Joint operation to kill Pak Taliban chief Baitullah

[Bull]

If brazen attacks in Punjab cant awake a sleeping Pakistan, i have little hope.

 

[S-2]

I see your report elsewhere from the Pakistan Observer.

That's helpful. Thanks.

 

[Omar1984]

Hmm........Bomb blasts, killings in the name of terror and people dying and crying... Look into it. Its ur own nation that is responsible for it. Using Jihad as a tool of state policy, ur own people are dying now.
If you want to blame some one.. blame ur govt, army and ISI and nobody else.

You will witness more of these if your establishment doesnt come out of their policy of using radical Islam to sponsor terror in Afghanistan and India.

Its very easy to sit in Calcutta talking about the situation in Pakistan without knowing a damn thing whats going on in Pakistan.

Never in the history of Pakistan did we see this much violence like we do today, never in the history of Pakistan did we see a single case of suicide bombings inside Pakistan until India made its prescence in Afghanistan, never in the history of Pakistan did we ever see cricket players being attacked.

All of this is happening just now, what would you expect for the Pakistanis to think about this situation. The first question comes to mind is why now and not before.

ISI, Pakistan army, and Pakistan government existed before and Pakistan was doing just fine...its when India came rushing into Afghanistan and set its consulates in Afghanistan, 3 of them on the Pak-Afghan border, then we see all these suffering, suicide bombings, death, and misery inside Pakistan.

 

[Bull]

Never in the history of Pakistan did we see this much violence like we do today, never in the history of Pakistan did we see a single case of suicide bombings inside Pakistan until India made its prescence in Afghanistan, never in the history of Pakistan did we ever see cricket players being attacked.

Never in the history did Pakistan turn against Terrorists thiugh under pressure from foreign govts. And thats the one and only reason, or else these terrorists would have been happy bombing in India and elsewhere. There targets have shifted and thats all.

 

[RescueRanger]

Congratulations, first of all, on your recent "Think Tank" appointment. Given your resume, it appears very deserving.

"As far as this NEO Taliban is concerned, they sit in Afghanistan and attack in Pakistan..."

I am interested in this assertion.

We've vast proxy armies sitting in Pakistan and attacking Afghanistan. Vast. They are led by notable commanders from past and present-Hekmatyar, Haqqani, Omar, Nazir, Bahadur, maybe even Mehsud and who knows whom else. Famous and notorious men.

Their camps spread like a fan all along FATA and have for years-some built by your own forces for their use at one time.

Can you tell me of similar men with similar forces operating from similar camps in Afghanistan and carrying similar ambitions for Pakistan? Where could these camps exist? Do they do so by permission of the U.S. Army and ISAF? Do these neo-taliban commanders coordinate their actions with men like Mehsud and Faizullah and his father-in-law?

I'd like to know much more please?

Thanks.

S2,

Thank you for helping change the direction of where this thread was headed. Well here is my assessment based on information that is openly available to us and i am sure (you) as well.

Firstly lets look at the groups operating in Pakistan (At least the ones we know off):


TEHRIK-E-TALIBAN
Leader: Baitullah Mehsud
An umbrella organization that embraces several Taliban-style groups, including the Movement for the Enforcement of Islamic Law, a violent affiliate of al-Qaida with close ties to its No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri. Declared war on Pakistan in 2007 after its military operation against religious students holding a siege at the Red Mosque in Islamabad. Strong in Bajaur tribal region. Blamed for most attacks in Pakistan, including the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

ANTI-MEHSUD TALIBAN GROUP
Leaders: Gul Bahadar, Maulvi Naseer
This group has promised not to attack Pakistan. Pakistan praises the group for killing hundreds of Uzbek al-Qaida fighters earlier this year, but Washington says the group sent fighters over the border into Afghanistan to attack U.S. forces. Washington wants Pakistan to shut Nasser down.

HAQQANI NETWORK
Leaders: The father and son team of Jalaluddin and Sirajuddin Haqqani
This group is considered by the U.S. as its biggest Taliban enemy in Afghanistan but does not fight Pakistani troops. Jalaluddin Haqqanihas a 40-year association with Pakistan's intelligence and once visited the White House, where he was welcomed by U.S. President Ronald Reagan. The fiery, red-bearded Haqqani fought against the former Soviet Union after its 1979 invasion of Afghanistan, then seized power with other "freedom fighters" in 1992 to U.S. Applause.

