JF-17 Thunder programme has achieved important milestones: Air Chief

[Imran Khan]

Milestone kya hai?

ghanta

 

[graphican]

ghanta

So it is better than an hour? If it is so, 51% of world's female population and 1% gay population would be overjoyed to know that.

 

[batmannow]

Sir it is not just sanctions fee (to some extent -- not happy with the power plant situation) but performance is better than the fleet it is replacing. PAF is doing a lot of mix and match with Mirage III, IV, F-7, and F-7PG.

With the intro of JFT, mix and match will be drastically reduced, training will be easier, logistics will be more economical, a single platform will do which was being done with four different types of platforms!!

What a logic , if its like that why don't we just put JFT as one & the last platform in PAF ?
It would be ridiculous even to think that JFT will be able to become super then all of the worlds major fighter jets & in different situations , its enough that its just giving us the force multipilyers & is sufficient within our domestic needs ?
No doubt its has covered a lot of ground , but as effective fighting flying force we need , mix of different fighter jets for different situations .

 

[MastanKhan]

What a logic , if its like that why don't we just put JFT as one & the last platform in PAF ?
It would be ridiculous even to think that JFT will be able to become super then all of the worlds major fighter jets & in different situations , its enough that its just giving us the force multipilyers & is sufficient within our domestic needs ?
No doubt its has covered a lot of ground , but as effective fighting flying force we need , mix of different fighter jets for different situations .

Hi,

Well--it is a force multiplier from the bottom upwards----.

If paf had procured the 72 BLK 52s in 2005----this aircraft would be the perfect fill in needed to replace all those aircraft---.

The problem we are seeing is the large imbalance of power between the top tier and the bottom tier----. For tht reason you are concerned and I am concerned as so many others who do not kow tow to the ideology of the paf.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Sir it is not just sanctions fee (to some extent -- not happy with the power plant situation) but performance is better than the fleet it is replacing. PAF is doing a lot of mix and match with Mirage III, IV, F-7, and F-7PG.

With the intro of JFT, mix and match will be drastically reduced, training will be easier, logistics will be more economical, a single platform will do which was being done with four different types of platforms!!

The mindset of easy is making PAF less effective than it should be, who said that defending skies can be easy in Pakistan. If it easy then we are missing something, I am starting to get worried that if this is how the decision makers think in PAF. Hope this policy/state of mind changes. I do appreciate the financial constraints. As a ground support and Maritime role my money is on Mirage V with a lot of constraints yet better than JF17. Unfortunately the aircrafts are old and JF 17 maybe just able to do that role but I am very uncertain that they will be able to fill that role any time soon. It is good to have JF17 but thinking it can do everything is downright wishful thinking. Now I am saying this as an outsider with limited knowledge.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Well, to all those who are saying JF-17 Thunder is not that good, has no place in modern warfare or cannot be compared to any of those Gripen, SUs and F-18 etc ... I would suggest them to take a look at the first ever jets manufactured by those respective countries.

 

[untitled]

Gripen, SUs and F-18 etc ... I would suggest them to take a look at the first ever jets manufactured by those respective countries.

Not a good example Bro ......the JF-17 wont be fighting the MiG-1, Saab 29 Tunnan or the Wright brothers Flyer 1

 

[Humble Analyst]

Well, to all those who are saying JF-17 Thunder is not that good, has no place in modern warfare or cannot be compared to any of those Gripen, SUs and F-18 etc ... I would suggest them to take a look at the first ever jets manufactured by those respective countries.

JF17 will evolve but can do so much as a single engine light aircraft.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

AoA
PAF is the only Airforce in the world that makes aircrafts.
Regards

Pakistan aeronautical complex makes aircraft

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

JF17 will evolve but can do so much as a single engine light aircraft.

Yeah, but I wanted to elaborate that this is for sake Pakistan's first ever manufactured jet, there will be improvements.

Not a good example Bro ......the JF-17 wont be fighting the MiG-1, Saab 29 Tunnan or the Wright brothers Flyer 1

Did I ever say that? What I meant is this is Pakistan's first ever manufactured jet, there will be improvements, mega improvements in the future and this JF-17 is still capable to fight the modern jets.

 

[untitled]

Did I ever say that? What I meant is this is Pakistan's first ever manufactured jet, there will be improvements, mega improvements in the futur

Lets all hope and pray that is the case. But if you look at the history of aviation in the last 50 years many corporations and countries are no where to be seen. Even counteries like Argentina, Egypt and Poland had a crack at making fighter jets but you don't see front line fighters made by these countries in modern times. If we want to be seen as country that can make a top class front line fighter then the road for us long and bumpy. Inshallah we will get there

 

[silent hawk]

Pakistan aeronautical complex makes aircraft

AoA
Headed by an Air Marshal under CAS
Regards

 

[mourning sage]

Hi,

Well--it is a force multiplier from the bottom upwards----.

If paf had procured the 72 BLK 52s in 2005----this aircraft would be the perfect fill in needed to replace all those aircraft---.

The problem we are seeing is the large imbalance of power between the top tier and the bottom tier----. For tht reason you are concerned and I am concerned as so many others who do not kow tow to the ideology of the paf.

