 when you would rate the indian air force of that time at a 10---Pakistan air force was a maybe a 2 ---.

Today Pakistan air force is in the range of 8---8.5 to india's 10----. Once we see indian troop movement---we can move faster and strike first----.

Don't worry about all these indian kids talking tough over here----.

 

[nForce]

Kid,

If you don't even know that part---then is it worth you discussing with adults---. It is better for children to keep their mouths shut and listen to what the elders are talking about----.

I wish you could have dropped the high-handedness..
I'm asking questions based on logic over here. If you don't want to answer them for what ever reasons you have, just tell me that.

You don't have to be insulting, do you see me doing the same to you ? This is where the usual name-calling starts..

If there are dark little secrets placed all around for the missing pieces of the apparent jigsaw puzzle, secrets that you know but don't want to share, then better not talk about them in an open forum, no ?

 

[MastanKhan]

I wish you could have dropped the high-handedness..
I'm asking questions based on logic over here. If you don't want to answer them for what ever reasons you have, just tell me that.

You don't have to be insulting, do you see me doing the same to you ? This is where the usual name-calling starts..

If there are dark little secrets placed all around for the missing pieces of the apparent jigsaw puzzle, secrets that you know but don't want to share, then better not talk about them in an open forum, no ?

Sir,

When there are facts available regarding Nawaz and Musharraf---then logic has no place.

I wish you could have dropped the high-handedness..
I'm asking questions based on logic over here. If you don't want to answer them for what ever reasons you have, just tell me that.

You don't have to be insulting, do you see me doing the same to you ? This is where the usual name-calling starts..

If there are dark little secrets placed all around for the missing pieces of the apparent jigsaw puzzle, secrets that you know but don't want to share, then better not talk about them in an open forum, no ?

Sir,

When there are facts available regarding Nawaz and Musharraf---then logic has no place.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Hi,

I don't know about you---but I was alive and well in 1965---. I remember the Gnat that was forced to land at pasroor flew right above our house and my father saying that is an indian plane and I looked at it go by---- I did not see any indian victory in 1965----.

With your size and numbers---you should have walked right thru us---. With twice the army and armor and aircraft----but have nothing to show for it except to be the butt of jokes and laughing stock on the world----.

There was no place for the Indians to hide their embarrassment in foreign countries in 1965. For us it was 1971----.

1965 Embarrassment for India? lol , how-come? Its PAK who attacked India , lunched commando style attack and want to capture Kashmir? india open other front and saved kashmir.

In 1965 , you PAF is armed with AIR missile and IAF only have Guns for for Dog fight . Then also India saved a day .

how come it become embarrassment for India?

Now if you are such a strong military then what has stopped you from neutralizing Pakistan once for all.

India did in 1971 , and was to do in Kargil, But since you Gen was sitting in China and civilian govt is US both asking to save PAK , they put diplomatic pressure . India see advantage in Diplomacy and get high round , Effect , UN dropped Kashmir from its preview and west do not talk on Kashmir and US do not equate India and PAK on same level.

Because we know that if we were your size-----and we had you your resources and number of troops and weapons-----and you were our size----we would have vaporized you a long time ago----.

thats the difference between you and us , we don't want disturb you, we are growing and getting prosper and you didn't grow because you always feel jealous of other.s

What is it that is holding the mighty indian warrior back-------3 time the number of air force---3 times the number of naval fleet ----3 times the number of tanks and army---and still no bueno.

US holding back , and lack of political will that time. What if make you another afghan? it effect on India only , PAK people come to India bring gun culture . Which India do not want . the want your keep you in your borders and killing each other . War not always won by power , it also won by brain.

All you Indians are bitching and moaning and fighting like illiterate women back home---I do this to you---I do that to you----I am stronger than you----so---when are you guys going to finish us off----or is this bickering keep going to continue till the next episode.

Well india is , thats why it has Siachen and Kashmir , what it want it has with it.

Hi,

As I stated---india lost more troops at kargil than the 71 war---. Pakistani losses were very heavy as well. There were dead bodies left behind----the decision was made ---men have died---they have done their job---. The control of the critical peaks will not be given back----.

The main road is still under the range of Pakistani artillery---.

which Main Road? NH1, no it is not , because before you keep on firing shells on NH-1 , not its complete pin drop silence on NH-1 , Status Que is maintained . Check the map and see tight hills and other points.

 

[ZooZoo]

Hi,

I don't know about you---but I was alive and well in 1965---. I remember the Gnat that was forced to land at pasroor flew right above our house and my father saying that is an indian plane and I looked at it go by---- I did not see any indian victory in 1965----.

With your size and numbers---you should have walked right thru us---. With twice the army and armor and aircraft----but have nothing to show for it except to be the butt of jokes and laughing stock on the world----.

There was no place for the Indians to hide their embarrassment in foreign countries in 1965. For us it was 1971----.

Now if you are such a strong military then what has stopped you from neutralizing Pakistan once for all.

Because we know that if we were your size-----and we had you your resources and number of troops and weapons-----and you were our size----we would have vaporized you a long time ago----.

What is it that is holding the mighty indian warrior back-------3 time the number of air force---3 times the number of naval fleet ----3 times the number of tanks and army---and still no bueno.

All you Indians are bitching and moaning and fighting like illiterate women back home---I do this to you---I do that to you----I am stronger than you----so---when are you guys going to finish us off----or is this bickering keep going to continue till the next episode.

What happen in 1965...

India: India was just came out of war with China, Indian defense was poor. Economic side was on weaker plank...

Pakistan: Paksiatn was funded by USA to teeth.

Pakistan objective: to gain Kashmir Vally
Indian Objective: To sustain Kashmir:

Pakistan failed to achieve objective.. Indian passed.. though in war both side have some story to tell.