Junagadh: Another Chapter of Indian Atrocities | PKKH.tv

[somebozo]

time to wake up and smell the coffee..21st century brings much more important challenges than some junagarh..and in any event it was unfeasible waste of time.

 

[VCheng]

can't see much India bashing but only Pak and PKKH bashing on the thread,

the Instrument was designed to drop all princely states in India's bucket, but it got to India's throat when just two states used it against their want, the bottom line for India is 'grab all',

65 years don't make a wrong right, so put buds in your ears if you can't hear the truth.

All that is water under the bridge, past the bend, and far out into the sea.

After all, the Simla Agreement was agreed upon by both sides and is still in force, unless some steps are taken to revoke the treaty. That would be ill-advised, to say the least.

 

[sarthak]

All that is water under the bridge, past the bend, and far out into the sea.

After all, the Simla Agreement was agreed upon by both sides and is still in force, unless some steps are taken to revoke the treaty. That would be ill-advised, to say the least.

What's really disturbing is people trying to bring up non issues. Pakistan government hasn't raised an issue about Junagarh for several decades and officially accepts it as a part of India. The only land disputes that Pakistan has with India are Sir Creek , Siachen and Kashmir. Even these haven't been solved yet and probably won't be solved for a long long time. Arguing about Junagarh , hyderabad etc is just counterproductive and doesn't solve anythng.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

A request to my Pakistani brothers ,

We already have issue of Kashmir , Siachen and Sir Creek to deal with , quit trying to create new non-existent issues like these. It will better for both of our countries.

 

[timetravel]

A request to my Pakistani brothers ,

We already have issue of Kashmir , Siachen and Sir Creek to deal with , quit trying to create new non-existent issues like these. It will better for both of our countries.

hey a PDF discussion (or on any other forum) doesn't become a topic of issue between India and Pakistan... have a chilled Coke dude..

 

[Contrarian]

There is something very clear to understand.

There is a reason why Pakistani's keep trying to rewrite history, why even today there are efforts to bring in a falsified past. It helps the rulers/establishment of Pakistan focus people's attention away from the local issues of today that need solving in Pakistan. It helps them keep the gullible population focused towards India and blame away the establishment's failure on India.

The Pakistani populace today is so used to this that they find it hard to accept any other version than the story told to them. Its like taking away an addict's cocaine. So even if you keep putting in the truth, they will find the most absurd arguments to keep clinging to the story told to them and propagated by their establishment.

 

[arp2041]

A request to my Pakistani brothers ,

We already have issue of Kashmir , Siachen and Sir Creek to deal with , quit trying to create new non-existent issues like these. It will better for both of our countries.

Does there claiming of something as Dispute really makes it a Dispute??

Kashmir is very much a part of India & Siachin being part of Kashmir makes it no dispute issue.

We can discuss Sir Creek though

 

[INDIC]

Does there claiming of something as Dispute really makes it a Dispute??

Kashmir is very much a part of India & Siachin being part of Kashmir makes it no dispute issue.

We can discuss Sir Creek though

Sir Creek is also an artificial dispute made by Pakistan

 

[Tshering22]

Does there claiming of something as Dispute really makes it a Dispute??

Kashmir is very much a part of India & Siachin being part of Kashmir makes it no dispute issue.

We can discuss Sir Creek though

According to Pakistanis, entire country of ours is a dispute. It is only that they managed to get this far because our government kept cleaning their rears by needlessly bowing down to the "issue" of disputes created by Pakistanis in the hopes of peacefully engaging them.

Thank goodness that Gandhi was snuffed otherwise had Pakistan demanded J&K when he was alive, he'd have given them like an obedient servant.

There is actually no dispute with Pakistan but they created it because if they did not create India into an enemy, their country would have simply collapsed in 10 years of independence. To create and retain that "India will invade Muslims" they managed to survive this far as a country.

It is so sad that they cannot live peacefully like Austria and Germany do.

But well as they say, "Vinashkalaya vipreetabuddhi".

Usually people hope of change with a newer generation coming up but even that is not possible as the youngest generation in Pakistan is the most radicalized and it will only get worse until they become a taliban state.

The Pakistanis of 60s and before were much much more liberal and open-minded.

 

[timetravel]

But this gives an insight into whats going on in the mind of our neighbours.. They do say Kashmir is the only issue.

Now this should make it clear. Even giving away full Kashmir to Pakistan will not end the dislike for India or the support for the non state actors against India. Next they (the extremists and non state actors and their followers) will demand Junagadh, then whole Hyderabad. Then next there will be support for Pujabi separatists..

next will surely be the issue of Muslims in India North East, then the Muslims in UP. Next the Ayodhya Issue. Then Gujarat riots. and next and next.

