JF-17B Updates, News & Discussion

[airbus101]

A great info on the B model by Alan And AESA radar will be on B models

Military Flight Training MENA 2021

 

[Mrc]

It's obvious from day 1 that B will b aesa fighter and people just keep focusing on hinges that are of no consequence at all

 

[arjunk]

To settle this hinge stuff once and for all, I've calculated the approximate RCS that these hinges add to the JF-17.

First, the hinges themselves:
I calculated their length to be 37cm. (Pixel Counting)
I estimated their diameter to be 1.75cm, couldn't find any nice front facing photos of the Bravo.

Now, we will use the Su-30MKI's radar for this test. The Zhuk-AE is an X-band radar, meaning its wavelength can be between 3.75-2.5cm. I could not find much detailed information on it. I'll assume a wavelength of 2.5cm, to be on the safe side.

Using a basic formula to calculate the RCS of a cylinder,
We get an RCS of 3010.58824cm^2, or

0.301058824m^2 PER HINGE.

Multiply that by 3, and that's approximately 0.903m^2 added by these.

The JF-17B's RCS is classified but can be estimated to be 3-5m^2. This means these hinges could add on average cause an almost 25% increase in RCS if my calculations are right (at this point I'm hoping they're wrong) depending on the angle.

For reference, here's the RCS of some other planes:

In conclusion, these hinges add around the RCS of a B-1B and deserve even more hate than they're already getting.

 

[Bossman]

Plus why would PAF do a missile test during a bilateral exercise.

To shoot down a Chinese plane in live weapon exercise. Indian media is so smart.

 

[khanasifm]

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

To settle this hinge stuff once and for all, I've calculated the approximate RCS that these hinges add to the JF-17.

First, the hinges themselves:
I calculated their length to be 37cm. (Pixel Counting)
I estimated their diameter to be 1.75cm, couldn't find any nice front facing photos of the Bravo.

Now, we will use the Su-30MKI's radar for this test. The Zhuk-AE is an X-band radar, meaning its wavelength can be between 3.75-2.5cm. I could not find much detailed information on it. I'll assume a wavelength of 2.5cm, to be on the safe side.

Using a basic formula to calculate the RCS of a cylinder,
We get an RCS of 3010.58824cm^2, or

0.301058824m^2 PER HINGE.

Multiply that by 3, and that's approximately 0.903m^2 added by these.

The JF-17B's RCS is classified but can be estimated to be 3-5m^2. This means these hinges could add on average cause an almost 25% increase in RCS if my calculations are right (at this point I'm hoping they're wrong) depending on the angle.

For reference, here's the RCS of some other planes:
View attachment 716806

In conclusion, these hinges add around the RCS of a B-1B and deserve even more hate than they're already getting.

Are you expecting the 26 Bravos to be used as front-line fighters or for training pilots mainly?

First work this out then you can concentrate on RCS.

 

[Thorough Pro]

people who talk about hinges are absolute idiots.

It's obvious from day 1 that B will b aesa fighter and people just keep focusing on hinges that are of no consequence at all

 

[khanasifm]

A great info on the B model by Alan And AESA radar will be on B models

Military Flight Training MENA 2021

 

[Deino]

It's obvious from day 1 that B will b aesa fighter and people just keep focusing on hinges that are of no consequence at all

But all so far built B-models DON't have an AESA from all we know.

 

[The Raven]

It's safe to assume that the Block III will have the air-cooled KLJ-7A, in line with the B model.

 

[Deino]

It's safe to assume that the Block III will have the air-cooled KLJ-7A, in line with the B model.

But the point is ""will have" and not already have today. I wasn't able to spot the full video but this is a still from a video showing the JF-17Bs on the production line and ta least this one has clearly a redular JF-17B + KLJ-7 radar and not yet the "air-cooled KLJ-7A". Therefore it's safe to assume that the current JF-17B have the same regular KLJ-7, in line with the regular Block II single model.

 

[The Eagle]

But all so far built B-models DON't have an AESA from all we know.

Correct and eventually, the will have it soon. I will not ignore another side of the story that B models will have the AESA at the same time that Block-III will be operationalized in PAF.

 

[CriticalThought]

This is pure speculation on my part.

Just like young pilots are being trained on the F-35 in USAF, it seems PAF will be training fresh blood on the first versions of AESA equipped JF-17 trainers. This would be an indication that the AESA radars are a game changer in terms of tactics and thought processes, and the PAF finds it beneficial to train from scratch rather than having seasoned pilots unlearn and relearn entirely new tactics. This was first suggested by MastanKhan, so kudos to him IF this turns out to be true.

In the classical arrangement of pulse doppler radars backed by a more powerful AEWACS and an EW asset, each pilot is trained to process and filter through a deluge of information. As enemy planes/territory comes nearer, radar silence may be observed while relying on updates from the AEWACS. Pilots must also learn how to function under severe radar jamming.

In the new world of LPI AESA radars, the pilot would be trained to observe from a distance and select the best time for the kill. With the power to simulataneously jam the opponent while tracking him and sweeping the ground for threats, the pilot must learn how to dupe the enemy. The intention may be to break up a close formation, misdirect the opponent towards an area where PAF holds more advantage, or even to spend missiles on bogus targets. The pilot is not only a hunter who observes and kills, he is a puppeteer holding the enemy by electromagnetic threads and making him dance to his own tune.

If this is true, there might be a change in the induction criteria of PAF as well. Whereas today the emphasis is on the individual, in the new regime the emphasis could be on working with the team towards a common goal, quickly onboarding new concepts and new information, master new tools, and then use them to quickly solve complex challenges.

I am basing the above on my observation of game movies uploaded to YouTube. In new FPS games, players are presented with some breath taking technology, such as the ability to walk along walls, being invisible, jumping high into the air etc. One would expect that the player would start to use these mind boggling technologies to his advantage. But interestingly, what I have observed is that players lapse back to the old style of jump into the thick of the battle and fight through it with sheer brute force. Running at high speed through a raging battle, it takes a different mind to quickly analyze the scene, and reach the conclusion that my new capability of walking along walls will get me through more efficiently than fighting brute force. Yet, the player repeatedly chooses the brute force option.

This shows the need for training pilots from scratch on new technologies. It is much more easier to shape the mind according to the strengths of new technologies, rather than resetting the mind from old concepts. I predict young blood taking charge of latest technologies as experienced pilots provide stability and continuity. Interesting times ahead, for sure!

 

[The Raven]

But the point is ""will have" and not already have today. I wasn't able to spot the full video but this is a still from a video showing the JF-17Bs on the production line and ta least this one has clearly a redular JF-17B + KLJ-7 radar and not yet the "air-cooled KLJ-7A". Therefore it's safe to assume that the current JF-17B have the same regular KLJ-7, in line with the regular Block II single model.

View attachment 717076

Completely agree Deino, I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, I've posted before how I think the PAF should have made the B model to Block III specs. My point was, that if Alan Warnes is right about the air-cooled version of KLJ-7A in the B model, then it's likely to be in the Block III, given the fact that we have had conflicting details on the AESA type for the Block III.

 

[araz]

Completely agree Deino, I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, I've posted before how I think the PAF should have made the B model to Block III specs. My point was, that if Alan Warnes is right about the air-cooled version of KLJ-7A in the B model, then it's likely to be in the Block III, given the fact that we have had conflicting details on the AESA type for the Block III.

Another interesting thought which is an offshoot of what you have stated is that the PAF once satisfied can change the PD radars on block 2 to air cooled AESA radar. However what needs to be discussed is what will be the maintenance problems of 2 different AESA radars for PAF.
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