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Jihadis flock to Pakistan from more diverse backgrounds

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Firstly, I agree with your last statement. That is something that will need some more time. In the interim the situation is not bright (unless you disagree with that). So what I said earlier about tribalism and its fallout needs to be tackled. How does one do that?


I agree. I mean Pakistan's current president and former Prime Minister are big feudal lords in their respective areas. It can't get any worse then that.

As Karan pointed out, Pakistan needs a major Land reform process to sort that out. Also law and order needs to be changed so that the police don't let feudal's get away for their crimes. As for the whole tribalism thing, the main problem is in FATA with that. I guess they could try to get rid of the FCR laws, implement the laws of Pakistan, and incorporate FATA back into Pakistan.
 
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I don't think that is binding enough. Where as I said Loyalty and Laws come from and go towards the tribe, which embassy can rule in sustained manner. :)

My point is you are trying to score browny points by making an indirect allegation to the ISI. There is no dearth of accusations between India and Pakistan. Almost each terrorist group I mentioned has specifically targeted Pakistanis at some point or the other so this is a weak accusation and more likely to be Indian sponsored if we are going down that slippery road in the first place. Haqqani, fine but here you can not blame ISI.

Furthermore I could very similarly allege that your police routinely tortures minorities, frames them on false charges, makes false accusations, takes part in injustices from personal experience with the people I have worked with in Sufferers Witness and other movements and what us Ansaris saw in Hyderabad. I do not say that believing it may be a select incident.
 
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I agree. I mean Pakistan's current president and former Prime Minister are big feudal lords in their respective areas. It can't get any worse then that.

As Karan pointed out, Pakistan needs a major Land reform process to sort that out. Also law and order needs to be changed so that the police don't let feudal's get away for their crimes. As for the whole tribalism thing, the main problem is in FATA with that. I guess they could try to get rid of the FCR laws, implement the laws of Pakistan, and incorporate FATA back into Pakistan.

Land reforms is one thing of course. But the underlined part is where the problem is greater. In 6 decades the writ of the Govt has not run in tribal areas. Now the Govt will have credibility issues if it seeks to enforce federal laws or the laws that are enforced in the rest of the country. That will require the Military to be involved in a much bigger way to lend a "back-bone" to governmental agencies in the area.

Then of course there is the 'coercion option' or military actions; but in a carefully calibrated and planned way.
 
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My point is you are trying to score browny points by making an indirect allegation to the CIA. There is no dearth of accusations between India and Pakistan. Almost each terrorist group I mentioned has specifically targeted Pakistanis at some point or the other so this is a weak accusation and more likely to be Indian sponsored if we are going down that slippery road in the first place. Haqqani, fine but here you can not blame ISI.

Furthermore I could very similarly allege that your police routinely tortures minorities, frames them on false charges, makes false accusations, takes part in injustices from personal experience with the people I have worked with in Sufferers Witness and other movements and what us Ansaris saw in Hyderabad. I do not say that believing it may be a select incident.

What are you on about? Where did the CIA come in? Are you talking about a new book?
 
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The issue here is our failure to ensure that we closed down the places from where they enter and escape. These guys, especially these foreign groups have caused massive damage to Pakistan. Particularly I would like to highlight the role of IMU and Jundullah in a great number of terrorism cases. Both have foreign origins.

What are you on about? Where did the CIA come in? Are you talking about a new book?

Mistake. Post corrected. Now you can reply if you wish.
Thoughts can jumble up if you are a researcher and spend 8 hours on your pc daily.
 
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I do not think that will apply to Mi-17 helos. They are cheap, robust and easy to maintain. The situation that is looming does not requre Helicopter Gunships, but Helos that quickly move troops in and out, while the existing Helos such as Cobras, Bells etc. recce the terrain ahead and around them. The movement of agile light forces can be done by Mi-17s and Pumas just equipped with MGs. No hi-fi stuff is required for insurgents. But surveillance and intelligence will have to be good. Most of all a will to act will be required both in the Higher Command and right down to the lowest echelons.
Any ideological confusion or hesitation based on any grounds will be simply too dangerous for PA.

Russia didnot even agreed to add Flir system to those helos and other such minor upgrades...
then how Russian can agree to provide such helos??
 
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@muse,
But right now things are not looking bright at all, rather (forgive me for sounding pessimistic) there is a visibly grim outlook. If these tribalistic elements gain the upper hand then the feudals, waderas etc will also be eventually be swept aside. Initially, the feudals will buy peace. But it cannot hold for very long. If the feudals want to survive they need the Govt (maybe we can call it another feudal) to survive. Pakistan's existential threat is swinging around to the west. I just feel if both these ruling elements do not link up; we will have to see the dominos toppling. Will not be pleasant at all.

