Just in: India's Nirbhay cruise missile blasts off from Integrated Test Range, Odisha. Details await

[ranadd]

@mods.

The test was a failure. Dick measuring competition is going on for sometime now. India bashing posts are in full effect.

Can we close the thread?

 

[MimophantSlayer]

If you read the original article properly, the Chinese are not claiming it based on 1 lave plain alone, it was actually based on the instruments on the lander, analyzing the moisture content of the moon surface. There were two theories about the existence of water on the moon, the Indian result wants to establish the theory that there were originally water on the moon, the second theory is some moisture contamination is coming from asteroids and meteors that frequently bombard the moon, hence there is no native water source. The Chinese instruments confirm this, please send Chandy-2 to refute this claim. That's the reason people don't declare a new discovery just by crashing a probe. LOL

For your information, Chinese instruments are on the moon surface now, we have a freaking ground penetrating radar on the surface man, the first on the moon.

Again, the findings are based on a limited area on the moon, it does not matter what instruments you lot used.
You cannot say with just a few chang e missions that you can CONFIRM that there is no native source of water on the moon. This is arrogance only the Chinese inhabit.


Your measly equipment(LUT, which is a basic RCT at best) which is static, can only move to certain degree, can only perform near UV visible spectrophotometry and you expect it to find OH radicals on the exosphere?
Yeah right, sour grapes much.

The more powerful M3 by NASA whch can do far more on the spectroscopy scale and the specialised CHACE mass spectrometer we used did the discovery.
Not to mention the LCROSS which also confirmed water on moon, had far more advanced equipment than in Chandrayaan or anything you have made.

This ‘discovery-class-of-finding’ by CHACE was achieved by direct in situ measurement of the lunar atmosphere during the descend journey of the MIP to the Lunar South Pole, while M3 discovered water in ice form by remote sensing techniques.
As for proving anything is far from reality, “offering a wide array of watery signals", is the only conclusion we came to after Chandrayaan.”

You lot did not refute anything, you just confirmed what space faring nations have been saying about the exospere of the moon for decades now.

You should educate yourself because you keep inferring crashing as the experiment but the experiment was done before the probe crashed, but what can you expect from the chinese who only like to paint rocks and name craters.
The CHACE payload in the lunar impactor (MIP) has directly detected water in its gaseous form along 14 degree E meridian from 45 degree N to 90 degree S latitude, with a latitudinal resolution of around 0.10 and altitudinal resolution of ~ 250 m from 98 km altitude till impact, whereas you static LUT was not able to find any OH radicals on the lower exospere of the moon which is higher than where we found water.

Probably because your equipment is not good enough and/or probably is far from where the shackleton crater is and/or the hemisphere of the moon is getting in the way or all of it.

For your information it really DOESN'T MATTER coz your instruments are nowhere near where we made the discovery.

And big deal.
Every new NASA mission to moon or mars carries some new instrument to study some new facet of the surface of the planetary bodies MIP by ISRO was also a new equipment.

BTW the GPR was not used for finding water what was used was the small inefficient LUT on board the static lander which has a restricted degree of movement and cannot even do specialised spectroscopy.

And don't you worry NASA is going to initiate far more high tech missions before us with even more specialized equipment, namely Lunar Flashlight, Lunar IceCube, LunaH-Map all towards the Shackleton crater.
You think they would waste so much money if they didn't find any water?
SO relax coz your bubble will be popped soon enough.

 

[Han Patriot]

Again, the findings are based on a limited area on the moon, it does not matter what instruments you lot used.
You cannot say with just a few chang e missions that you can CONFIRM that there is no native source of water on the moon. This is arrogance only the Chinese inhabit.


Your measly equipment(LUT, which is a basic RCT at best) which is static, can only move to certain degree, can only perform near UV visible spectrophotometry and you expect it to find OH radicals on the exosphere?
Yeah right, sour grapes much.

The more powerful M3 by NASA whch can do far more on the spectroscopy scale and the specialised CHACE mass spectrometer we used did the discovery.
Not to mention the LCROSS which also confirmed water on moon, had far more advanced equipment than in Chandrayaan or anything you have made.

This ‘discovery-class-of-finding’ by CHACE was achieved by direct in situ measurement of the lunar atmosphere during the descend journey of the MIP to the Lunar South Pole, while M3 discovered water in ice form by remote sensing techniques.
As for proving anything is far from reality, “offering a wide array of watery signals", is the only conclusion we came to after Chandrayaan.”

You lot did not refute anything, you just confirmed what space faring nations have been saying about the exospere of the moon for decades now.

You should educate yourself because you keep inferring crashing as the experiment but the experiment was done before the probe crashed, but what can you expect from the chinese who only like to paint rocks and name craters.
The CHACE payload in the lunar impactor (MIP) has directly detected water in its gaseous form along 14 degree E meridian from 45 degree N to 90 degree S latitude, with a latitudinal resolution of around 0.10 and altitudinal resolution of ~ 250 m from 98 km altitude till impact, whereas you static LUT was not able to find any OH radicals on the lower exospere of the moon which is higher than where we found water.

Probably because your equipment is not good enough and/or probably is far from where the shackleton crater is and/or the hemisphere of the moon is getting in the way or all of it.

For your information it really DOESN'T MATTER coz your instruments are nowhere near where we made the discovery.

And big deal.
Every new NASA mission to moon or mars carries some new instrument to study some new facet of the surface of the planetary bodies MIP by ISRO was also a new equipment.

BTW the GPR was not used for finding water what was used was the small inefficient LUT on board the static lander which has a restricted degree of movement and cannot even do specialised spectroscopy.

And don't you worry NASA is going to initiate far more high tech missions before us with even more specialized equipment, namely Lunar Flashlight, Lunar IceCube, LunaH-Map all towards the Shackleton crater.
You think they would waste so much money if they didn't find any water?
SO relax coz your bubble will be popped soon enough.

That's what science is all about, PROVE US WRONG!! Now send a rover or another probe and find us that 'WATER'. Your instrument probably detected asteroid OH contamination, that's the result of split second crash landing analysis.

China mapped and probed the moon TWICE, and still found no evidence of water. Yet, a malfunctioned probe crash landed and found water? by kicking off some dust? You can claim that our instruments are inefficient, I can claim contamination when you integrate those instruments in your 'world class' Indian facility.

The LUT is still at least functioning until now analyzing the moisture content, both instruments and the ground penetrating radar were not available before this when the Americans landed. You expect me to believe a crash landed probe?

 

[Han Patriot]

https://www.sott.net/article/324161...confirms-there-is-no-liquid-water-on-the-moon

The debate over lunar water has picked up in recent years. Some recent missions have used neutron spectroscopy to analyze the soil and come back with mixed results.

Readings from Chang'e 3's more accurate optical telescope should put the matter to rest.

The spacecraft has already broken a record for the longest work time of any lunar probe. It has constructed the first geological map of the astral body and sent seven terabytes of data back to Earth.

