JF17 will be equal to F16 after upgrades

[313baberali]

Interview with Raana Tanveer Minister of Defense Productions

Khabrain Epaper

Key Points:
Rawalpindi Interview By Basharat Fazil Abbasi

News paper Roznama Khabrain.

Pictures by ILfat Shah

· So far 50 Jf-17 are given to Pakistan Air force

· JF17 jets meet all international standards

· Next year 50 more JF-17 Jets will be provided to PAF

· These 50 will be upgraded ones.

· These jets are co-produce by CHINA AND PAKISTAN

· But locally produce jets have domestic parts in majority.

· Inshahallah .Approximately 3rd Batch will be manufacture by domestic resources.

· Now Dual seat JF17 is also in production and we will upgrade it to that level that it will be equal to F-16 by performance.

· There is a big difference in the price of Jf17 and F-16

· He answer to a question that we are in talks with 5 to 7 countries for Jf-17 exports and soon will be exported

· We made a policy that next all defense deals will be on technology transfer basis so later we can produce locally

· In Pakistan , Weapons used by security forces ,against terrorists are Made in Pakistan.

· In 2013 when Present government came in power Karachi Shipyard was running in loss 14 trillion rupees . We work day and night and now it is in profit.

· On a question regarding Pakistan Ordinance Factory he replied POF is making small weapons which POF is exporting as well as fulfilling domestic requirements.

· Before these exports were of 50 Billion dollars which are now double. These weapons are exported to Germany, USA ,Europe and middle eastern countries

· Question regarding air craft industry he answer In karma We are manufacturing trainer aircrafts Mushaq, Super Mushaq .Karakoram 8 which were exported to 7 countries and with some countries we are in talks to get new orders.

· He told regarding Tank manufacturing that we are manufacturing Al-Khalid tanks and also exporting them.Alkhalid is International standard tank

· POF is fulfilling all demands of 4 provinces regarding APV vehicles and small weapons.

· 70 to 80 % requirement of FC and Rangers is also fulfilled domestically

· In weapon manufacturing all domestic products are used .which helps in saving foreign exchange

· He answer question regarding terrorism that Pak Army if successfully running operations all over the country ,due to which we can see peace in Karachi and Economic activity is increasing rapidly in city.

 

[Zarvan]

View attachment 298346
Interview with Raana Tanveer Minister of Defense Productions

Khabrain Epaper

View attachment 298347
Key Points:
Rawalpindi Interview By Basharat Fazil Abbasi

News paper Roznama Khabrain.

Pictures by ILfat Shah

· So far 50 Jf-17 are given to Pakistan Air force

· JF17 jets meet all international standards

· Next year 50 more JF-17 Jets will be provided to PAF

· These 50 will be upgraded ones.

· These jets are co-produce by CHINA AND PAKISTAN

· But locally produce jets have domestic parts in majority.

· Inshahallah .Approximately 3rd Batch will be manufacture by domestic resources.

· Now Dual seat JF17 is also in production and we will upgrade it to that level that it will be equal to F-16 by performance.

· There is a big difference in the price of Jf17 and F-16

· He answer to a question that we are in talks with 5 to 7 countries for Jf-17 exports and soon will be exported

· We made a policy that next all defense deals will be on technology transfer basis so later we can produce locally

· In Pakistan , Weapons used by security forces ,against terrorists are Made in Pakistan.

· In 2013 when Present government came in power Karachi Shipyard was running in loss 14 trillion rupees . We work day and night and now it is in profit.

· On a question regarding Pakistan Ordinance Factory he replied POF is making small weapons which POF is exporting as well as fulfilling domestic requirements.

· Before these exports were of 50 Billion dollars which are now double. These weapons are exported to Germany, USA ,Europe and middle eastern countries

· Question regarding air craft industry he answer In karma We are manufacturing trainer aircrafts Mushaq, Super Mushaq .Karakoram 8 which were exported to 7 countries and with some countries we are in talks to get new orders.

· He told regarding Tank manufacturing that we are manufacturing Al-Khalid tanks and also exporting them.Alkhalid is International standard tank

· POF is fulfilling all demands of 4 provinces regarding APV vehicles and small weapons.