HEZB-E-ISLAMI
Leader: Gulbuddin Hekmatyar
This group is committed to fighting international and U.S. troops in Afghanistan, and took responsibility for the August ambush and killing of 10 French soldiers in eastern Afghanistan. However, Hekmatyar does not fight Pakistani troops and was a favored "freedom fighter" during the 1980s. Shamshatoo Refugee campin Pakistan's northwest continues to house Hekmatyar loyalists and Hezb-e-Islami security officers.

AL-QAIDA
Leader: Osama bin Laden
Opposed to both the U.S. and Pakistan, funds the Taliban in both countries. Trains suicide bombersand foments violence, which in turn has given the global terrorist network the room and the oxygen it needs to revive.

JIHADI ORGANIZATIONS
Leaders: Jaish-e-Mohammed, Harakat-ul-Mujahedeen and Lashkar-e-Tayyaba
All have close links to Pakistan's intelligence but have been slipping out of its control since the 2007 assault on the Red Mosque in the federal capital of Islamabad. The organizations have acted as proxies for the Pakistani military against India in the disputed state of Kashmir, but have more recently sided with Taliban-style tribal militants to fight Pakistani security forces in the border regions.

LASHKAR-E-JANGHVI
Leader: Mohammad Ajmal alias Akram Lahori
A violent sectarian group committed to killing Shiite Muslimsin Pakistan but also affiliated with Tehrik-e-Taliban. Less involved in fighting in Afghanistan, but at war with Pakistan and hunted down by the Pakistani military. Strong ties to al-Qaida, believed to be Tehrik-e-Taliban's greatest asset for providing suicide bombers.


Now lets look at our Number 1 Problem Mr. Mehsud, it is known that Mehsud has several spokespersons and rarely will appear in front of camera, in fact there is no known picture of him on file. Okay lets get moving... Lets look at Mehsud's play ground:

Bajur Region Map:



As you will see in the map Bajur shares very close proximity to SWAT and DIR, this has allowed Mehsud to support the fledgling Taliban movement in the area to the major threat it has become now.

That being said Dir has always been a hot bed of terrorism, most of the militants who fought the Russians moved to Dir and got married and settled down, Dir has always been a bit of a problem for Pakistan.

So we know why the logistics of these guys was so good during the recent conflict, they were able to receive support from the adjoining areas and did not need to shift equipment etc like the army which is what increased the attrition rate of our soldiers in the area.

Now coming back to Bajur and Mehsud, if we take a look at the map again (Bellow)



If you take a close look at the area circled in red, this area in Pakistan is Bajur province where Mr. Mehsud was last thought to be operating from, the small pass to the north west is called called Nawa Pass and is another crossing into Afghanistan, namely Kunar Province.

This pass is vast and very difficult to control, a trek and a river crossing are all that separate Afghanistan and Pakistan in this area and it is this area that was exploited during the surge of Taliban in Pakistan earlier last year.

We know that Maulvi Naseer has been fighting against Mehsud to gain back control of the area, we also know that both groups operate in Pakistan and Afghanistan, interestingly in recent days as we have seen a rise in violence in Kunar province: NewsRadio 1330 KNSS - Violence in Afghanistan Kunar Province

This is indicative of a turf war between the two groups, as both groups are Anti US but only 1 is Anti Pakistani, we also know that Bajur and Mohmand are under control of Pakistani Military again and political agents have been appointed in the region. Mehsud cannot risk travelling to SWAT for safe haven as Pakistani government assets although weakened do exist in the region such as the DCO, political agent etc...

So the only option that is a possibility for Mehsud ofering easy travel between Afghanistan and Pakistan is the region surrounding quetta, This assessment is supported by the growing presence of Taliban in quetta, openly brnadishing weapons and the remote salt mountains and tight narrow markets provide a perfect hiding place.

Mountains:





Why Quetta?

Quetta is very close to a major crossing from Afghanistan, this crossing is very pours and has been exploited by human traffickers since the early 70's shifthing Afghan's from Afghanistan to Quetta to Iran and then onward to Europe.

Please refer to map:



This assessment has been confirmed by the discovery of a large freight container in Quetta city with the corpses of some 40 Afghani refugees hoping to be smuggled into Iran via Quetta. : Pakistan finds 46 dead Afghans in container

This offers him perfect cover and protection... Rest assured, this is our war, we will find him and kill him and every last one of his demented puppies...

And lets face it S2, we are as nations both to blame. Sure the Pakistanis may have trained and supported these insects but the US hands aren't squeaky clean either...

