Jordan may be next "Arab spring" country in the American list.

[Icarus]

It will succeed in long run... may be the transition should be less bloody... kings should start a slow transfer of power process.

I disagree, the Western Model cannot work in the Middle East because it does not account for Tribal and Sectarian affinity. There needs to be a strong, central power figure to ensure national cohesion, otherwise these societies congregate around smaller centres of power and break up into smaller groups. Present day Iraq has been 'Liberated' for about a decade now and I feel no hesitation in saying that they are worse off than they started. It is now on the verge of a Sunni/Shia/Kurd division.

 

[BDforever]

what do you mean, democratic motto .. elaborate please

i mean democratic motto can be just cover up actual plan is to destabilize the country

 

[livingdead]

I disagree, the Western Model cannot work in the Middle East because it does not account for Tribal and Sectarian affinity. There needs to be a strong, central power figure to ensure national cohesion, otherwise these societies congregate around smaller centres of power and break up into smaller groups. Present day Iraq has been 'Liberated' for about a decade now and I feel no hesitation in saying that they are worse off than they started. It is now on the verge of a Sunni/Shia/Kurd division.

if 25 odd nations can stick together in India, why cant they do in iraq... people will learn to compromise, give and take, thats the only way to live in globalized world. Dont the same iraqis live in london or US among other people.
And if the differences is so much that they cant live together, they should separate, instead of being forced to live together.

iraq is better off now than under saddam for majority of people (shia + kurd).

i mean democratic motto can be just cover up actual plan is to destabilize the country

why is it that you want proper democracy in your country, and even happily asked foreign intervension (India?), but ME people are wrong when they do same. Ultimately in long run, they will decide what to do, like you guys kick us in the back.

 

[BDforever]

why is it that you want proper democracy in your country, and even happily asked foreign intervension (India?), but ME people are wrong when they do same. Ultimately in long run, they will decide what to do, like you guys kick us in the back.

when did we your intervention ?

 

[livingdead]

when did we your intervention ?

71 .. joy bangla..

 

[BDforever]

71 .. joy bangla..

ahaha actually it was your goal too and that was war

 

[livingdead]

ahahaha actually it was your goal too

my point being, even if it is a US/yahoodi conspiracy, ME people will benefit in long run, the same you you benefitted from yindoo conspiracy... take the benefit.. kick yindoo ***.. bdstyle..

 

[Icarus]

if 25 odd nations can stick together in India, why cant they do in iraq...

India has a stable economy and is a successful union, going secular means that there's no religious angle to the entire issue. As for ethnic cohesion, India has put in a significant effort in putting down ethnic struggles in the South, Kashmir, North-East and Punjab. It was a strong centre that kept them in place, exactly what these countries lack.

people will learn to compromise, give and take, thats the only way to live in globalized world. Dont the same iraqis live in london or US among other people.

Again, these countries don't have a leadership crisis. So these people work fine there.

And if the differences is so much that they cant live together, they should separate, instead of being forced to live together.

Separation in this part of the world is never pleasant.

iraq is better off now than under saddam for majority of people (shia + kurd).

Is it now? There's no security, abject poverty and instability. How is it better?

why is it that you want proper democracy in your country, and even happily asked foreign intervension (India?), but ME people are wrong when they do same. Ultimately in long run, they will decide what to do, like you guys kick us in the back.

1) I think that Democracy in it's present form is an unworkable solution for Pakistan. So that much for being hypo-critic.
2) When has Pakistan asked for Indian intervention?
3) Indeed they will decide however, it wouldn't kill them for us to discuss it over this forum, would it?

 

[Doritos11]

Iraq needs to deal with the dictator north then the problems will fade, democracy always brings such problems, weakness.
Syria will have a similar problem with Kurds.

 

[livingdead]

^^^ the last bit was for bdforever , not you.. @Icarus
leadership emerges from people, let iraq run for some time, they will compromise among themselves. The good thing about democracy is once you give people a stake, they wont try to run away from you.
India is not a special case, it is very much possible for multiple tribes to coexist. Because the change came via revolution or military force(sudden) in ME, everybody wanted to dominate...that will settle down and there wll be an equillibrium.

The religious angle is overplayed in ME (it also exists in India).

 

[Doritos11]

Yes, I know

But thats what a forum is for, otherwise we would talk in PM..

 

[livingdead]

Iraq needs to deal with the dictator north then the problems will fade, democracy always brings such problems, weakness.
Syria will have a similar problem with Kurds.

I presume you are a shia, do you think iraq is worse off now? What if you were sunni?

Yes, I know

But thats what a forum is for, otherwise we would talk in PM..

I was saying to icarus, that last para he replied to me was not aimed at him...

 

[KingMamba]

Which of the other "Springed" countries have you seen succeed?
Algeria has fallen to Islamists.
Libya has descended into Tribal War.
Egypt just saw a Coup last night.

Tunisia is doing fine.

 

[Doritos11]

I presume you are a shia, do you think iraq is worse off now? What if you were sunni?

Sunni

Worse off, like any country is after so many wars, Saddam created a mess which created the current situation.
Maybe in a couple of years things will change then I can judge.

Syria + Iraq will either have to give the land to Kurds or retake it.. by military action, they claim too many areas and cities, none will accept it so it will most likely result in war again.

 

[livingdead]

Sunni

Worse off, like any country is after so many wars, Saddam created a mess which created the current situation.
Maybe in a couple of years things will change then I can judge.

Syria + Iraq will either have to give the land to Kurds or retake it.. by military action, they claim too many areas and cities, none will accept it so it will most likely result in war again.

but you are happy with change, even if you paid heavy price, am I right? Most iraqis and libyans are happier after change, I believe.