· 70 to 80 % requirement of FC and Rangers is also fulfilled domestically

· In weapon manufacturing all domestic products are used .which helps in saving foreign exchange

· He answer question regarding terrorism that Pak Army if successfully running operations all over the country ,due to which we can see peace in Karachi and Economic activity is increasing rapidly in city.
View attachment 298345
View attachment 298348 View attachment 298349

Some points are not correct as for upgradation I think he is reffering to upgradation of Block I to BLOCK II standard

 

[Indus Pakistan]

No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't.No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't.

And if it is going to be equal to F-16 please give PAF a shout. Cancel buying anymore F-16s as that is waste of money.

 

[That Guy]

No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't.No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't.

And if it is going to be equal to F-16 please give PAF a shout. Cancel buying anymore F-16s as that is waste of money.

@Quwa if you can please clarify, when it comes to being equal to F-16s, I believe that they mean older model F-16s, which is true.

With upgrades, they'll come close to newer F-16s.

Why keep going for the F-16s? They're quicker and easier to get, and are proven combat vehicles. The JF-17 needs time and further development to be equal to modern day F-16s, but they eventually will be as capable as blk 52s, it's inevitable. Having said that, the JF-17 is only a proven platform when it comes to air to ground missions, air-air is still unproven. It's air-air capabilities are currently only good on paper, as these capabilities have not been tested in real combat.

 

[mingle]

Some points are not correct as for upgradation I think he is reffering to upgradation of Block I to BLOCK II standard

He probably talking about blk 3 sure it will be at par to f16 .

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Quwa if you can please clarify, when it comes to being equal to F-16s, I believe that they mean older model F-16s, which is true.

With upgrades, they'll come close to newer F-16s.

Why keep going for the F-16s? They're quicker and easier to get, and are proven combat vehicles. The JF-17 needs time and further development to be equal to modern day F-16s, but they eventually will be as capable as blk 52s, it's inevitable. Having said that, the JF-17 is only a proven platform when it comes to air to ground missions, air-air is still unproven. It's air-air capabilities are currently only good on paper, as these capabilities have not been tested in real combat.

I will be frank here. I know next to nothing about both fighters. If I was so inclined and had time I could read up and make a more informed conclusion. However that said base my lay observation on common sense. USA is the leading technology power. F-16 through evolution is product of that technology superpower. How can I imagine a country like Pakistan that cannot make television has the wherewithall to match USA even with Chinese help. It just smacks against reason.

In addition the PAF insists on buying more F-16s despite cash restraints. The F-16s appear to be deployed in the elite squadrons and provide the tip to the PAF spear. Whilst Thunder might evolve but so is the F-16. Yes, you might say Thunder is equal to F-16 (1984 version) but that is fraud. We are in 2016. Either use F-16 Blk 52 as benchmark or F-16V. I am pretty sure Blk-52s are well ahead of JF-Thunders. There is question of evolution but that is also applicable to F-16s also. USA has the lead when it comes to avionics. It is going to take some time before Chinese industry can mature and overtake USA. But that needs another 20-30 years.

 

[That Guy]

I will be frank here. I know next to nothing about both fighters. If I was so inclined and had time I could read up and make a more informed conclusion. However that said base my lay observation on common sense. USA is the leading technology power. F-16 through evolution is product of that technology superpower. How can I imagine a country like Pakistan that cannot make television has the wherewithall to match USA even with Chinese help. It just smacks against reason.

I don't get what's hard about it. The F-16 is pretty much finished it's evolutionary cycles (with the exception of very VERY small upgrades such as new missile integration and change in radars), so as long as JF-17 continues it's evolution, it's bound to catch up and surpass the F-16. Remember, even the F-16 had to start somewhere. People have this idea that some nations have technological superiority, and there is no way to beat them. That's the type of think that they beat out of you, when you go into an IT or computer sciences field.

As long as Pakistan continues funding the JF-17, it'll very easily catch up.

In addition the PAF insists on buying more F-16s despite cash restraints. The F-16s appear to be deployed in the elite squadrons and provide the tip to the PAF spear. Whilst Thunder might evolve but so is the F-16. Yes, you might say Thunder is equal to F-16 (1984 version) but that is fraud. We are in 2016. Either use F-16 Blk 52 as benchmark or F-16V. I am pretty sure Blk-52s are well ahead of JF-Thunders. There is question of evolution but that is also applicable to F-16s also. USA has the lead when it comes to avionics. It is going to take some time before Chinese industry can mature and overtake USA. But that needs another 20-30 years.

Actually the F-16s, despite what it may look like, are actually a cost saving measure. PAF already has tons of experience with them, they have maintenance facilities for them, and the US is going to be funding them through CSF, meaning that PAF will only be paying a very small amount.

