Jinnah's grandson Nusli Wadia shocked by BJP's take

[salman nedian]

The responses here, from some really senior (and educated) members, shows what Indians in general, and the Parsi community in particular, have always believed ...... that this is still a seriously sore topic for you guys and still rankles deep within.

So be it!

All I can say in response is that what goes around, comes around.

Cheers, Doc

BJP expelled Jaswant Singh on writing few lines of appreciation for Quaid-e-Azam and you expect us to remain happy for the one who had damaged our national cause, our religious teachings and sentiments and her father’s wishes.

Unfair call from you I must say.

 

[vsdoc]

No one expects pakistanis to love Dina and her progeny buddy ..... though the reasons you state are your way at looking at things. I hope you realise that all kids are closer to their mothers (and the mother's side) than their fathers in terms of values, cultural and religious cues ..... especially in mixed religion marriages. Its a basic biological equation between mother and child and rules and regulations of formal religion and so-called societal norms have nothing to do with it, much as you guys would like to believe otherwise in this case.

Dina made her decision ...... live with it.

And dare I say, had Ruttie been alive, she would have made the same.

Cheers, Doc

 

[salman nedian]

No one expects pakistanis to love Dina and her progeny buddy ..... though the reasons you state are your way at looking at things. I hope you realise that all kids are closer to their mothers (and the mother's side) than their fathers in terms of values, cultural and religious cues ..... especially in mixed religion marriages.

Dina made her decision ...... live with it.

And dare I say, had Ruttie been alive, she would have made the same.

Cheers, Doc

I guess you are confused with the marriage of Quaid-e-azam with Ruttie Jinnah. She had converted to Muslim before marrying Mr.Jinnah so she was a Muslim too.

 

[vsdoc]

I guess you are confused with the marriage of Quaid-e-azam with Ruttie Jinnah. She had converted to Muslim before marrying Mr.Jinnah so she was a Muslim too.

Technically yes, if it keeps you happy and your religious pride intact.

You forgot to mention also that I was confused about her name being Ruttie and not Maryam.

Cheers, Doc

 

[All-Green]

The responses here, from some really senior (and educated) members, shows what Indians in general, and the Parsi community in particular, have always believed ...... that this is still a seriously sore topic for you guys and still rankles deep within.

So be it!

All I can say in response is that what goes around, comes around.

Cheers, Doc

On the contrary, the family rift of Quaid e Azam is not something of paramount importance and its consequences have no negative bearing on what he means to us...we are not in any state of denial if that is what you are trying to say.

You should realize that this whole matter does not overshadow the creation of Pakistan or Jinnah's quality as a man and a founding father of Pakistan since these things can happen in the best of families...

The issue is with your provocative grand conclusions and your uncalled for negative remarks regarding the whole matter and dragging Pakistan and two nation theory into this thread and trying to disprove all by using Dina's marriage decision and the subsequent rift created between father and daughter...
This family tragedy or rift (to each his own) is not something pleasant but it is something that can happen in any family, in any culture and in any country...still Jinnah stuck to his principles with a grim realization of what he had to do as man of his word...you think it is easy to part ways with a daughter you loved so much and just maintain a formal relationship?

You cannot rubbish the existence of Pakistan, the sooner you realize it the sooner Pakistan and India can co exist peacefully.

We really believe in this peaceful coexistence and some of it should be evident in this forum...we try our utmost to tolerate other views and engage in debate rather than mudslinging...but we certainly hope that a bid for tolerance and peace is not taken as sweeping the floor...if that is the case then the future is very bleak indeed...

 

[vsdoc]

^^^ If it does not matter and it does not rankle, i don't see how my pov here is either to be construed as provocative or mudslinging? Or is it that Indians cannot have strong views here without being labeled as provocateurs?

I mirror your other sentiments above about friendly coexistence between our countries and sincerely hope the process of dialogue we see here can be mirrored on other inter-nation fora as well.

Also, please realise from an Indian pov that no Indian is in denial about pakistan being a reality anymore. That said, no Indian will ever agree or make peace with the reasons why Pakistan had to come into being in the first place.

That is a reality you guys have to learn to live with, and the sooner you make peace with that the sooner our countries can coexist peacefully.

Cheers, Doc

 

[All-Green]

^^^ If it does not matter and it does not rankle, i don't see how my pov here is either to be construed as provocative or mudslinging? Or is it that Indians cannot have strong views here without being labeled as provocateurs?

I mirror your other sentiments above about friendly coexistence between our countries and sincerely hope the process of dialogue we see here can be mirrored on other inter-nation fora as well.

Also, please realise from an Indian pov that no Indian is in denial about pakistan being a reality anymore. That said, no Indian will ever agree or make peace with the reasons why Pakistan had to come into being in the first place.

That is a reality you guys have to learn to live with, and the sooner you make peace with that the sooner our countries can coexist peacefully.