Inefficient? LOL

 

[Han Patriot]

Entire world is smoking. Only Chinese are left unaffected and pure.

I heard you guys can smoke ganja easily in India. =)

I'm pretty sure if you have any problem with text you highlighted, you are yet to complete your basic course.
Have tutions on me, I'm a University professor btw but I can indeed help you.

Not a single thing was related on them. Mars Orbiter Mission -1 carried prototypes and full versions of many newly developed equipments.

Hi Prof, your English now is bestest in the world. Please read the history of this debate. I am lazy reposting links after links showing that this is based on the SAME SATELLITE PLATFORM.

Nothing, actually China even not stopped. Yinghuo program is proof itself.

Yinghuo was BLOWN UP in a Russian rocket smarty ***. There were no more mission until 2020 at least.

Care to bring the link of post. Though, for a few equipments, India's EO equipments are more evolved.
Not quality wise because GaoFen-4 is world's most powerful GEO reconnaissance satellite plus other LEO GFs have a nice resolution, meanwhile CaroSats, lag behind in resolution by 10-20%. Not very large gap. But India's EO network covers it's region most. That's why Indian Weather Satellites serve for US and Europe, US is using Indian Sats in Afghanistan.

What do you mean evolved? As in biological organism, it can evolve? Prof, your YINGLISH is superb. US utilizes many weather satellites through a global weather constellation where information is shared for all. So now you have super advanced bestest weather satellite? Btw, where are the lens and the electronics for the super advanced spy sats made in? India has no space optical manufacturing facility and India has no chip fab. Care to guess? LOL

Launch has nothing to do with DSN.
And I don't think anybody trolled you for not using your launcher. Depends on launch slot than Geography. Using Araiane 5 from French Guyana is easier than using GSLV Mk3 from SriHariKota. Further, GSLV Mk3 isn't even passed complete tests yet.

Wow, your physics is even more powerful Prof, you don't need to track and communicate with the probe you launched? So your logic is India chose to launch from Guyana because of geography not because of inability? LOL

What freaking slots are you talking about....satellite position slots are different from launching, you can launch it from anywhere since the freaking earth is rotating genius, damn it!! Launching from equator saves fuel but hell it's saving Ariane fuel not saving you money!!!

Would love to get the link.

And so is difference between Chandrayaan and Mangalyaan.
From aim to design, generation, technology nothing is common between them except the fact that they both are orbiters.

Any difference between DFH-3 and DFH-4? Yes, thee are different platforms. Any difference between I2K and 13K, yes, there are different platforms, If both are using same platform, they are the freaking same TECHNOLOGY.

Hope it helps, to understand
http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25-mars-orbiter-mission

http://www.isro.gov.in/Spacecraft/chandrayaan-1

Equipment used in Mangalyaan for 3D imaging and studying atmosphere, tracking by passing asteroids is going to help so many Indian probes in future.
The limitation we learned that we have to improve sensitivity of our methane sensor.

It's the same freaking probe and with less advanced instruments compared to Chandrayaan since half of it was from overseas. So an improve methane sensor can mean game changing technology stopping China from launching? Use some common sense!!

Chinese call Indians braggers always but Indians are probably most moderate people, never troll others for not having same. Nor they underestimate anybody's capabilities (except for some nations, like Bangladeshis who claim that they can sink India's biggest warships with recently "ordered" anti ship missiles.

Neither anything is stopping China nor China has been stopped.

You guys have a serious inferiority complex versus China and you like to brag to cover it. I have seen so many cases, it's like an innate quality.

The American deep space network stationed in Spain and Australia. Huh?
So, Spanish and Aussies too become equal partners of MOM?
India has negligible ores of semiconductor materials like Silicon and Indium, so India has to import minerals to make equipments. So, Indian Probes and rockets are imported.

Please reread the debate and don't jump in half way. I am repeating myself for the third time, India can only go to Mars because of using American deep space comm and tracking. Without it, it will just be a probe and PSLV launcher, primitive by Chinese standards. I am not talking about raw materials jose, I am talking about semicon fabs. You have NONE.

India doesn't have oil so we import it. Hence, our automobiles are imported.

Some foreign fruits are becoming popular in India now a days. So, Indians eating those fruits and gaining calories for energy are imported citizens themselves.

Comparing space age chips and fruits. Genius indeed.

Source? Chandrayaan had imported payloads, not Mangalyaan.

Who asked you to embrace it? Simply ignore it, it's our mission, we got the maps, we got the composition of environment, it actually must be special for us only. Nothing must be special there for you.

No, its not.

No, China has it.

Show me the moon map PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

The precision of tracking depends upon the number of tracking systems available.

Besides, those "12 minutes of terror" while your spacecraft is being inserted into the orbit, your systems become blind when it's there behind phase of planet where your command centre is located.

To overcome this, you must track it from other side.
India did it by deploying tracking ships in Pacific Ocean as well as using Australian and Spanish trackers in night time. (And as ownership of those both launch pads was held by NASA, you guys are calling our mission American.)
Even today, Indian DSN is used to contact with Mangalyaan which probes our capability but during whiteout phase when Sun was there between us and Mars we temporarily lost communication, it proved my point.

Show some respect, you have no idea if the man behind the anonymous name is actually a working professional or at least an government instructor and trainer to those students who have been selected for this job.

Even India deploys a lot of trackers in Oceans, uses in spacecrafts a lot and demonstrated in some GEO satellites and IRNSS to make them proven.
China is slightly more lucky than us geographically being longer lengthwise plus with some islands in Oceania.
They will need lesser ships for same accuracy than India.

In that case, stop the usual tagline. For everything, you call it "decades" away and save your backsides after is happen calling it American, Russian, French, Japanese etc..

The precision of tracking and communications do not just depend on where it is located geographically, it also depends on how sensitive your receiver and transmitters are. You can send any signal to Mars, can you guarantee that signal is received on time and in the same quality as says one delivered to the Moon? That's the difference understand? Else China wouldn't be testing that technology on the Chang'e-2. If you don't do it yourself, India will forever be dependent on foreign networks. China also has a fleet of ships for tracking so don't think you are bestest again.

http://gbtimes.com/china/five-things-know-about-chinas-long-march-5-rocket

I don't see the word 'OPERATIONAL' at all. It just said successful launch.

For bragging over unlaunched HXMT.

Can you show me where we are bragging? Science satellite are not the primary technological indicators, it's just to contribute some science to humanity.

Who told you India is launching humans 30 years later?

Who told you India is not launching humans 30 years later. That's the point right, IT'S FUTURE TENSE.

2.5 tonnes will become 4.5 tonnes (GTO) this January , 6 tonnes (15 tonnes to LEO) following. We have got on the semi cryo stage now after a decade of research. Automatically, there will be a rapid evolution of Indian rocketry between 2015 and 2025 to employ the engine.