Again, the thunder is Pakistan's first real attempt at building an aircraft, albeit with massive Chinese knowledge and engineering. There is this misconception that the older F-16s are worthless to Pakistan, that's not true. A majority of enemy fighters that PAF will face won't actually be advanced fighters like the Su-30, they'll be older mirages and migs. By the time India gets rid of them completely, PAF will already be buying a next generation fighter, and the JF-17 will have caught up to the F-16 completely.

20-30 years isn't that long, Pakistan will be in a far better position than it is in right now. Within 35 years (2050), Pakistan's economy will be the 15th largest in PPP, and 18-20th largest in nominal GDP, meaning it will join the trillion dollar club. By that time, money and expertise won't be much of an issue. The richer Pakistan gets, the less reliant it will be on foreign aid and assistance, it's knowledge bank will increase, and the brain drain will slow down.

My point is, don't stress out too much over this. PAF and Pakistan will be fine.

 

[thrilainmanila]

this is called patriotism, patriotism is the worst enemy of pakistanis, patriotism can make a person go blind against realities, ignore sensibilities, lead to backwardness, lead to injustice and cruelty and ignorance. lets be sensible and real here, if the above was really the case the PAF would never bother with the F-16s.

 

[Darth Vader]

50 planes in 1 war seems strange
100 billion dollars export of weapons
thunder will be built with domestic resources? Few other points
Article Seems BS to me

 

[Viper0011.]

· There is a big difference in the price of Jf17 and F-16
· Now Dual seat JF17 is also in production and we will upgrade it to that level that it will be equal to F-16 by performance.
· There is a big difference in the price of Jf17 and F-16

· He answer to a question that we are in talks with 5 to 7 countries for Jf-17 exports and soon will be exported

All the above makes sense and are logical next steps to advance a local jet into matching its modern alternatives. I've also been saying that since yesterday's display in KSA, expect few more orders and the exports will reach around 100-150 jets in the next few years.

Expect the JFT block III to have French avionics or weapons integrated with it (along with Russian BVR's), as the KSA will work with the French to get that done. And the Russians already want their stuff to work with the JFT so they can make additional few billions in selling missiles and avionics (call these accessories in a car, no matter who makes the car).

The reference to the upgraded F-16 means that the JFT won't come off Lockheed's assembly line obviously, but with the current discussions with the Russians and the Chinese, and future option of France and UK's tech making its way into the JFT (explained above), the JFT will have a much more modern next version with AESA, etc. So it would do everything that an F-16 does today (specially when the French avioincs are integrated). So good progress overall.

No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't.No it won't. No it won't. No it won't. No it won't.

And if it is going to be equal to F-16 please give PAF a shout. Cancel buying anymore F-16s as that is waste of money.

Are you actually questioning with facts, or just because the guy happens to be from NS's government (and looking at your avatar, you'd just have an issue with whatever he says, no matter how true or false that is?). Keep personal issues out of a fact based post please.

Explain to me that why can't a JFT block III not match the F-16. block 52? And I'll explain to you how it can. Read above for reference.

@Quwa if you can please clarify, when it comes to being equal to F-16s, I believe that they mean older model F-16s, which is true..

The baseline for the JFT block III is actually the F-16 bock 52!!!! Just like for the block I, the baseline was to get closer to 75-80% of the F-16 block 15 OCU.

I don't get what's hard about it. The F-16 is pretty much finished it's evolutionary cycles (with the exception of very VERY small upgrades such as new missile integration and change in radars), so as long as JF-17 continues it's evolution, it's bound to catch up and surpass the F-16.

Very balanced analysis, and true.

50 planes in 1 war seems strange
100 billion dollars export of weapons
thunder will be built with domestic resources? Few other points Article Seems BS to me

1) Out of the 50 JFT's, 25 will be produced in Pakistan (they are going to be achieving full capacity next year they used to mention back in the days).

2) The other 25 kits will be assembled in China (like its been going on till now as a joint production model), but since more labor has been trained and even new facilities have been put in, the assembly would take place in Pakistan and the new labor will get to learn this entire process, like the current techs have, years ago. So next year, it'll be 50. The goal is to close off the current assembly lines and re-calibrate for a block III standard manufacturing as it would be a different plane (capability wise, it'll go from light fighter to medium, similar to the F-16's).

