Joint military industry project for Arab world?

[Falcon29]

They simply cannot trust the US, and the US will make them dependent towards the US military technological ecosystem forever.

Without the US technological supplies, they cannot build anything on their own, that's how the US can keep controlling over these countries.

Japan is just a prime example, even the US lets them to amend the constitution, meanwhile they still realize that they are dependent to the US.

This is true. Nobody disagrees that the Arab world should move towards self-sufficiency. It will take time but will be well worth it.

Good luck with that-
The arabs as single entity could never work together- history tells us last time arabs together took a stand against the west their leaders were assasinated starting from Saudi Arabian King Faisal -

Israel/US/EU will do everything to thwart it. Which is why it's the struggle of the century. Arab leaders need to take this into consideration and recognize the importance of self-sufficiency to secure their nations/resources in the future.

 

[Desert Fox]

To be honest, even Pakistan is not an Arab country, but it has by far the strongest military industry foundation among all Muslim countries.

This joint development cannot leave Pakistan into oblivion.

Indonesia has started to make cooperation in defense with Saudi/Turkey/Iran....

The only thing getting in the way of a major project is the lack of any political will.

I believe the only immediate viable option would be to import from/cooperate with Muslim countries with already well established military industrial complexes like Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia (not sure how developed their indigenous industry is though), and Iran but that is out of the question due to Arab-Iran hatred.

Turkey and Pakistan have full blown indigenous Tank production. The Turks are leading in Naval industry and helicopter industry, they have good drones too. They also produce great armored cars and APC modifications. Pakistan leads in Missile technology, we produce a great deal of our own artillery and armed/unarmed drones. Pakistan also has expertise in Aeronautical field from joint projects with China, etc.

Obviously the long term goal will be to decrease the dependence on NATO countries for military hardware and Arab indigenization of their own Armed Forces equipment.

Now that i reread it, it all seems like a pipe dream, ain't gonna happen in my lifetime lol.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

This is true. Nobody disagrees that the Arab world should move towards self-sufficiency. It will take time but will be well worth it.

To cooperate with Pakistan, then you will skip decades of make up work.

Pakistan will help you guys to build up your own military technological ecosystem.

Iran is another option, but overall they are lagging behind Pakistan.

 

[Falcon29]

I believe the only immediate viable option would be to import from/cooperate with Muslim countries with already well established military industrial complexes like Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia (not sure how developed their indigenous industry is though), and Iran but that is out of the question due to Arab-Iran hatred.

Turkey and Pakistan have full blown indigenous Tank production. The Turks are leading in Naval industry and helicopter industry, they have good drones too. They also produce great armored cars and APC modifications. Pakistan leads in Missile technology, we produce a great deal of our own artillery and armed/unarmed drones. Pakistan also has expertise in Aeronautical field from joint projects with China, etc.

Obviously the long term goal will be to decrease the dependence on NATO countries for military hardware and Arab indigenization of their own Armed Forces equipment.

Now that i reread it, it all seems like a pipe dream, ain't gonna happen in my lifetime lol.

I agree that it requires cooperation with non-Arab nations. However, to understand what purpose this thread has. And what point I'm trying to make. Please check post #74.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I believe the only immediate viable option would be to import from/cooperate with Muslim countries with already well established military industrial complexes like Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia (not sure how developed their indigenous industry is though), and Iran but that is out of the question due to Arab-Iran hatred.

Turkey and Pakistan have full blown indigenous Tank production. The Turks are leading in Naval industry and helicopter industry, they have good drones too. They also produce great armored cars and APC modifications. Pakistan leads in Missile technology, we produce a great deal of our own artillery and armed/unarmed drones. Pakistan also has expertise in Aeronautical field from joint projects with China, etc.

Obviously the long term goal will be to decrease the dependence on NATO countries for military hardware and Arab indigenization of their own Armed Forces equipment.

Now that i reread it, it all seems like a pipe dream, ain't gonna happen in my lifetime lol.