Yah, do it first, after years of reversing russian cryo, you guys still fail. Amazingly competent. Something China did for decades.

Just like Europeans need us.
They have the launcher, Americans have the launcher but they still use ours. Everything depends on slot man.

India's launch frequency depends upon re fabrication for a used launch pad and speed for producing castings for making rockets.

I think I won't stop you. Are you guys really so naive? Really? It never occurred to you that you actually needed to launch from Ariane because you can't launch it yourselves? I have never seen such crazy face saving attitude, It's like the dalit kid saying I am starving, but at least I am slim. LOL

Americans had been using Chinese launchers 20 years ago for 3-4 tonners, something you can't even do until today. PPL are piggy backing your launchers cause you are selling it at cost.That's why you see all those microsats from unis and researchers. You seen any big comm companies launch from India?

We are saying that Indian Heavy Launchers will not be used for launching foreign satellites because India needs more operational satellites than it operates currently.
For database, it includes sensitive information.
Americans have large companies like Google, Facebook with huge servers and store a lot of information for US intellegence. So, Russia and China created their own Yandex and BaiDu.
On the other hand, India is yet to create any super active social media platform and search engines. Even the few we created, are yet to gain popularity in Indian public where western sites have penetrated deep.
Chinese people are well familiar with BaiDu but so are not Indians with their engines like Raftaar. In terms of quality and availabile results, our system doesn't stand against Google or BaiDu anywhere.

Wtf are you moving to BAIDU and internet now? Dude, keep in context, stop going yindu on me. Do just talk talk talk without sense. There is no such shit as satellite of databases, there are comm sats. Damn it!

India doesn't have HEAVY LAUNCHERS.

Can you please complete basics.

GSLV has two versions, Mk1 unsuccessful, unreliable rocket and cancelled project.
Improved Mk2 which is as reliable as PSLV.

Do you wanna bet for next GSLV launch?

Yah, I have a pen and a pineapple.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

That's what science is all about, PROVE US WRONG!! Now send a rover or another probe and find us that 'WATER'. Your instrument probably detected asteroid OH contamination, that's the result of split second crash landing analysis.

China mapped and probed the moon TWICE, and still found no evidence of water. Yet, a malfunctioned probe crash landed and found water? by kicking off some dust? You can claim that our instruments are inefficient, I can claim contamination when you integrate those instruments in your 'world class' Indian facility.

The LUT is still at least functioning until now analyzing the moisture content, both instruments and the ground penetrating radar were not available before this when the Americans landed. You expect me to believe a crash landed probe?

We already proved we are right, the onus is on you to prove India and USA wrong on the poles of the moon not on Mare Imbrium which is nowhere near the poles.
No shit you didn't find water, if you are not on the poles.

And if this discovery you made was soooo significant you lot would have paraded it in all science circles and everyone would have been talking about it right now.
Just coz the Chinese said it later doesn't mean anything, go to the pole and then disprove what we said then we'll talk.
You findings are one of those nonsense findings that are quickly proven false in the next battery of tests.

Our probe was supposed to crash and it discovered water from 98 km altitude till impact not just on the split second.
You keep talking in circles and never really address NASA"s findings.
What about LCROSS and LRO?
They too found water on moon.
LCROSS too had a lunar impacter like the MIP on ISRO's Chandrayaan it performed spectral analyses among other tests resulting from the plume of the crash and proved the presence of water like India had initially proclaimed.

China mapped the moon's surface with 0 specialised equipment and hence never found water.
You were never trying to or simply couldn't.

LUT is small & inefficient, it does not analyze moisture content it is basically a telescope not a spectrometer, that can't even detect anything on the infrared spectrum and the whole of UV spectrum and you expect it to have decent findings on something as high as the exosphere of the moon near the poles.

LOL NASA had to crash a probe and we had to get as close as a few kilometers to discover water and chinese SOOPER DOOOPER equipment can make sane findings from 100s of miles away. Yeah sour grapes indeed.

LUT does not have a single specialized equipment to discover water and was made to discover planetary bodies not water concentration.
For all we know it found nothing and chinese being the loud mouth they are regurgitated nonsense and are now are not proclaiming "this discovery" everywhere for the fear of being proven wrong.
The horizon is getting in your way which is why you cannot detect or who knows if the LUT could if the plume was brought close to LUT, product being chinese and all.

You keep shouting radar, but it has no use in finding water.

I don't want you to believe 1 crash landing probe.
I want you to believe 2 crash landing probes by both ISRO and NASA.

Don't you worry there are 4-5 different tests coming in the next 5 years just for the purpose of expanding on the knowledge of lunar water, you have been proven wrong already as everyone is convinced that water has been found.
And when those tests bore results I know you will nowhere on that prticular thread.

 

[Bad Guy]

I heard you guys can smoke ganja easily in India. =)

Gardan ke niche ek lagega aur teri akal thikane aa jayegi.

Hi Prof, your English now is bestest in the world. Please read the history of this debate.

History of this debate is that a mentally disturbed teenager dragged the Nirbhay missile thread to Indian Space Exploration Program.

I am lazy reposting links after links showing that this is based on the SAME SATELLITE PLATFORM.

And we have gone lazy reading those cuz none of them says that Mgy-1 is based Cdy-1.

Yinghuo was BLOWN UP in a Russian rocket smarty ***. There were no more mission until 2020 at least.

My intellegent son, what would have happened if launch didn't fail? China would also be using DSN for tracking from different countries.

What do you mean evolved? As in biological organism, it can evolve? Prof, your YINGLISH is superb.

The evolve stands for timely change in technology here. I never thought that you were this pathetic!

US utilizes many weather satellites through a global weather constellation where information is shared for all. So now you have super advanced bestest weather satellite?

Means you have no problem in India using Spanish and Australian trackers now because India utilized under global corporation.

Btw, where are the lens and the electronics for the super advanced spy sats made in? India has no space optical manufacturing facility and India has no chip fab. Care to guess? LOL

No, India has these facilities and labs in cities like Bengaluru and Chandigarh. India just doesn't do mass manufacturing for household products.

Wow, your physics is even more powerful Prof, you don't need to track and communicate with the probe you launched? So your logic is India chose to launch from Guyana because of geography not because of inability? LOL

What freaking slots are you talking about....satellite position slots are different from launching, you can launch it from anywhere since the freaking earth is rotating genius, damn it!! Launching from equator saves fuel but hell it's saving Ariane fuel not saving you money!!![/QUOTE]
Not him, it's who you need a lesson, probably bunked the lectures in 9th standard.
The gravitational pull of earth increases from equator to poles and everybody knows this.

Any difference between DFH-3 and DFH-4? Yes, thee are different platforms. Any difference between I2K and 13K, yes, there are different platforms, If both are using same platform, they are the freaking same TECHNOLOGY.