3) The block I and II's will be sent over to the overhaul factories which were initially designed for F-7 and Mirages, for any ongoing maintenance and overhaul. Those techs have been trained on JFT block I and II maintenance.

This is a VERY well, thought out and managed program. Good work Pakistan

4) Its not 100 billion, its $ 10 billion. Which is not bad for a country who was exporting like $ 2-3 billion till like a few years ago. Slowly as the aviation and missile industry develops, this number will grow more.

5) The next biggest things for Pakistan include producing an internal heli platform (for both civil and military use), SAM and BVR missiles and Radar tech (setup AESA manufacturing internally). These three milestones are very critical to achieve and can double / triple up Pakistan's exports.

 

[Quwa]

Firstly, Pakistan isn't really paying much from its own pocket for the F-16s. The money is coming through past and future FMF and nothing else, local funds are going towards JF-17 and other programs.

Second, the JF-17 Block-III would possess a number of technological capabilities that will put it ahead of the PAF's Block-52+/MLU in some key respects. For example, the AESA radar would give the JF-17 enhanced resistence to EW, and HMD/S with HOBS AAM isn't something our F-16s would have (unless we get AIM-9X). It might not fully compete in terms of range and payload, but in terms of core technology, there's no reason why it couldn't be as good if not better than the F-16 Block-52+.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Explain to me that why can't a JFT block III not match the F-16. block 52? And I'll explain to you how it can. Read above for reference.

I merely reflect on PAF's decision to purchase F-16s. Since they have full facts and expertise I am forced to rely on their policy decisions. The fact that they decided to use precious resources to buy F-16s as opposed to investing in internal JF-Thunder project says something about the F-16 unless of course somebody is getting paid.

And my choice of political party has nothing to do with this subject. This is not a partisan matter. I am sure you also have preferances but chose not to let them inform your thinking.

 

[Viper0011.]

I merely reflect on PAF's decision to purchase F-16s. Since they have full facts and expertise I am forced to rely on their policy decisions. The fact that they decided to use precious resources to buy F-16s as opposed to investing in internal JF-Thunder project says something about the F-16 unless of course somebody is getting paid.

And my choice of political party has nothing to do with this subject. This is not a partisan matter. I am sure you also have preferances but chose not to let them inform your thinking.

The PAF's weapon of choice is the F-16 and it will be the case for years to come. F-16's has served over two dozen air-forces with serious combat proven track record, with impressive cost of ownership and advancements that come with the platform. I don't think there is another platform that offers this class, price range, capability and lower maintenance, yet scares off top line fighters that "others" have.

The JFT block III is still a few years out. So the PAF would need more F-16's, for both purposes, as the main front line fighter and as a stop gap too. But that doesn't stop the JFT to evolve. You may not be able to build a 100% replica of the F-16 block 52, but if within the cost of a new block 52 / 60, you could build 2-3 JFT's 90% capable. I think one can easily say that you've taken the JFT to the level of the F16's. Not to mention, in JFT's case, you have a LOT more weapon and munition choices compared to the F-16. So in many ways, looking at the flexibility and independence to operate and upgrade, one could logically conclude that the JFT's future capability for Pakistan, may even surpass that of the F-16 block 52.

Btw, thanks for keeping the politics out.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Nice article , however the JF17 thunder is maturing. It is a capable plane a modern fighter platform , and to some extent up to F16 already.

However it still have its own bench mark Block 3 that it has to attain , and that needs perhaps some time for it to mature, however what is important is the JF17 Engineering team do not sit on their Arses but come up with plans for future upgrade plans beyond Block 3

• The JF17 Block 4 could have a advance canopy design single structure
  
• Perhaps a longer modified nose for bigger radar
  
• There could be other pod integration
  
• More diverse integration (Missiles / EW suit variations)
  
• Data exchange with other Thunder or F16 Platform
• Getting rid of the under wing Fuel cylinders with a F16 like CFT
• Next Generation Avionics release
• Duel Rack based Missile carriage

 

[313baberali]

Some points are not correct as for upgradation I think he is reffering to upgradation of Block I to BLOCK II standard

??? As per urdu ,he talks specific dual seat latest models.which he said."issay itna upgrade kardia jaie ga k ya F16 k brabar hoga karkardigi main" these (2 seated) will be upgraded so they match f16 performance.thats what i get best .

The reference to the upgraded F-16 means that the JFT won't come off Lockheed's assembly line

Thanks for more detail,as some skip " By performance"