As for the indigenization and independence from the US military technological ecosystem, Pakistan is number one and Iran is number two.

 

[Falcon29]

To cooperate with Pakistan, then you will skip decades of make up work.

Pakistan will help you guys to build up your own military technological ecosystem.

Iran is another option, but overall they are lagging behind Pakistan.

Being a Palestinian, I'm powerless when it comes to this situation even though I propose such ideas. It's up to the wealthier Arab nations to consider this.

They must allow it to materialize. Or else there is something seriously wrong in the Arab world.

 

[Frogman]

I am not a leader of an Arab nation so I don't know what to tell you about preferences. However, Arab leaders should start by mixing their inventory and beginning local development. I know Morsi wanted to do this with Egypt but was never given a chance.

Presidents or political figures can not interfere in the process of procurement or determine such a process. The armed force's of a nation has a body, organisation, or branch that determines the needs of said armed force and then builds a procurement strategy around that. These strategies could be long term procurement plans (for instance the modernisation of an entire navy fleet or air force) or short term plans (Urgent Operational Requirements). In Egypt the body responsible for this is the Organisation for Armament and Supply. Morsi simply had no control whatsoever over armament, nor did he propose any change in procurement policies.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Being a Palestinian, I'm powerless when it comes to this situation even though I propose such ideas. It's up to the wealthier Arab nations to consider this.

They must allow it to materialize. Or else there is something seriously wrong in the Arab world.

This will be a win-win situation.

As Pakistan will get more cash to boost its military technology, while the Arab countries will become independent from the US military ecosystem.

Now the US is trying to drift its focus from the Middle East, so it might be a perfect opportunity.

 

[Desert Fox]

This is true. Nobody disagrees that the Arab world should move towards self-sufficiency. It will take time but will be well worth it.



Israel/US/EU will do everything to thwart it. Which is why it's the struggle of the century. Arab leaders need to take this into consideration and recognize the importance of self-sufficiency to secure their nations/resources in the future.

I don't get what Pakistan has to do with a thread addressing the urgent need of some initiatives for this field in the Arab world. The important thing is initiatives right now. This can be expanded upon after initiatives are proposed and agreed upon.

Pakistan/Arab cooperation has been going well according to most members here in the economic/military field. I am Palestinian, so not too familiar with those specifics.

I agree that it requires cooperation with non-Arab nations. However, to understand what purpose this thread has. And what point I'm trying to make. Please check post #74.

I agree with you that this is an Arab thing, and it should be an Arab initiative.

Such a step will require a considerable amount of political influence and a lot of guts considering the amounts of $$$$$$ American and other NATO/Pro-Israeli corporations make from such deals with Arab countries and that too on the condition that they not use these weapons against Israel since they do require israeli lobby's approval for any such sales. The Americans won't like their traditional dependents to move away and will use their influence to maintain the status quo.

The point im making is that since the Arabs mostly still depend on Western weapons it would make more sense for them to cooperate/fund the developments of non-Arab Muslim countries in the meanwhile because they already have well established Military Industrial complexes, rather than fund NATO weapons industries, this way when Arab countries purchase Tanks from Turkey or Missiles from Pakistan at least they will be allowed to use them against anyone they want not to mention they would hold equal partnership in the developments/production of these weapons and therefore would be eligible to produce them in their own countries, thus setting up Military Industrial Complexes on their own soil.

I believe that is how Pakistan was able to set up its own Military Production with the cooperation of China. @ChineseTiger1986

As for the indigenization and independence from the US military technological ecosystem, Pakistan is number one and Iran is number two.

I guess you could say we're kinda almost there because we still use American Helis and F-16's in considerable numbers.

I hope we either go for Chinese WZ-10 or the Turkish T-129B and God Willing when we no longer need the F-16's we will replace them with Chinese 4.5 or 5th Gen fighters.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I guess you could say we're kinda almost there because we still use American Helis and F-16's in considerable numbers.

I hope we either go for Chinese WZ-10 or the Turkish T-129B and God Willing when we no longer need the F-16's we will replace them with Chinese 4.5 or 5th Gen fighters.