Similar Bus Size = Same Technology

Oh Dear!! :hang:

It's the same freaking probe and with less advanced instruments compared to Chandrayaan since half of it was from overseas. So an improve methane sensor can mean game changing technology stopping China from launching? Use some common sense!!

Nothing stopped China, sooner you realize it, better for you.

You guys have a serious inferiority complex versus China and you like to brag to cover it. I have seen so many cases, it's like an innate quality.

But all I know that a Chinese is bumping Indian thread to prove that Chinese Martian Orbital Insertion Capability is better than Indians when nobody even talked about.

Please reread the debate and don't jump in half way. I am repeating myself for the third time, India can only go to Mars because of using American deep space comm and tracking. Without it, it will just be a probe and PSLV launcher, primitive by Chinese standards.

You can deny it as much as you can. But India is not geographically expanded from Far East to Europe and Americas. We used Spanish and Aussie trackers.

I am not talking about raw materials jose, I am talking about semicon fabs. You have NONE.

We have

Comparing space age chips and fruits. Genius indeed.

Was an example.
Not as pathetic guy who can call satellites same for same bus.

Show me the moon map PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Wasn't completed.
We had some pictures and data though (which's complete failure for you, worse than Yinghuo which failed to leave the planet!)
Well, here's Mars Atlas.
http://www.issdc.gov.in/docs/mr1/Mars-atlas-MOM.pdf

The precision of tracking and communications do not just depend on where it is located geographically, it also depends on how sensitive your receiver and transmitters are. You can send any signal to Mars, can you guarantee that signal is received on time and in the same quality as says one delivered to the Moon? That's the difference understand? Else China wouldn't be testing that technology on the Chang'e-2. If you don't do it yourself, India will forever be dependent on foreign networks. China also has a fleet of ships for tracking so don't think you are bestest again.

Show me the source about Chinese precision of tracking (and who told you India kept it's trackers off)?

Can you show me where we are bragging?

Start from your first post.

Who told you India is not launching humans 30 years later. That's the point right, IT'S FUTURE TENSE.

We are told by Government Agency that India will launch humans in less than 10 years and routinely get updates.
One more! LVM3 further modified.

Yah, do it first, after years of reversing russian cryo, you guys still fail. Amazingly competent. Something China did for decades.

Reverse engineering is something for which Chinese must not troll.
And for Russian engine, the "unreliable" GSLV was unreliable with Russian engine you know. Since the Indian was completed (and only first launch failed), it has been working well.

And hey, the engine we're talkin about here is SemiCryo, not cryo.

I think I won't stop you. Are you guys really so naive? Really? It never occurred to you that you actually needed to launch from Ariane because you can't launch it yourselves? I have never seen such crazy face saving attitude, It's like the dalit kid saying I am starving, but at least I am slim. LOL

If miserability to use Zenith, that even without trackers is justified.

India doesn't have HEAVY LAUNCHERS.

No, problem, will be there soon, though declared as Russian, French, American etc. immediately after launch.

Yah, I have a pen and a pineapple.

And I have the polished boots.

 

[Han Patriot]

We already proved we are right, the onus is on you to prove India and USA wrong on the poles of the moon not on Mare Imbrium which is nowhere near the poles.
No shit you didn't find water, if you are not on the poles.

And if this discovery you made was soooo significant you lot would have paraded it in all science circles and everyone would have been talking about it right now.
Just coz the Chinese said it later doesn't mean anything, go to the pole and then disprove what we said then we'll talk.
You findings are one of those nonsense findings that are quickly proven false in the next battery of tests.

Our probe was supposed to crash and it discovered water from 98 km altitude till impact not just on the split second.
You keep talking in circles and never really address NASA"s findings.


China mapped the moon's surface with 0 specialised equipment and hence never found water.
You were never trying to or simply couldn't.

LUT is small & inefficient, it does not analyze moisture content it is basically a telescope not a spectrometer, that can't even detect anything on the infrared spectrum and the whole of UV spectrum and you expect it to have decent findings on something as high as the exosphere of the moon near the poles.

LOL NASA had to crash a probe and we had to get as close as a few kilometers to discover water and chinese SOOPER DOOOPER equipment can make sane findings from 100s of miles away. Yeah sour grapes indeed.

LUT does not have a single specialized equipment to discover water and was made to discover planetary bodies not water concentration.
For all we know it found nothing and chinese being the loud mouth they are regurgitated nonsense and are now are not proclaiming "this discovery" everywhere for the fear of being proven wrong.
The horizon is getting in your way which is why you cannot detect or who knows if the LUT could if the plume was brought close to LUT, product being chinese and all.

You keep shouting radar, but it has no use in finding water.

I don't want you to believe 1 crash landing probe.
I want you to believe 2 crash landing probes by both ISRO and NASA.

Don't you worry there are 4-5 different tests coming in the next 5 years just for the purpose of expanding on the knowledge of lunar water, you have been proven wrong already as everyone is convinced that water has been found.
And when those tests bore results I know you will nowhere on that prticular thread.

Don't argue with me indy, argue with this guy. Btw, it's by the Russian Sputnik....

https://www.sott.net/article/324161...confirms-there-is-no-liquid-water-on-the-moon

I can't prove nor disprove whether there is water. You haven't even land on the moon and you are so sure there is water. I didn't say the instruments are accurate, that article said it was. Argue with him.....LOL

The debate over lunar water has picked up in recent years. Some recent missions have used neutron spectroscopy to analyze the soil and come back with mixed results.

Readings from Chang'e 3's more accurate optical telescope should put the matter to rest.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Don't argue with me indy, argue with this guy. Btw, it's by the Russian Sputnik....

https://www.sott.net/article/324161...confirms-there-is-no-liquid-water-on-the-moon

I can't prove nor disprove whether there is water. You haven't even land on the moon and you are so sure there is water. I didn't say the instruments are accurate, that article said it was. Argue with him.....LOL

Stick to naming craters that is literally all the path breaking findings you will ever make.
Coz clearly you lot can't make a decent finding.

Oh you poor child, of course there is no liquid water on the moon, that was implied everywhere, but don't you twist the whole thing around now, just to make some strawman argument.

ISRO and NASA didn't find any liquid water either, so do a bit of research and then get back with some of your desperately witty failure of a reply.

You have already been proven wrong, since you are so desperate for an internet victory that you will take the word of some hack job journalists over reputable space organizations who have concluded that there is infact water on moon and HAVE ALREADY DECIDED TO PUT IN 100s OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PROVING IT EVEN FURTHER IN THE NEXT 4 YEARS.

I can't prove nor disprove whether there is water.

What is that now?

Not what you said 10 comments ago?

You were quite clear on what you can or can't disprove then, what happened to all your over confident pseudo-knowledge? LOL

You haven't even land on the moon and you are so sure there is water. I didn't say the instruments are accurate, that article said it was. Argue with him.....LOL

FYI, you have landed on a small portion of the moon, WHICH IS NOWHERE NEAR THE WATER FINDINGS, your lander is stagnant and your rover can only move around in a certain area and that too which is not far away from your static lander, and after all that you haven't even landed on the right place on the moon to make any conclusive judgement either.
BTW, ISRO and NASA did land, albeit for just a little while we did land with impact probes containing advanced spectrometers which was the basis of our findings.
And don't you worry, we will land again and I know you won't be anywhere near that thread when we do.

