JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Engima Chaudhry]

Simulated combat, like what you see in the Red and other exercises

Ok.
But I distinctly remeber an f22 captured in a rafale's gunsights.

F-22 kill ratio is in exercises against other USAF/USN aircraft when they are pitched against large number of aircraft and they come out ahead in overwhelming manner. However, there is no records of F-22 used in actual combat to shoot down aircraft but they have been used to spy and collect all sorts of intelligence.

Thanks
That was precisely my point.
But one wonders , why an aircraft so overwhelmingly superior is slated to be retired by 2030.
Any way, their aircraft , their decision.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Ok.
But I distinctly remeber an f22 captured in a rafale's gunsights.

Thanks
That was precisely my point.
But one wonders , why an aircraft so overwhelmingly superior is slated to be retired by 2030.
Any way, their aircraft , their decision.

It won't be retired imo. The A-10 was supposed to have been retired decades ago too.
It is just one option for them as it was causing lot of issues due to obsolescence and maintenance. Nothing's that not insurmountable for them. Even the F-117 which was retired long ago has examples that are still flying, even if not in active service while the rest are kept in hangers and not in a scrapyard.

 

[MIRauf]

Ok.
But I distinctly remeber an f22 captured in a rafale's gunsights.

Thanks
That was precisely my point.
But one wonders , why an aircraft so overwhelmingly superior is slated to be retired by 2030.
Any way, their aircraft , their decision.

Question shouldn't be as to why, but as to with what ?

Few people here know, most can likely guess it too. Likely a very novel marvel.

PS: In real scenario, Rafale won't even know that F-22 is there / was there. If my memory serves me right, I do remember a DACT where PAF F-7s went against F-22, even if F-22 wiped them with it's gun sight it doesn't mean that in real life the F-22 will get that close to enemy fighters, pilot performing such feats is / will likely to get sacked / court martialed or worst yet 'grounded from flying forever in the USAF.'

 

[CombatSurgeon]

Question shouldn't be as to why, but as to with what ?

Few people here know, most can likely guess it too. Likely a very novel marvel.

PS: In real scenario, Rafale won't even know that F-22 is there was there.

In real life Raptor is a strategically dislocating asset. Like advanced nuclear weapons it is meant to prevent wars just because of its presence. Many an adversary air force stops at what they're about to do by realizing the F-22 factor. God knows how many possible tactical engagements the Raptor has managed to win and avoided subsequent wars by its mere existence!

 

[DJ_Viper]

Ok.
But I distinctly remeber an f22 captured in a rafale's gunsights.

Yes, in an exercise in England I believe and it was Euro fighter with IRST. The issue is, the -35 and -22 aren't designed to come this close to the enemy by design, so these were host nation's exercise parameters which happen to be invalid for the employment of these systems.

 

[MIRauf]

Yes, in an exercise in England I believe and it was Euro fighter with IRST. The issue is, the -35 and -22 aren't designed to come this close to the enemy by design, so these were host nation's exercise parameters which happen to be invalid for the employment of these systems.

Thus this also nullify the IAF fan boy statement that their Rafale can see J-20s becasue Rafale had F-22 in gun sight or that IAF can see and track J-20, J-20 will likely never come anywhere close to Rafale, SU-30s, SU-35s etc but rather perform its function from far away and do it's job.

 

[ghazi52]

After all... Angle is more important than quality

 

[Tamiyah]

After all... Angle is more important than quality

View attachment 773320

My god, never seen this beauty from this angle. It sure do look hot.

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

Yes, in an exercise in England I believe and it was Euro fighter with IRST. The issue is, the -35 and -22 aren't designed to come this close to the enemy by design, so these were host nation's exercise parameters which happen to be invalid for the employment of these systems.

The eurofighter irst pic was a separate one. Rafale gun sight pic was used by French in the Indian mmrc as publicty. Around 2012-13.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Can we stick to the topic please this thread is not for f22 and rafale

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

A

Thus this also nullify the IAF fan boy statement that their Rafale can see J-20s becasue Rafale had F-22 in gun sight or that IAF can see and track J-20, J-20 will likely never come anywhere close to Rafale, SU-30s, SU-35s etc but rather perform its function from far away and do it's job.

Agreed.

Luneberg lens enhanced j20.
The Chinese are not stupid to advertise the stealth factor of their marquee fighter.
Indian Air staff ,was ,probably, fishing for publicity.

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

Question shouldn't be as to why, but as to with what ?

Few people here know, most can likely guess it too. Likely a very novel marvel.

PS: In real scenario, Rafale won't even know that F-22 is there / was there. If my memory serves me right, I do remember a DACT where PAF F-7s went against F-22, even if F-22 wiped them with it's gun sight it doesn't mean that in real life the F-22 will get that close to enemy fighters, pilot performing such feats is / will likely to get sacked / court martialed or worst yet 'grounded from flying forever in the USAF.'
[/QUOTE
Agreed.
Their can be innovative ways to do that.
I am just thinking like the 10th man in the classic Israeli problem solution idea.
Since f22 has no hmd, if the distance is closed to merge, them hobs missile would work.
F22 has one limitation that can be focused on. it can not operate far from awacs coverage. Because the moment it turns on its radar , it is detectable.
And if it is using link 16, Russians have worked out jamming and pinpointing data. receiving aircraft in the link 16. Anyway, just thinking out loud.
If u jam the link , f22 turns on the radar, and u know its location. And them u could focus on that area.
I mean , it is not infallible , but you need a team working like a Swiss watch.

 

[Moon]

My god, never seen this beauty from this angle. It sure do look hot.

It looks better from here

 

[Pak47]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1431038289738338305

 

[DJ_Viper]

The eurofighter irst pic was a separate one. Rafale gun sight pic was used by French in the Indian mmrc as publicty. Around 2012-13.

You can put lipstick on a pig, doesn't mean it becomes a pretty woman. No one ever claimed that -22 or -35 are "invisible". But it's a fact and explained millions of times that these assets are hidden within their own operating envelop. They are never meant to come within IRST / gun sight range of anyone. Common sense wise, it would be silly to put a billion dollar asset within someone's cannon range. Again, employment is much different than how that exercise's scope.

Thus this also nullify the IAF fan boy statement that their Rafale can see J-20s becasue Rafale had F-22 in gun sight or that IAF can see and track J-20, J-20 will likely never come anywhere close to Rafale, SU-30s, SU-35s etc but rather perform its function from far away and do it's job.

Yes, absolutely true. Why would anyone spend billions of dollars on R&D (or a billion in -22's cost) to bring these within cannon fire range? J-20 has some design flaws so it's not as stealthy as the -22 from the sides and back especially. But it is stealthy. So these aircraft aren't meant to come this close. -22 would do it's tasks from standoff ranges, hidden and if need be, Tier II aircraft will go into the weeds (F-15 E, F-18, F-16 block 70+ / V), etc.