So you see, Kashmir is the start of the issues between India and Pakistan. Giving Kashmir was and is never going to be the last issue between India and Pakistan.

The only way India could remain peacefully is by becoming strong economically continuously and keeping a strong deterrence against any military or terrorist miscalculation on part of Pakistan. Other then that there is some hope that Pakistan will realist the benefit of progress and give away its agenda of breaking apart India.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Junagarh even don't share border with Pakistan, it was bound to merge with India.
Pakistan's obsession with a Hindu majority area was a hunger for more land.

What about Kashmir...? India's obsession for Muslim majority area was a hunger for more land

 

[INDIC]

What about Kashmir...? India's obsession for Muslim majority area was a hunger for more land

Because Kashmir shares border with rest of India, we chose Secularism and millions of Muslims never went to Pakistan(Kashmiri Muslims are just 3-4% of Indian Muslims). But Kashmir became part of India because of Pakistan's blunder.

 

[RajputWarrior]

What about Kashmir...? India's obsession for Muslim majority area was a hunger for more land

We can all thank Jinnah for that

If it wasn't for his greed, Kashmir would probably be independent. However his decisions forced the maharaja to accede to India.

 

[jandk]

What about Kashmir...? India's obsession for Muslim majority area was a hunger for more land

If your fil.thy pashtun barbarians hadn't attacked and raped kashmiris like a bunch of barbarians, j&k would have been independent and who knows, maybe even had friendly relations with pakistan. you should come to kashmir and ask what they think of these tribals.
we hate these fil.thy bastards

 

[Joe Shearer]

But this gives an insight into whats going on in the mind of our neighbours.. They do say Kashmir is the only issue.

Now this should make it clear. Even giving away full Kashmir to Pakistan will not end the dislike for India or the support for the non state actors against India. Next they (the extremists and non state actors and their followers) will demand Junagadh, then whole Hyderabad. Then next there will be support for Pujabi separatists..

next will surely be the issue of Muslims in India North East, then the Muslims in UP. Next the Ayodhya Issue. Then Gujarat riots. and next and next.

So you see, Kashmir is the start of the issues between India and Pakistan. Giving Kashmir was and is never going to be the last issue between India and Pakistan.

The only way India could remain peacefully is by becoming strong economically continuously and keeping a strong deterrence against any military or terrorist miscalculation on part of Pakistan. Other then that there is some hope that Pakistan will realist the benefit of progress and give away its agenda of breaking apart India.

You need to qualify this statement.

The Pakistani liberal does not think this way. His number is growing; growing at a glacial pace, maybe, but clearly visible, very, very brave, willing to put their money where their mouths are, and have faced death and deadly assault. They want Kashmir to be negotiated out of the way, so that it is no longer a rallying cry for their own radicals and fundamentalists.

The Pakistani fauji, the normal version which probably constitutes 90% of the forces, does not think this way. They want Kashmir settled on their terms, but have always said so, and have displayed no aggressive instincts outside that; Sir Creek is negotiable, has been negotiated to a settlement, and except for provocative acts of terror, would have become history by now. Siachen and Kargil are inextricably intermingled in this section's mind, and it is not possible to convince them otherwise; they are sure that they were paying back one dastardly deed with another. As individuals, they might be disdainful of Indian loose administration that allows majoritarians to get away with more than they should, and as individuals, they might blush if an Indian within earshot clears his throat in a meaningful manner. A plebiscite in Kashmir, and reasonable parity with Indian forces, and they don't want anything more.

The normal mango Pakistani wants Kashmir back, plebiscite or no plebiscite. He has it firmly fixed in his mind that Kashmir 'belonged' to Pakistan, and no amount of logic or presentation of contrary facts will change their minds. But they will growl and grumble and heave half-a-brick towards the glass front of an Indian embassy or consular location, burn an effigy or ten, and then go home, warm with satisfaction at having fought the good fight. That's where it stops. Rioters mean nothing to India; we should let the Pakistan Police worry about that.

That leaves a sour, embittered, indoctrinated bunch who are cannon fodder for crazy fanatics who want blood, all the time, who will take to arms and sneak across the borders, who will kill civilians and state servants in cold blood, who are vulnerable to hate speeches delivered by nasty people. These are the ones for whom it is possible that Kashmir will not be the end of hatred.

It isn't as bad as we think, it is worse than we wish.