Oh suddenly a news article has become more knowledgeable over science organisations, wow a journalist says a telescope that can barely do UV measurement is better than specialised spectroscopes that can do UV, infrared and much more.

Oh BTW LCROSS consisted of a total of nine instruments: one visible, two near infrared, and two mid-infrared cameras; one visible and two near-infrared spectrometers; and a photometer; 8 MORE THAN THE MEASLY LUT ON CHANG E 3.
MIP on Chandrayaan had a MASS SPECTROMETER and it got as close as 10 meters to the Shackleton crater before finding water .

How far was the LUT on Chng e 3 from the craters or to the poles?
OH THAT'S RIGHT IT WAS SOOO FAR AWAY THAT IT MADE ITS PSEUDO FINDINGS BASED ON THE EXOSPHERE ON THE MOON RATHER THAN ON THE POLAR SOIL. All hail china.

Argue with him.....LOL

I'll argue with some unknown presstitute when you have argued your case with NASA and ISRO.

Come back after you have won the argument.

 

[Han Patriot]

Stick to naming craters that is literally all the path breaking findings you will ever make.
Coz clearly you lot can't make a decent finding.

Oh you poor child, of course there is no liquid water on the moon, that was implied everywhere, but don't you twist the whole thing around now, just to make some strawman argument.

ISRO and NASA didn't find any liquid water either, so do a bit of research and then get back with some of your desperately witty failure of a reply.

You have already been proven wrong, since you are so desperate for an internet victory that you will take the word of some hack job journalists over reputable space organizations who have concluded that there is infact water on moon and HAVE ALREADY DECIDED TO PUT IN 100s OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PROVING IT EVEN FURTHER IN THE NEXT 4 YEARS.




What is that now?

Not what you said 10 comments ago?
View attachment 366323

You were quite clear on what you can or can't disprove then, what happened to all your over confident pseudo-knowledge? LOL



FYI, you have landed on a small portion of the moon, WHICH IS NOWHERE NEAR THE WATER FINDINGS, your lander is stagnant and your rover can only move around in a certain area and that too which is not far away from your static lander, and after all that you haven't even landed on the right place on the moon to make any conclusive judgement either.
BTW, ISRO and NASA did land, albeit for just a little while we did land with impact probes containing advanced spectrometers which was the basis of our findings.
And don't you worry, we will land again and I know you won't be anywhere near that thread when we do.

Oh suddenly a news article has become more knowledgeable over science organisations, wow a journalist says a telescope that can barely do UV measurement is better than specialised spectroscopes that can do UV, infrared and much more.

Oh BTW LCROSS consisted of a total of nine instruments: one visible, two near infrared, and two mid-infrared cameras; one visible and two near-infrared spectrometers; and a photometer; 8 MORE THAN THE MEASLY LUT ON CHANG E 3.
MIP on Chandrayaan had a MASS SPECTROMETER and it got as close as 10 meters to the Shackleton crater before finding water .

How far was the LUT on Chng e 3 from the craters or to the poles?
OH THAT'S RIGHT IT WAS SOOO FAR AWAY THAT IT MADE ITS PSEUDO FINDINGS BASED ON THE EXOSPHERE ON THE MOON RATHER THAN ON THE POLAR SOIL. All hail china.




I'll argue with some unknown presstitute when you have argued your case with NASA and ISRO.

Come back after you have won the argument.

SO WHERE IS THE ICE? CAN THE WORLD SEE THE SAMPLE? Right, you haven't even landed on the moon yet.

I mean seriously, other than the 'water' you found, what did India achieve? We created the most detailed moon map and mineral distribution map. We found a new rock type. We were the first to have a telescope on the moon observing a new phenomenon and were the first o use a ground penetrating radar to determine the composition.

I am an instrument engineer by training, a split second result from a spectrometer is nuts. Even you can use some common sense on this issue. If they were so sure they found water or ice or whatever, why do they need to send future missions again

Again, let me repeat myself until India can prove us wrong, I am sticking with someone who landed on the moon. I am in no capacity nor authority as a space scientist to approve or disprove it. That's what science is all about.

This is the typical India attitude for jumping on any little unproven achievement or something in the future tense. Nobody can prove the results of those satellites until you can get us a sample. Hell, half the instruments on board were from other countries and NASA. Our whole craft is Made in China. Until when do you still need to import?

GET US THAT WATER YOU FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Han Patriot]

Gardan ke niche ek lagega aur teri akal thikane aa jayegi.

History of this debate is that a mentally disturbed teenager dragged the Nirbhay missile thread to Indian Space Exploration Program.

Speaking Hindi to a Chinese, that sound more like a mentaly disturbed Indy. LOL.

My intellegent son, what would have happened if launch didn't fail? China would also be using DSN for tracking from different countries.

Yup, that's right and I would not be proud of it. What you don't get is that there is nothing to be proud of when you need to depend on foreign technology. If it was a case of geographic constraint, I can understand, but you need to understand this is not just about geographic constraint, it's how deep your DSN can track and control effectively.

The evolve stands for timely change in technology here. I never thought that you were this pathetic!

Means you have no problem in India using Spanish and Australian trackers now because India utilized under global corporation.

You can use whatever system you like. I am telling you there is nothing groundbreaking nor technological sophisticated vis a vis China. The whole argument is that China is only constrained by the DSN part. If India had no access to it, you can't reach Mars.

No, India has these facilities and labs in cities like Bengaluru and Chandigarh. India just doesn't do mass manufacturing for household products.

Tell what facility it is and at what micron it is fabricating. TELL ME!!
That's what all losers say. One Indy told me they need to spend a billion importing rifles because it is too low level to manufacture. The face saving mentality is really serious.

Not him, it's who you need a lesson, probably bunked the lectures in 9th standard.
The gravitational pull of earth increases from equator to poles and everybody knows this.

And what has it got to do with India saving money? So if your logic is correct, China should launch using Ariane and pay 100s of mil because it's better to launch from the equator? You can launch a rocket from anywhere my friend, the point is the weight and cost saving is not for you, it's for Ariane. Understand? How dumb can you guys get? Everybody knows you can launch with less from the equator understand, India is in the equator, why not you freaking launch from India. Right, because you can't understand!! That's the reason.

Similar Bus Size = Same Technology

Oh Dear!! :hang:

Similar bus type is almost similar technology. =). You do know the difference right. Mangalyaan was also reusing modular instruments from other older indian satellites platform, for the remote sensing portion, that's why the resolution was crappy.

Nothing stopped China, sooner you realize it, better for you.