No doubt about that - I do encourage you to look at the Agitation thread and the piece I quoted from the Tribune -- what also needs to be pointed out is that the Pakistan army is still playing politics, that is to say, that it is yet to realize that it's core competence is as a political player and not what it's competence should IE eliminating enemies of the state and nation.

I also note that as usual many Pakistanis make the excuse that the neglected peoples of the FATA are somehow, less than Pakistani and human, that is to say that the so called foundation of their existence is "lawlessness" and disloyalty - in other words it is that state that must bend their way and not the other way around - this is, as you may by now realize, the fundamental reason the tolerance of lawlessness gains ground in Pakistan.

Laws promote harmony, that is the purpose of the law - it must at all times be upheld through coercion, think this through, we do not allow the lawless to decide to conform and comply, we insist the lawless comply even at the pain of punishment, however, we also provide services so as to integrate citizenry within the social and legal fabric and assert that it is only through the law that all life and activity is to be regulated and allowed to flourish.
 
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Establishing Shariya in Islamabad...

Shatiyah isnot what they want...
it's a lame excuse that they want to establish shariyah...
1st law for this is that cooperate with gov and if u want a change do it with your voice not by picking up guns...
what typ of shariyah they want??
shariyah itself is peace...
and these are themselves biggest rules breaker of shariah..
they don't follow shariah themselves....
 
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That is a very likely scenario. Punjab is a future flare-point.

it's not most likely..
it's most unlikely...
they can't find any public support in Sindh or Punjab....
they can come here and are working here because of Pakistan's poor Police performance in here....
 
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So are Jihadis good thing or bad? I heard Jihad is a struggle to establish/enforce Islam. Pakistan is an Islamic country so why are soldiers of religion are considered a threat then?
 
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Islam NEVER needs enforcing - it is an invitation - but of course others have different ideas, they are insecure in themselves and seek to spread that insecurity
 
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Today I met a person who was lured into Afghan Jihad personally by an advisory OBL with broken promises and wasted youth! Sure as hell he regrets every decision he ever made in this regards! They were promised Russian houris and land in Afghanistan upon victory of the righteous!

Now that's not right!! Why only Russian houris... why not Indian/Indonesian/African/Bangladeshi houris???
 
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Islam NEVER needs enforcing - it is an invitation - but of course others have different ideas, they are insecure in themselves and seek to spread that insecurity

Muse - though i agree with you and I believe that should be the way but that is unfortunately we don't see many examples of that sort at all. You mentioned others in your post, just clarifying - Do you mean other religions?
 
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PESHAWAR: Despite the fact that new battlegrounds have sprung up in Africa and the Middle East, the number of foreign militant recruits smuggled into the north-western tribal belt of the country is increasing and they now come from more diverse countries.
As Washington and Nato prepare to end their combat mission in Afghanistan, the Taliban say their foreign allies are drawn to other conflicts, despite their support networks in a region outside direct government control.
“Al Qaeda is shifting its focus to Syria, Libya, Iraq or Mali,” one member of the Afghan Taliban told AFP on condition of anonymity.
Local officials estimate the number of Arab fighters has fallen by more than a half or two-thirds in the last 10 years.
In the last two years, some al Qaeda Arabs left to take part in the civil war in Syria and the uprising in Libya. Others migrated to Iraq in 2003, and some to Somalia and Yemen.
But Saifullah Khan Mehsud, executive director of the Fata Research Centre, says uprisings in the Middle East have had a minimal effect on the Arab presence in Pakistan.
“Arab fighters are not leaving in big numbers,” he told AFP. “They have been there for 30 years and it continues,” he added.
The number of fighters from other countries is also rising, say witnesses in Miramshah, North Waziristan — the district with the largest concentration of Taliban and al Qaeda fighters.
More nationalities, same problems
Most of the current crop are Turkmens and Uzbeks, numbering between 1,000 and 3,000 fighters, according to officials, who have fled authoritarian secular regimes in their home countries to set up their own groups.
However, US officials say covert drone strikes have played a huge role in destroying training camps and disrupting al Qaeda in Pakistan.
Although North Waziristan locals say the strikes kill more Taliban than al Qaeda operatives, they have condemned foreign fighters to a life underground.
“They are low profile, they dress like locals, they avoid big meetings and above all they move all the time,” a journalist told AFP.
Mehsud says that foreigners are coming from a more diverse number of countries than in years past.
“A few months ago, we even welcomed some (two or three) people from Fiji for the first time!” says the Taliban member who spoke with AFP.
“There are more nationalities because they face the same problems. They tell us that they feel left aside by capitalism and discriminated by unfair laws, like the Swiss one on minarets or the French one on hijabs,” he adds.
However, local and Western officials say the number of Western militants have fallen to dozens compared to the several hundreds a few years ago.

Jihadis flock to Pakistan from more diverse backgrounds – The Express Tribune

As long as Muslim governments keep becoming touts of USA this will happen we need to stop being tout of USA and talk to our own people
 
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