Cheers, Doc

Provocation stemmed from the blood and water analogy and the floor sweeping reference...these are not strong views...rather something else...i can attach it all to the emotional drama that overrides every mind when we discuss Pakistan India history and relationship...however it is about time both the nations move forward by accepting that things happened for a reason and it is best to reconcile...

Making peace as you suggest is what is in my heart as well...but making peace usually means to accept something even if in the past you were not willing to accept it...that would imply that India too does not down rightly reject the Pakistan movement as that born out of some nefarious agenda...it was an evolution of thought which had its course defined by many key events and leaders on both sides of the current border...you can call it the choice of millions of people who now call themselves Pakistanis...and let us end it at that...
A choice which was different from the wishes of many but a choice to determine our future as a separate country...

Moving on would imply that we do not discuss it as a mistake but as a breakdown of trust...the same trust which we feel is something we want to restore as two friendly neighbors...rather than remaining as two hostile and suspicious countries...

Right or wrong?
...to you it is wrong...to me it is right...
we can lock horns till eternity...or we can forget the past, forgive all that we deemed unforgivable in the past... and call it a fresh beginning...where we shall accept each other as nations which have their differences but which have many things in common as well...

This is how one makes peace, it may be hard for all of us...but this is the only way we can do it...

 

[vsdoc]

I see your point All-Green and I agree it is time to move on ...... but it is difficult to do that if you don't let us.

Indians today are not obsessed by Pakistan (assuming for a moment that some time in the past we were - for argument sake). We are obsessed with making the best out of our own lives, and provide the best to our kids. Pakistan affects us only when there is a war or terrorism (home grown or form across the border) with links in Pakistan. Let's face it, what other ties do we have with pakistan anymore brother? We even play cricket in fits and starts.

Do we have cultural exchanges? Do our people intermingle? Can we buy stuff made by each other from each other's countries? What do we know of each other as PEOPLE? I would say very little .... coz what we know is based on what we read in the newspapers and on the Net and what we see on TV ..... and its not very good.

Say for argument sake Indians (my generation, the generation of our fathers, and our kids) make peace with the reason/s Pakistan had to happen, will your side make peace with the idea of a prosperous vibrant India with a well integrated Muslim population which did not see its future with those of you who went across?

I seriously doubt that.

Which brings me to my first statement .... we will move on .... if you let us.

Cheers, Doc

 

[MastanKhan]

^^^ If it does not matter and it does not rankle,
.

That is a reality you guys have to learn to live with, and the sooner you make peace with that the sooner our countries can coexist peacefully.

Say for argument sake Indians (my generation, the generation of our fathers, and our kids) make peace with the reason/s Pakistan had to happen, will your side make peace with the idea of a prosperous vibrant India with a well integrated Muslim population which did not see its future with those of you who went across?

I seriously doubt that.

Which brings me to my first statement .... we will move on .... if you let us.



Cheers, Doc

Hi,

That is a nice self centered self-righteous, ignorant and arrogant analysis of a problem---wonder why the problems of the nations are not solved that easily.

Wonderfull isn't it---" I am white---that is why I am right ".

 

[vsdoc]

I am not white buddy ..... I am Indian and a perfectly well done brown, thank you very much.

And a very happy Eid Mubarak to you too.

Cheers, Doc

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is early 90's--I am working at a beverly Hills car dealership---where customers came in and while you filled up the credit application and asked them what their monthly income was---you may hear 1---1.5---2 million----err yearly---no monthly---I got that sir----yessir.

So one day this older lady walks upto me and asks me a question---I saw the size of the diamond on her finger was as big as the nail on my little finger---oh my lord---anyway I started explaing to her about the car---she stated ' talk to me in english ' and I the paksiatni stated, I am ma'am---if you are having difficulty understanding me---it is not my problem' hehehe.

Well she got mad and left. I came back and narrated the story to my manager who was a white guy----he started laughing---said' she was not talking about your english---she was saying that whatever technical stuff you were talking about the car, she could not understand---she wanted you to talk to her in a simple language that a woman can understand'. Oh well---live and learn---live and learn.

So---I didn't mean that you were white----it is old american anology---white is right and black is wrong----. When a person wants to be right all the time---that is when you use the term---thankyou.

 

[vsdoc]

So---I didn't mean that you were white----it is old american anology---white is right and black is wrong----. When a person wants to be right all the time---that is when you use the term---thankyou.

I actually got that part Mastan saab ..... we desis still living in des are also now very conversant with American colloquialisms thanks to MTV and call centers sir.

And in case you didn't get it this time either, the above is my desi tongue firmly in my desi cheek as well saar.

And just to set the record straight, my out of character juvenile "sweeping the floor" remark had nothing to do with being churlish about neighbourly hospitality and decorum, but as a return volley to a senior member's dismissive (and equally if not more juvenile) chacha bhatija comment.

Thank you.

Cheers, Doc