I repeat againnnnnnn, the DSN, IT'S THE DSN. UNDERSTAND?

But all I know that a Chinese is bumping Indian thread to prove that Chinese Martian Orbital Insertion Capability is better than Indians when nobody even talked about.
You can deny it as much as you can. But India is not geographically expanded from Far East to Europe and Americas. We used Spanish and Aussie trackers.

Who is saying that? Funny, we haven't even go to Mars, how can anyone claim that....can you show us the proof?

Was an example.
Not as pathetic guy who can call satellites same for same bus.

It was based on the same bus as Chandrayaan and reusing older modular instruments developed for other satellites, so yes, nothing sophisticated.

Wasn't completed.
We had some pictures and data though (which's complete failure for you, worse than Yinghuo which failed to leave the planet!)
Well, here's Mars Atlas.
http://www.issdc.gov.in/docs/mr1/Mars-atlas-MOM.pdf

That's the point, you don't have a moon atlas, it was a failure! Nice Mars atlas with such low resolution, and is there any mineral map? I thought it was the super advanced mission, you mean you just went to Mars and snapped a low resolution map? I reckon even Chandra instruments were more advanced due to your foreign donors.

Show me the source about Chinese precision of tracking (and who told you India kept it's trackers off)?

Start from your first post.

I said China can't go to Mars because our DSN is not advanced enough, so what am I supposed to show you? And I repeat again you had to depend on the US for DSN to Mars. So until we get to Mars in 2020 on our own, it will prove we are more advanced.

We are told by Government Agency that India will launch humans in less than 10 years and routinely get updates.
One more! LVM3 further modified.

FUTURE TENSE AGAIN.

Reverse engineering is something for which Chinese must not troll.
And for Russian engine, the "unreliable" GSLV was unreliable with Russian engine you know. Since the Indian was completed (and only first launch failed), it has been working well.

Yah, and you needed to copy from the unreliable engine. LOL

And hey, the engine we're talkin about here is SemiCryo, not cryo.

I was talking about cryo, no idea why you switched. It was an open secret India bought the cryo from Russia and copied it. The same for your Arihant reactors.

If miserability to use Zenith, that even without trackers is justified.

No idea what you talking about.

And I have the polished boots.

Just because I am telling the truth, where ARE your boots?

 

[Indx-techs]

Speaking Hindi to a Chinese, that sound more like a mentaly disturbed Indy. LOL.

Wow, a Chinese identified the Hindi language.
Very interesting.

Yup, that's right and I would not be proud of it. What you don't get is that there is nothing to be proud of when you need to depend on foreign technology. If it was a case of geographic constraint, I can understand, but you need to understand this is not just about geographic constraint, it's how deep your DSN can track and control effectively.


You can use whatever system you like. I am telling you there is nothing groundbreaking nor technological sophisticated vis a vis China. The whole argument is that China is only constrained by the DSN part. If India had no access to it, you can't reach Mars.


That's what all losers say. One Indy told me they need to spend a billion importing rifles because it is too low level to manufacture. The face saving mentality is really serious.

And what has it got to do with India saving money? So if your logic is correct, China should launch using Ariane and pay 100s of mil because it's better to launch from the equator? You can launch a rocket from anywhere my friend, the point is the weight and cost saving is not for you, it's for Ariane. Understand? How dumb can you guys get? Everybody knows you can launch with less from the equator understand, India is in the equator, why not you freaking launch from India. Right, because you can't understand!! That's the reason.


Similar bus type is almost similar technology. =). You do know the difference right. Mangalyaan was also reusing modular instruments from other older indian satellites platform, for the remote sensing portion, that's why the resolution was crappy.


I repeat againnnnnnn, the DSN, IT'S THE DSN. UNDERSTAND?


Who is saying that? Funny, we haven't even go to Mars, how can anyone claim that....can you show us the proof?



It was based on the same bus as Chandrayaan and reusing older modular instruments developed for other satellites, so yes, nothing sophisticated.

That's the point, you don't have a moon atlas, it was a failure! Nice Mars atlas with such low resolution, and is there any mineral map? I thought it was the super advanced mission, you mean you just went to Mars and snapped a low resolution map? I reckon even Chandra instruments were more advanced due to your foreign donors.



I said China can't go to Mars because our DSN is not advanced enough, so what am I supposed to show you? And I repeat again you had to depend on the US for DSN to Mars. So until we get to Mars in 2020 on our own, it will prove we are more advanced.



FUTURE TENSE AGAIN.


Yah, and you needed to copy from the unreliable engine. LOL


I was talking about cryo, no idea why you switched. It was an open secret India bought the cryo from Russia and copied it. The same for your Arihant reactors.

No idea what you talking about.



Just because I am telling the truth, where is your boots?

1. If you know the gravitational law, sqaure of cross sectional radius of body is inversely proportional to force exerted by it. Earth looks slightly pressed from poles. So, the fuel consumed to throw it 36,000 km away from equator is far less than on poles. It's not our fault that you didn't attend your physics class.
2. You have repeatedly failed to prove any obstruction which stopped China from attempting Yinghuo. Fact is that, China went for Yinghuo. If it would have left orbit, China will be using others' DSN. And further, if your country is not expanded from Far East to the Central Europe like Soviet Union, you have to set up or use DSN's in other countries for sophisticated missions. If not now, then for deep space. By no way, credit can be given tracking server party.
3. Instrumental issue, Mgy-1 is any satellite but Cdy-1.

4. I was talking about cryo, no idea why you switched. It was an open secret India bought the cryo from Russia and copied it.

   Entire world also watched that Indian Rockets crashed with imported Russian cryos and flew well after replacement with Indian one.
   

5. That's the point, you don't have a moon atlas, it was a failure!

   Cdy-1 was designed for doing much more than just making Atlas. By no way, anyone can call it failed.

   Nice Mars atlas with such low resolution, and is there any mineral map? I thought it was the super advanced mission, you mean you just went to Mars and snapped a low resolution map?

   Moron, I think we have told you earlier that it was an experimental (TD) mission, nothing super duper, who asked you to even think?

   I reckon even Chandra instruments were more advanced

   that's why you are stupid.

   due to your foreign donors.

   Donors, donations are something suited for Pakistanis. After Americans, now they will ask you to "sell your weapons on your payment" to them. India pays for everything it gets.

 

[Indx-techs]

You keep counting...we will keep makingthngs which actually works.

Pretty sure about that?
Do you know what Pakistan producing just 39 technologies out of 94 means that?
It means that it imports rest 55.

Meanwhile, India produces 81 at home and imports just 13. At par with any other great power.

U forgot to mention pakistan

All I know that Babur uses NPO engine bought in bulk just after collapse of USSR and stored. Also uses various systems from south African Denel.

US, Russia, China, EU, India Japan are listed for global production of turbofans.
So, till Pakistan makes it's own turbofan engine, let's not compare with India.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

SO WHERE IS THE ICE? CAN THE WORLD SEE THE SAMPLE? Right, you haven't even landed on the moon yet.