The JF-17 is a good start, and now Pakistan has even mastered the new 3D printing tech to build the aircraft.

Pakistan doesn't belong to other nation's ecosystem, it just absorbs the new technologies into its own ecosystem.

 

[Desert Fox]

This has nothing to do with nuclear weapons my friend.

The nuclear capability is the backbone of your military might.

Nukes can come in handy not as a weapon (although that is always a last resort option, as is in the case of israel's Samson Option), but they are effective as a deterrent, a kind of trump card with a psychological edge.

A enemy nation knowing that his enemy possesses Nukes will think multiple times before leading any sort of misadventure. That is the case in the indo-Pakistan conflict. The indians, despite have numerical and in some aspects even technological superiority over Pakistan don't dare to launch attacks on Pakistani soil due to our nuclear deterrent and multiple delivery systems. This was the case after the Mumbai attacks in which only empty threats were heard from indian Politicians and Generals despite the war hysteria in all of india because they knew better that another war between Pakistan and india would be the last war these two countries fight due to the possibility of Mutually Assured Destruction.

Im certain same would be the case if Arabs possessed nukes, israel would think multiple times before launching attacks inside Arab countries, which is why they can't digest having another nuclear power, in the ME's case a nuclear Iran, in their neighborhood.

 

[Babur Han]

Turkeys leading Military Electronic Producer Aselsan has established Joint Ventures in Jordan and UAE were Night Vision System are produced and know How are Transfered. There were also some know How Transfer to UAE for 122 & 300 mm MLRS Missiles !

For Joint Defence Production and Development in the arab World I see no real Chance in a forseeable Timeframe, some Countries have Conflicts with each other for Ideologic Reason or Terretorial like Morocco and Algeria ! I agree with the View if the States arrange with each other, we have to wait 10 Years before we see a joint Developed Weapon System will enter serial Production !


Aselsan Middle East
IGG Aselsan

 

[Skorpian]

Arabs have HUGE potential if they joined forces and actually worked together. The problem is, over the years, puppet leaders have ruled many Arab countries. And there has always been some sort of division between Arabs and for the past few years civil wars as well and inner divisions within the countries.
Could that change in the future? Possibly, and I really hope so. Will America and USA allow that though? Definitely not. They'll work on dividing Arabs as always and if that fails, some fake @ss excuse to sanction or even invade Arab countries.

 

[The SC]

Good luck with that-
The arabs as single entity could never work together- history tells us last time arabs together took a stand against the west their leaders were assassinated starting from Saudi Arabian King Faisal -

So Arab leaders should start thinking about dying as shahids, that will be a mark of leadership and will motivate their nations to unite. Since being scared for their own lives jeopardizes and paralyzes the movement of whole nations and their unity. They should all appoint vice-presidents and next in kin kings, so this matter of assassinations won't inhibit the aims and goals of their nations. They should do Jihad (ultimately to be ready for self-sacrifice, in case of assassination) and Ijtihad (in the sense of taking quick and sound decisions, and working on the best solutions to their nations problems, individually and in tandem with the other Arab nations, to find out what each one can bring to the others in a fruitful Union, than ACT) from the top. Their people will be motivated and will follow them for the realization of their aims.

 

[JonAsad]

So Arab leaders should start thinking about dying as shahids, that will be a mark of leadership and will motivate their nations to unite. Since being scared for their own lives jeopardizes and paralyzes the movement of whole nations and their unity. They should all appoint vice-presidents and next in kin kings, so this matter of assassinations won't inhibit the aims and goals of their nations. They should do Jihad (ultimately to be ready for self-sacrifice, in case of assassination) and Ijtihad (in the sense of taking quick and sound decisions, and working on the best solutions to their nations problems, individually and in tandem with the other Arab nations, to find out what each one can bring to the others in a fruitful Union, than ACT) from the top. Their people will be motivated and will follow them for the realization of their aims.

toooooooo much wishful thinking- -