I've been following you for some time now and I agree with you on some matters if not all of them. My question is, shouldn't a nation invest in reinventing the wheel? it takes time, money and effort, yes but this single investment will bear fruits for decades. The knowledge gained from personal experience is far better than flying a ready made jet and/or assembling and maintaining it. I am a mechanical engineering student, and i specialize in design and analysis of machinery, from experience i can assure you that the knowledge gained from even the projects that do not have much commercial value or potency, one can learn and apply that knowledge to better potent machinery.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

What a logic , if its like that why don't we just put JFT as one & the last platform in PAF ?
It would be ridiculous even to think that JFT will be able to become super then all of the worlds major fighter jets & in different situations , its enough that its just giving us the force multipilyers & is sufficient within our domestic needs ?
No doubt its has covered a lot of ground , but as effective fighting flying force we need , mix of different fighter jets for different situations .

My friend who is saying that it is a super duper fighter of the world? I am just stating the facts here -- it is a multi role fighter designed to replace fighter interceptors, strike fighters etc. in PAF which are now nearing the end of their designed lives and or any SLEP programs, except for the F-7PG and some later date ROSE upgrades!!!

Given the sanctions, reluctance of a lot of nations to sell us top line fighters in numbers, and paucity of funds, this is the best we could do!!!

We r not China, USA or India for that matter to afford mission specific aircraft! Don't have money, period. Multi Role is the way forward!! Even countries like USA are trying to narrow down number of operating types to not more than couple of front line fighters. USN at one time was flying F-14's, Phantoms, Corsairs, Skyhawks from the same deck!!!! Over a period of time and in a planned transition, a/c types were brought down now to one type F/A-18!! Btw mission has not changed!

We have F-7P/MP Airguard/Skybolt for fighter interceptor role -- nearing end of their designed lives and in essence obsolete with no capacity for upgrades after Chinese HMCS and Grifo MK II Radars etc. Optimized for Dog fighting. Prone to increasing number of crashes (44 crashed or written off! out of a supplied fleet of 129! All 6 squadrons operating the type(s) had air crashes -- so there is no maint. or training issue. Supplied 1986 to 1993)

We have F-7PG for Air Superiority role. Higher altitude performance is better then the prev. version of F-7's and with Grifo - MG radar. (6 crashed out of 57 supplied between 2001 and 2003)

Mirage III/V: Interdiction, night strike and CAS (78 a/c crashed or written off out of a total fleet of 201 -- 89 III's and 112 V's, supplied between 1967 and 2010 -- all the III's supplied after 1977 were second hand. 96 a/c were new built. Maritime strike element 32 a/c V PA-3 n DPA-2 were supplied new built between 1980 n 1983).

Successive upgrades of Mirages kept the planes on the flight line.

ROSE I (1995) included upgrades: HuD, HOTAS, FLIR, GPS, INS, MFD, SAGEM Nav/Attack sys., RWR/ECM suit, radar Altimeter and Grifo M3 radar. 45 Aust. Mirage III were upgraded to ROSE I configuration. The biggest take away from this upgrade was Look Down/Shoot Down/BVR Capability.

ROSE II: 20 ex French birds (1999), Mirage 5's were retro fitted for night time strike at low level. The retrofit included FLIR, options for advanced ECM pods, Laser rangefinder, Thermal Imaging Sensor, RWR/Counter Measures, GPS etc. Take away: Extremely Low Level night Strike.

ROSE III: 14 Ex French (Mirage VI -- 2002) and later ex Lebanese (Mirage III -- 2004) A/c were converted. Basically repeat of ROSE II but done in PAC. Take away: Precision/surgical Night Strike.

Now my friend what is lacking in JFT that these birds have and JFT does not or is not planned to? I'm no big fan of JFT but I would certainly give it time to mature as we gave time to Mirage (1967 to 2004) or for that matter F-7 to evolve to a definitive version that suited us!

Stocking of spares and sub assemblies of four different a/c types n sub types, three different types of engines (SENECMA Atar 9C, SAEF WP-7B(MB) -- F-7PM; WP-13F in F-7PG) and literally hundreds of thousands of line times multiplied by four, with two very different inventory, ordering, stocking with its own logistics SOP systems is a headache. French and Chinese systems are different. Computerized Inventory Mgmt. Systems are totally different with a completely separate methodology to inspect, replace,order, stock (MSO), with duplicity of effort at Base Repair, Depot Repair and even at Overhaul Facilities.

All this costs!!! And require tech specialists to be kept separate for each major type of a/c at Depot Repair and Logistics Supply Chain.

I'm hoping against hope that now the "Logic" is starting to dawn on you -- the current inventory of PAF is getting old fast. Number of air crashes will climb up as the air frames grow older -- it saps the morale not to speak of operational readiness of the squadrons, costs are going up to keep them up in the air.

Time to change!!!! And move on and not keep on discussing the Mirage 2000 fiasco or such other options (With all due respect to all!) We are here, circa 2015, JFT is a reality, paucity of funds is a reality (and btw no Saudi Miracle funds or Chinese largess is there), our birds are getting old fast, Indian influence on major a/c manufacturing nations is rising, and we are sanctions prone.

Take your pick! go for J-10 (Power plant issues r still there) go for J-11 (Issues with license and power plant export) or go for SU-30/35 directly from Russia (My pick -- but I think Russia is playing a game with India to get a continued engagement with Indian military orders - but lets see, I can be wrong here). But are we planning to induct 200 of these birds??? Not more than fifty or so at best given the problems with our economy. So how are we going to fill the gap of 150 or so fighters?? With Typhoons, F-35's, Block 60's, Gripen ...... dream on bro........ defies logic!!

Au revoir!

 

[PakEye]

@waz please let me know why I do not have the privileges to reply on the following thread? Thank you
jf 17 has no place in modern warefre

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/jf-17-has-no-place-in-modern-warefre.407417/#ixzz3qqDKxtHJ

the subject of this thrade itself is troll
can be a indian troll behind Pakistani flage name @askar