I am an instrument engineer by training, a split second result from a spectrometer is nuts. Even you can use some common sense on this issue. If they were so sure they found water or ice or whatever, why do they need to send future missions again

Again, let me repeat myself until India can prove us wrong, I am sticking with someone who landed on the moon. I am in no capacity nor authority as a space scientist to approve or disprove it. That's what science is all about.

You want water? open your tap.

Again, water's existence has been proven and there's nothing you can do about it

LCROSS

This is the first infrared image ever taken of the far side of the Moon not unlike your shitty LUT which was NOWHERE NEAR the poles to make any sort of discovery on water.


The visible camera image showing the ejecta plume at about 20 seconds after impact.
Credits: NASA

Data from the down-looking near-infrared spectrometer. The red curve shows how the spectra would look with water vapor and ice added in appropriate amounts to match the dips in the observations. The yellow areas indicate the water absorption bands.
Credits: NASA


Data from the ultraviolet/visible spectrometer taken shortly after impact showing emission lines (indicated by arrows). These emission lines are diagnostic of compounds in the vapor/debris cloud.
Credits: NASA


LRO

Chandrayaan-1

Fig.1 A three colour composite of near-infrared reflected solar radiation for the lunar nearside illustrating the spatial extent of diagnostic absorption measured by M3 is shown above. Blue colour indicates 3 micron absorption associated with presence of OH/H2O. Red indicates absorption at 2 micron due to the presence of iron-bearing minerals. The green represent reflected brightness at 2.4 micron. [Ref: Coverpage of Science, 23 Oct 2009 issue]

Fig.2 The reflectance spectra obtained by M3 (A)shows reduction of reflectance beyond 2.7 micrometer, this when compared with model near infrared reflectance spectra of H2O and OH applicable for lunar comparisons (B), indicate the presence of water and OH bearing materials on the lunar surface.[Ref: C.M.Pieters et al. Science, 326, 568-572, 2009]

ChACE (Chandra’s Altitudinal Composition Explorer: Quadrupole Mass Spectrometer) onboard Moon Impact Probe (MIP) indicated possible presence of water molecules along with other molecular species in the lunar environment.

Fig.3 Sample mass spectrum corresponding to 97 km after the release of MIP highlighting the presence of H2O as the dominant species [Ref: Sridharan R et al. Planetary and Space Science (2010)]

I mean seriously, other than the 'water' you found, what did India achieve? We created the most detailed moon map and mineral distribution map. We found a new rock type. We were the first to have a telescope on the moon observing a new phenomenon and were the first o use a ground penetrating radar to determine the composition.

OH yawn, Chang'e 3 made the most insignificant "achievements" no one cares about.
That is why Chang e 3 got hardly any significant awards like Chandrayaan 1 did.

The last soft landing was done back in the 70s.
They used to find new stuff on the moon everytime some new mission was launched it is only natural someone would find something "NEW" if they landed a spacecraft. IT IS A VERY COMMON DISCOVERY NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT IT SINCE THE MOON IS HARDLY EXPLORED COMPLETELY YOU WILL OFCOURSE FIND NEW STUFF ON IT.
Getting a better map of the moon or new instruments on it right after we renewed interest in it hardly counts as achievements either.
Classic Chinese thinks quantity is better than quality. LOL



WE ON THE OTHER HAND ANSWERED A DECADES OLD QUESTION NO ONE WAS ABLE TO ANSWER FOR A LONG TIME.
Thereby opening the discussion of moonbases and human presence on the moon 1 more time.
What SIGNIFICANT DISCOVERY did you make

I am an instrument engineer by training, a split second result from a spectrometer is nuts. Even you can use some common sense on this issue.

Then you must be a shitty instrument engineer, a good enough spectrometer will do the required job in the speculated time.

If they were so sure they found water or ice or whatever, why do they need to send future missions again

Are you sure are an engineer? Are you sure how science works?
Should we do something half hearted just to console the egos of chinese people?
Have humans progressed so far just by learning only 1 facet of a particular discovery?
C'mon dude atleast try to riposte better.

If you can ask something so stupid, then even the idiots will know you are just here to troll.
Please at the least try to troll in a better fashion.

a split second result from a spectrometer

And again you are adamant on claiming that the spectrometers did the measurement in the split second, when it clearly didn't.
The impact probe on LCROSS which WAS LAUNCHED ONLY AFTER ISRO'S MIP SUCCESS, did NOT DO A SPLIT SECOND MEASUREMENT.

"On its final approach to the Moon, the Shepherding Spacecraft and Centaur separated October 9, 2009, at 01:50 UTC. The Centaur upper stage acted as a heavy impactor to create a debris plume that rose above the lunar surface. Following four minutes after impact of the Centaur upper stage, the Shepherding Spacecraft flew through this debris plume, collecting and relaying data back to Earth before it struck the lunar surface to produce a second debris plume.
Most of the material in the Centaur debris plume was expected to remain at (lunar) altitudes below 10 km (6 mi)"

And just as a precaution the LEND payload in LRO another craft by NASA too confirmed the findings.

Again, let me repeat myself until India can prove us wrong, I am sticking with someone who landed on the moon. I am in no capacity nor authority as a space scientist to approve or disprove it. That's what science is all about.

FALSE.
Again,the onus is on you the chinees to prove us wrong and not the other way round.
PROVE us wrong near the poles and then we'll talk.

Incomplete halfassed assessment with subpar instruments miles away from the findings don't mean zilch.
There are 3 missions that prove water on the moon while China had 0 specialised missions for water discovery and made INSIGNIFICANT findings ONLY to mooch off of our discovery.

Hell, half the instruments on board were from other countries and NASA. Our whole craft is Made in China. Until when do you still need to import?

And?
The MOST significant discovery was made thru the CHACE instrument by ISRO.
That is the only 1 that counted.
I know you are feeling the burn since the 100% wholly chinese couldn't do what 5% on an Indian spacecraft did.

Made in China and did nothing for science.

SO WHERE IS THE ICE? CAN THE WORLD SEE THE SAMPLE?

GET US THAT WATER YOU FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should we have to get the water from the moon to prove anything to you lot?
Isn't 2 respectable space organisation's word not enough?

Why don't you get that "NEW" rock that you discovered or is it just another faux discovery made by the chinese to beat their own chest.
For all we know it is the very same moon rocks that NASA brought back.
They too had basalts and illemenite in them, same as the one you lot found.

"SO WHERE IS THE ROCK? CAN THE WORLD SEE THE SAMPLE? "

GET US THAT ROCK YOU FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a 2 way street son.

 

[Han Patriot]

You want water? open your tap.

Again, water's existence has been proven and there's nothing you can do about it

LCROSS

This is the first infrared image ever taken of the far side of the Moon not unlike your shitty LUT which was NOWHERE NEAR the poles to make any sort of discovery on water.


