Kabhi apni shakal dekhi hai?

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Exactly.

We have Kashmir and we will keep it.

We will not care if we have to kill in millions or die in millions.

In fact, if anything, we havfe already shown that we do not care if we have to kill or be killed when it comes to preserving the territorial integrity of our country.

Patrician, my boy. I SALUTE YOU! Unlike others you have shown what you people are. But I would suggest you to do some history scrolling. You will find that the oppressors may stay for long but there rule comes to an end. And when there rule comes to end; maaan its a bad one!

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

There's no author's email address at the end. I want to tell him he has misspelt shakl.

 

[Soumitra]

I believe that 9% growth and trillion $ economy will triumph over religious consideration. Ram or Allah does not bring bread on the table. A stable economy does it.

Those who say Geelani is leader of Kashmiris I just have some questions for them
Has he ever fought an election and won?
Has he ever defined his vision for Kashmir apart from joining an almost failed state of pakistan?
If he thinks India is evil why he comes to Delhi for medical treatment and not to Islamabad?

Pakistan tried the tactic of militancy in Punjab and failed. What makes you think you will succeed in Kashmir?

 

[Humanist]

The more Pakistan chase Kashmir, more India will win..... that has happened in last 63 years and same will hapen in future too.... Pakistan has not realized that the difference between india and pakistan has increased tremedously in last 10 years.. India is far ahead now and is accelarting .......

 

[sputnik]

Even if for tht matter any resident of India wants to vote for Pak.then we prefer send him to you rather than giving an inch of Our land.

 

[sur]

Kashmir is going to remain with India just as it has all these years.

Pakistanis are more than welcome to burn down their own house for the utopian dream of getting Kashmir.

Who cares?

NOT only Kashmir is going to be seperated from u , also there're going to many more fragments,,, u will be fragmented into many small countries,,, just be patient & stay tuned,,,

 

[blackops]

NOT only Kashmir is going to be seperated from u , also there're going to many more fragments,,, u will be fragmented into many small countries,,, just be patient & stay tuned,,,

Jake balochistan sambhal long live the great fighters of BRA BLA

 

[niaz]

While this is true that we in Pakistan incorrectly presume that Kashmiris want to join Pakistan, I personally know many who do not. There is absolutely no justification for denying the Kashmiris the right of self-determination. What are Indians afraid of? This is however side tracking the issue, main argument of the writer is that there is a dire need of an introspective analysis in Pakistan.

Current situation in Pakistan reminds me of the conditions in the Ottoman Empire in late 18th Century. Until that time Ottomans were the dominant power in Europe and ruled all of North Africa, all the Arabian Peninsula, the Balkans and large parts of Eastern Europe.

Ottomans suffered major defeats during the wars of 1768-1774 with Russia. This resulted in Crimea first becoming independent and later being absorbed into Russian empire in 1783. Argument then raged that it was a serious mistake to assume that Allah will automatically bring about the victory of the Muslims against the infidels. Ahmad Resmi, the great Turkish Statesman emphasized that rules of politics and war apply to all states and any country that did not go by these rules was setting herself up for defeat.

Sultan Selim III tried to introduce military reforms by bringing in European instructors and equipped soldiers with better equipment. However a large section of the society, especially the Mullahs and the lower classes, considered this view to be fundamentally wrong. Sultan Selim was deposed and eventually murdered. This internal conflict resulted in the great Ottoman Empire turning into ' Sick man of Europe' during the 19th century and by 1920 it was reduced to present day Turkey.

It must be realized by all and sundry that introduction of the Sharia and creation of Khilafat will not change Pakistan into a heaven on earth. Instead it will create a Dark Age totalitarian regime like the Afghanistan under the Taliban.

We have to understand that remaining followers of Islam, we are Pakistanis first and foremost. We cannot commit economic and political suicide following the dream of a world dominating Islamic Emirate and continued interference in neighbouring countries in the name of jihad. We all look towards China for military and economic help, pray tell me did Chinese progress to Super Power occur thru a Khilafat?

Need of the hour is ‘Economic and Educational’ development. An economically independent country does not accept dictation from anyone.

 

[EjazR]

Because we will lose it. Simple. The Kashmiris of valley will any given day choose Independence (first priority) and Pakistan (second priority) over India.

According to public opinion surveys conducted by international organizations, that is incorrect.

Here is a report from Peacepolls.org that has done polling in both sides of Kashmir on possible final solution.