 

[Omar1984]

Never in the history did Pakistan turn against Terrorists thiugh under pressure from foreign govts. And thats the one and only reason, or else these terrorists would have been happy bombing in India and elsewhere. There targets have shifted and thats all.

The only terrorists are the new Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) that suddenly emerged trying to confuse the world with the original Taliban.

The original Taliban never harmed Pakistan, this new taliban (TTP) lead by Baitullah Mehsud that suddenly emerges after India comes into Afghanistan have caused problems for Pakistan. A few weeks ago this TTP threatened anti-india groups in Pakistan, including LeT that you people blame for Mumbai attacks. LeT members told them sorry we cant hurt our own Pakistani people.

The original Taliban leader Mullah Omar told TTP Taliban to stop killing Pakistan army.

Its clear whose a threat to Pakistan, its TTP that is being funded by India and India is planning all these attacks on Pakistan from the Indian consulates in Afghanistan. The world doesn't call India, Pakistan's arch-rival for nothing.

 

[S-2]

I thought we had a recent peace arranged by Omar involving Bahadur, Mehsud, and Nazir-

Taliban Rivals Unite To Fight U.S. Troop Surge

Needless to say, despite Mehsud's commitment to the war in Afghanistan, he hasn't ceased his attacks within Pakistan.

As to Bajaur, all I can say there is that our forces now have sixteen platoons operating in Konar, mostly in Korengal. It has been our hottest zone for TICs (troops in contact) since the summer of 2007 if not earlier and remains so despite your operations in Bajaur. In particular, right along the border +/- 5km, there is little question but that militants are operating against both American and Pakistani forces.

You may or may not believe Bajaur is secure but we'd argue that the border stretches of those districts really aren't. It'll take more than one sweep through and must include a permanent presence by your forces eventually. I've little doubt that militants operating in the Korengal view the Bajaur border areas adjacent as critical to their survival and do all they can to assist those in Bajaur fighting against your army.

I don't believe that Mehsud is in the north nor do I believe him to be in Quetta. I suppose that I think his power base resides inside his tribal boundaries and while the recent agreement certainly suggests greater Mehsud-Omar coordination into Kandahar and north along the border, I wouldn't imagine that a physical proximity to one another is necessary to facilitate military operations.

Too, I'm sure that Bahadur, Nazir, and Mehsud still keep one eye peeled for each other.

 

[RescueRanger]

I thought we had a recent peace arranged by Omar involving Bahadur, Mehsud, and Nazir-

Taliban Rivals Unite To Fight U.S. Troop Surge

Needless to say, despite Mehsud's commitment to the war in Afghanistan, he hasn't ceased his attacks within Pakistan.

As to Bajaur, all I can say there is that our forces now have sixteen platoons operating in Konar, mostly in Korengal. It has been our hottest zone for TICs (troops in contact) since the summer of 2007 if not earlier and remains so despite your operations in Bajaur. In particular, right along the border +/- 5km, there is little question but that militants are operating against both American and Pakistani forces.

You may or may not believe Bajaur is secure but we'd argue that the border stretches of those districts really aren't. It'll take more than one sweep through and must include a permanent presence by your forces eventually. I've little doubt that militants operating in the Korengal view the Bajaur border areas adjacent as critical to their survival and do all they can to assist those in Bajaur fighting against your army.

I don't believe that Mehsud is in the north nor do I believe him to be in Quetta. I suppose that I think his power base resides inside his tribal boundaries and while the recent agreement certainly suggests greater Mehsud-Omar coordination into Kandahar and north along the border, I wouldn't imagine that a physical proximity to one another is necessary to facilitate military operations.

Too, I'm sure that Bahadur, Nazir, and Mehsud still keep one eye peeled for each other.

A very sound assessment of the situation.

 

[vkurian]

This bastard should be killed ASAP by Americans or Pakistanis.

Agree 100% with you.

The problem is when such forces attack Pakistan you have this response and when they attack India they are called strategic assets. Doesn’t this amount to double speak.

 

[pakomar]

Excellent kurien. U have summed up what i have been saying

What you are saying that attacks in Mumbai were done by Pakistan?
If that so either admit Indian navy and coast guard are useless and government should stop wasting money on useless navy or these attack done by Indian politician(inside job) to achieve votes.

 

[RescueRanger]

Yar, lets all pray we rid our world of this menace once and for all. I have felt too much pain and so have all those who have lost. Lets play to god that he may grant us the strenght to wipe this blemish of the face of our nation.

And to our Indian neighbours, please could you kindly refrain from cheap point scoring during these testing times...