The visible camera image showing the ejecta plume at about 20 seconds after impact.
Credits: NASA

Data from the down-looking near-infrared spectrometer. The red curve shows how the spectra would look with water vapor and ice added in appropriate amounts to match the dips in the observations. The yellow areas indicate the water absorption bands.
Credits: NASA


Data from the ultraviolet/visible spectrometer taken shortly after impact showing emission lines (indicated by arrows). These emission lines are diagnostic of compounds in the vapor/debris cloud.
Credits: NASA


LRO

Chandrayaan-1

Fig.1 A three colour composite of near-infrared reflected solar radiation for the lunar nearside illustrating the spatial extent of diagnostic absorption measured by M3 is shown above. Blue colour indicates 3 micron absorption associated with presence of OH/H2O. Red indicates absorption at 2 micron due to the presence of iron-bearing minerals. The green represent reflected brightness at 2.4 micron. [Ref: Coverpage of Science, 23 Oct 2009 issue]

Fig.2 The reflectance spectra obtained by M3 (A)shows reduction of reflectance beyond 2.7 micrometer, this when compared with model near infrared reflectance spectra of H2O and OH applicable for lunar comparisons (B), indicate the presence of water and OH bearing materials on the lunar surface.[Ref: C.M.Pieters et al. Science, 326, 568-572, 2009]

ChACE (Chandra’s Altitudinal Composition Explorer: Quadrupole Mass Spectrometer) onboard Moon Impact Probe (MIP) indicated possible presence of water molecules along with other molecular species in the lunar environment.

Fig.3 Sample mass spectrum corresponding to 97 km after the release of MIP highlighting the presence of H2O as the dominant species [Ref: Sridharan R et al. Planetary and Space Science (2010)]



OH yawn, Chang'e 3 made the most insignificant "achievements" no one cares about.
That is why Chang e 3 got hardly any significant awards like Chandrayaan 1 did.

The last soft landing was done back in the 70s.
They used to find new stuff on the moon everytime some new mission was launched it is only natural someone would find something "NEW" if they landed a spacecraft. IT IS A VERY COMMON DISCOVERY NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT IT SINCE THE MOON IS HARDLY EXPLORED COMPLETELY YOU WILL OFCOURSE FIND NEW STUFF ON IT.
Getting a better map of the moon or new instruments on it right after we renewed interest in it hardly counts as achievements either.
Classic Chinese thinks quantity is better than quality. LOL



WE ON THE OTHER HAND ANSWERED A DECADES OLD QUESTION NO ONE WAS ABLE TO ANSWER FOR A LONG TIME.
Thereby opening the discussion of moonbases and human presence on the moon 1 more time.
What SIGNIFICANT DISCOVERY did you make

Then you must be a shitty instrument engineer, a good enough spectrometer will do the required job in the speculated time.




Are you sure are an engineer? Are you sure how science works?
Should we do something half hearted just to console the egos of chinese people?
Have humans progressed so far just by learning only 1 facet of a particular discovery?
C'mon dude atleast try to riposte better.

If you can ask something so stupid, then even the idiots will know you are just here to troll.
Please at the least try to troll in a better fashion.



And again you are adamant on claiming that the spectrometers did the measurement in the split second, when it clearly didn't.
The impact probe on LCROSS which WAS LAUNCHED ONLY AFTER ISRO'S MIP SUCCESS, did NOT DO A SPLIT SECOND MEASUREMENT.

"On its final approach to the Moon, the Shepherding Spacecraft and Centaur separated October 9, 2009, at 01:50 UTC. The Centaur upper stage acted as a heavy impactor to create a debris plume that rose above the lunar surface. Following four minutes after impact of the Centaur upper stage, the Shepherding Spacecraft flew through this debris plume, collecting and relaying data back to Earth before it struck the lunar surface to produce a second debris plume.
Most of the material in the Centaur debris plume was expected to remain at (lunar) altitudes below 10 km (6 mi)"

And just as a precaution the LEND payload in LRO another craft by NASA too confirmed the findings.






FALSE.
Again,the onus is on you the chinees to prove us wrong and not the other way round.
PROVE us wrong near the poles and then we'll talk.

Incomplete halfassed assessment with subpar instruments miles away from the findings don't mean zilch.
There are 3 missions that prove water on the moon while China had 0 specialised missions for water discovery and made INSIGNIFICANT findings ONLY to mooch off of our discovery.





And?
The MOST significant discovery was made thru the CHACE instrument by ISRO.
That is the only 1 that counted.
I know you are feeling the burn since the 100% wholly chinese couldn't do what 5% on an Indian spacecraft did.

Made in China and did nothing for science.




Why should we have to get the water from the moon to prove anything to you lot?
Isn't 2 respectable space organisation's word not enough?

Why don't you get that "NEW" rock that you discovered or is it just another faux discovery made by the chinese to beat their own chest.
For all we know it is the very same moon rocks that NASA brought back.
They too had basalts and illemenite in them, same as the one you lot found.

"SO WHERE IS THE ROCK? CAN THE WORLD SEE THE SAMPLE? "

GET US THAT ROCK YOU FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a 2 way street son.

Let us all dissect this debate and analyze the facts

1) what all the mission above discovered was hydroxyl (OH), which may or may not be water. It could turn out as Magnesium Hydroxide all we know.

2) MIP did not discover water upon impact, the CHACE instrument on the MIP discovered "water" vapour 98km above moon surface while descending.

the CHACE payload in the lunar impactor (MIP) has directly detected water in its gaseous form along 14 degree E meridian from 45 degree N to 90 degree S latitude, with a latitudinal resolution of around 0.10 and altitudinal resolution of ~ 250 m from 98 km altitude till impact .

3) M3 instrument by NASA discovered (OH) signature by imaging spectrography.

3) LUT on Chang'e-3 used their UV instruments to detect the amount of hydroxyl on the moon atmosphere, and provided the most accurate reading ever of the "atmosphere". So what this means is, there could be ice if true but it was not due to the MIP discovery, but due to M3 sensors. MIP discovered vapor which LUT dispelled as not correct. If vapor was present as per MIP result, the vapor would clog the ultra sensitive LUT. The concern was highlighted before LUT was launched.

http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Water_on_Moon_is_bad_news_for_Chinas_lunar_telescope_999.html

So what is the conclusion:

1) There could be water but until we get a sample, it could beany hydroxyl bearing mineral like Magnesium Hydroxide, you can't drink that. GET US THAT ICE!!! I want it in my lemonade. LOL

2) The CHACE results are questionable since the LUT easily proved that there is no vapor in the atmosphere. So, the Indies were trying to claim credit to an American discovery if water ice is proven present, or maybe they were just bullshitting to claim success to a failed mission. Typical bragging indy...

Yup, we are sending a sample return mission, that's how to prove what we found. You need to land on the surface, not split second spectrography.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=2417814&CategoryId=13936