Remarkably, when it came to the critical issues of the constitution the top priority (from a list of 29) was 'J and K should be a secular state' at 68% 'essential or desirable'. And although it will come as no surprise that 63% of Muslims in the Kashmir Valley reject the constitutional status quo of remaining with India as 'totally unacceptable' 69% of that same population also considered a merger with Pakistan to be 'totally unacceptable'. So a UN plebiscite that is limited to these two options (a priority for Muslims at 71% 'essential or desirable') can not solve the problem of Kashmir. The only way forward is negotiation and that is what the people want. Not the corrupt street politics of sectarian division and communal strife.

Peace polls, an effective approach in helping resolve conflict

In another place the same report explains this result by saying

No one wants to ‘Join Pakistan’ (table 13). Even 71% of Muslims consider this option ‘unacceptable’ (69% in the Kashmir Valley). They could have chosen ‘tolerable’ but they didn’t........But the UN resolutions for a plebiscite are limited to these two options – India or Pakistan. Clearly the Muslims of J & K do not understand this issue or have been mislead.

Then there is a completely different report by the Chatham House that came out with the same conclusions here

The report specifically indicates that only about 2% would prefer joining Pakistan in a plebiscite.
Just 2% of people in J&K want to join Pak: Survey - Times Of India



Here is another excel spreadsheet based on the Chatham report and some other census data on what the people of Kashmir think. Against Militant Violence refers to people's sentiment on whether end of militant violence will bring about peace or be conducive to peace.

Because the plebiscite under the UN resolutions allows only India or Pakistan. India would win in such a plebiscite. But will this resolve the problem of internal unrest? No because, the problem is not between India or Pakistan. Its India and independence.
The UN plebiscite does not take this into account and hence become irrelevant and will not provide a solution.

 

[notsuperstitious]

So even you accept that you have to force kashmiris to stay under a tyrant india, force and tyrants never win my freind eventually long term history has proven the people win

Only when their demands are legitimate.

For example, Bangladesh separated successfully, but Balochistan did not (despite all the thousands of missing people). Tibet will not.

Now interpret that the way you want it.

 

[Patrician]

Patrician, my boy. I SALUTE YOU! Unlike others you have shown what you people are. But I would suggest you to do some history scrolling. You will find that the oppressors may stay for long but there rule comes to an end. And when there rule comes to end; maaan its a bad one!

Very true.

Oppressors' rule always does come to an end.

...err..but that happens when the oppressor believes that HE ACTUALLY IS the oppressor.

the point is, we don't believe that we are oppressors in the first place.

We firmly believe we are holding on to what is rightfully ours.

 

[Mav3rick]

Pakistan will never be in a position to get Kashmir. I can assure you of that.

Q- Why?

A - Because there is not a single damn thing in the world that Pakistan can do and India cannot.

There is something that Pakistan can do that India cannot.....and that is self destruction, you see when one does not care about one's own survival if his/her belief is so firm then that person must be taken very very seriously. I too advocate a logical and permanent solution to Kashmir issue through dialogue but push us against the wall much, as you are doing, and you will see the consequences that you do not even want to dream!

By pushing us against the wall I mean by withholding our fair share of fresh water as all the rivers originate in Kashmir. If we have nothing to lose any more, some day, we may have everything to gain! And I am sure that is a scary thought for any sane Indian.

 

[Mav3rick]

Very true.

Oppressors' rule always does come to an end.

...err..but that happens when the oppressor believes that HE ACTUALLY IS the oppressor.

the point is, we don't believe that we are oppressors in the first place.

We firmly believe we are holding on to what is rightfully ours.

Typical example of self denial.....if your sentences had any merit your Govt. would not have had 800k soldiers in Kashmir alone!

 

[Patrician]

Typical example of self denial.....if your sentences had any merit your Govt. would not have had 800k soldiers in Kashmir alone!

You don't get the point, do you?

I said we do not consider ourselves to be oppressors.

There's not even an iota of so much as a sense of guilt.

 

[Norboo]

Our current situation does not deprive us from our legitimate demand !!

So, what's your 'demand'? That Kashmir be handed over to you guys on a silver platter? Is that going to solve your debt crises? Or bring your economy out of the woods? Or banish terror from your land? Or bridge the Sunni - Shia divide? Or put more bread on the table for the the poor of Pakistan? Or send the Army back to the barracks? Or magically heal your corrupt lame duck government?

If your answer to all the above is 'YES' then you've got a case. Otherwise you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Then look into the mirror and apni shakal dekho!!

Cheers!