 

[Patriot]

Agree 100% with you.

The problem is when such forces attack Pakistan you have this response and when they attack India they are called strategic assets. Doesn’t this amount to double speak.

Well, i agree Army should create a buffer zones for these elments from where they can enter pakistan and can attack India only.We might have forgotten 1971 but Army sure has not.

 

[RescueRanger]

Hey professor

Tell this **** friend of urs to not take cheap shots. Or else you will have to eat your words.

The more you try bloodshed in India. The more pakistan will bleed. You wont be able to sustain it as we indians have. You already have a crumbling economy and are on a world begging spree.

I am being polite with you, the least you can do is repay the favour in kind? No!

And what do you mean "eat my words"? Look i am not a mod, so hence i cannot tell people to do anything, it is their opnion. All i can say is, if you are nasty to someone well then then you will have the treatment returned to you in kind.

And stop calling me professor.

 

[Cheetah786]

^ Pakistan never had these problems before U.S. and India made their prescence in Afghanistan.

Dont blame the person for showing his anger, he has to live around people crying everyday because their loved ones were killed in some bomb blast.

I agree with him Pakistan was in a much better state before War on Terror. Pakistan sacraficed the most and is suffering the most because of this war.

yeah Man its all these indians and Americans that have spread that radical saudi style religion there

I remmeber going to kabul on wall street there and watching people trade heroin futures.

Suicide bombers R us this company stock went through the Roof and they were hirring like crazy funniest thing is after the first job employes never returned even to collect first paycheq so they were promised 70 virgins and freepass to heavens with that kind of benifits they needed more and more.

Company that copied AK47 were hirring like crazy to sell this in pakistan to stablize that country
Agricultural sector talk about amazing money making machine growing poppy and producing heroin delivering any where in the world on time freaking FED_EX cant do that but amazing heros of afghanistan did it.

And then these indians and Americans came i think reason Americans came As Afghanistans Military and economic prosperity threatned them so they attacked.

Madrasshas in pakistan afghanistan Supported BY house of saud money it wasnt actually saudies that were spending that money it was new dehli.Raw is spreading wahabisum through out the world and osama was there messenger silly me i didnt no now that most with there heads in sand have menage to convince me that it isnt saudies that have destroyed my country and given a bad name to islam arent the ones to blame for all this its washington(where you can practice your religion any religion freely and give obama a finger without being blown to peices or put in jail)and Newdehli.

So now we stick our head in the sand blame Americans for not killing meshud blame RAW for local Mud r ***.aha produce terrorist.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

yeah Man its all these indians and Americans that have spread that radical saudi style religion there

I remmeber going to kabul on wall street there and watching people trade heroin futures.

Suicide bombers R us this company stock went through the Roof and they were hirring like crazy funniest thing is after the first job employes never returned even to collect first paycheq so they were promised 70 virgins and freepass to heavens with that kind of benifits they needed more and more.

Company that copied AK47 were hirring like crazy to sell this in pakistan to stablize that country
Agricultural sector talk about amazing money making machine growing poppy and producing heroin delivering any where in the world on time freaking FED_EX cant do that but amazing heros of afghanistan did it.

And then these indians and Americans came i think reason Americans came As Afghanistans Military and economic prosperity threatned them so they attacked.

Madrasshas in pakistan afghanistan Supported BY house of saud money it wasnt actually saudies that were spending that money it was new dehli.Raw is spreading wahabisum through out the world and osama was there messenger silly me i didnt no now that most with there heads in sand have menage to convince me that it isnt saudies that have destroyed my country and given a bad name to islam arent the ones to blame for all this its washington(where you can practice your religion any religion freely and give obama a finger without being blown to peices or put in jail)and Newdehli.

So now we stick our head in the sand blame Americans for not killing meshud blame RAW for local Mud r ***.aha produce terrorist.

You are never going to improve, are you? For one last time, you need to provide evidence that India is masterminding these terror activities in Pakistan. If you have evidence, make it a global issue. Go to BBC, Sky news, whatever global media. Prove India is sponsoring terrorism. Make a dossier, send to all countries in the world.

Instead, you choose to fill this forum with your Anti-Indian rant, when even your government is not blaming India. I don't know if you understand it or not, you are making yourself look very pathetic. Your gross failure to fight terrorism has led you where you are now. Blaming India, US, Martians is NOT going to solve your problem.

EDIT: This is not directed against any person. This is intended for the members who tend to blame India for terrorist activities in Pakistan, without anything to back it up.