JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[ziaulislam]

Not an expert on Ramjets but my question is this during an engagement - wouldn't a higher powered missile while good to chase enemy be at a disadvantage in maneuverability or these missiles designed to reduce/accelerate speed during engagement near the target envelope?

I am an amatuer but i think ramjet carries more fuel as it uses air from atmosphere giving it extended range and thrust..more the thrust range more it can bleed energy in a chase..

Rockets on the other hand have to carry both oxydizer & fuel and thus are heavier...

Which leads us to question why hasnt USA & china caught on to Ramjet engines...surely both have the capability to make one

 

[ziaulislam]

It demonstrates how active their air defences were on the day. What did the Pakistani air defences shoot down the previous day?

IAF crossed LOC, flew over Kashmir and dropped bombs in KPK while PAF was contained within Kashmir and not allowed to cross into India proper.

To be fair, I don't know if the PAF had clearance to cross Kashmir and strike the adjacent Indian provinces, if not, why not?

has been discussed multiple times that balakot of KPK is 49 KM from LOC. if you drop a spice 2000 at optimum conditions it can travel 100km, 50 km is achieved easily most of the time..IAF probably just touched LOC and left, PAF probably didnt even knew that they dropped something

of course, PAF shouldn’t and wouldn’t take anything serious; but facts also speak for themselves. The mirages and the support package of SU-30s were intercepted and chased away by JF-17s and F-16s without accomplishing their goals and forced to drop their weapons and sprint. The PAF went into hostile territory the next day, brought down 2 jets, captured a POW, bombed Indian bases and filmed them and trapped the Indians into shooting down their own helicopter killing 7 occupants.

Whether they want to satisfy their Bollywood fans or not doesn’t matter, PAF could care less and would do the honors everytime

i think the fact they missed so closely only means that wrong co ordinates were put in by IAF..it seems it was incompetence (that led for the failure of mission..a analysis was published by someone in Australia online

 

[Falcon26]

has been discussed multiple times that balakot of KPK is 49 KM from LOC. if you drop a spice 2000 at optimum conditions it can travel 100km, 50 km is achieved easily most of the time..IAF probably just touched LOC and left, PAF probably didnt even knew that they dropped something


i think the fact they missed so closely only means that wrong co ordinates were put in by IAF..it seems it was incompetence (that led for the failure of mission..a analysis was published by someone in Australia online

they were in a hurry to leave. Had no time to verify and correct. Compare that to PAF strikes the next day which were pinpoint accuracy

 

[MastanKhan]

If You really have no clue, what an "engine does have to do with the aircraft" I cannot help you, go and ask someone who you do more trust than me.



I really have no idea why you are constantly repeating this nonsense and seemingly boasting about being right ... the only one who continues to undermine his reliability and make himself ridiculous is you, but you either do not seem to see it or to actually believe this nonsense.

Again, an aircraft may well be based on another types external configuration, it may even take over another's design features, but if there were no blueprints available, or as here the FC-31 looks vastly different to the F-35, then it cannot be a clone or a copy; period. How should a twin-engine aircraft be a copy of what you call a single-beam type?
So if you are not willing to accept my explanation, that we both have different definitions of "copy or clone", but instead continue to insist on your version the FC-31 = a copy of the F-35, then please do not be surprised that some serious ones take with a huge grain of salt.
I'm sorry, but regardless how many hommies here or anywhere cheer you, that still does not make this nonsense a fact.

Hi,

Engines---machines is my field of education and profession---not the same as aircraft engine but as a power supply unit. So please tell me what this RD93 cannot do for an aircraft like the JF17---. What are the critical shortcoming of this engine---?

Is there a problem with startup---is there a problem with the spool up time---it there time delay when pushing from military power to after burner---is their a major lag time---. Is there a lag time in acceleration---is the engine not reliable within the given parameters of its operation---has the engine not performed up to the expectations---.

Is the cost vs operational ability below par and how---is there a problem with parts---is there a problem with repairs---is there a problem with the seller---.

None of these problems exist---.

I will tell you what---this RD93 has been a blessing for the Paf---. Paf had found some issues with the engine---they collaborated with the engine manufacturer and fixed the issues and found ways in collaboration with the manufacturer to get more out of the engine----.

This engine platform has fulfilled the need of getting the techs trained on a capable engine and getting them ready for the next more capable more advanced engine coming in the future either of the same pedigree or a different line---.

 

[Deino]

You might indeed be correct with your statement, that this RD-93 is a blessing but it was the best available given the political and budget considerations. Anyway that does not make it a top notch engine in the class of the EJ200, the M.88 or F414 in (nearly?) all performance fields.

Therefore again; yes, it is a fine engine given the issues on what was available, politically purchasable and cost-wide affordable but what could this fighter be if it would be powered by one of the three other contenders?

 

[StormBreaker]

You might indeed be correct with your statement, that this RD-93 is a blessing but it was the best available given the political and budget considerations. Anyway that does not make it a top notch engine in the class of the EJ200, the M.88 or F414 in (nearly?) all performance fields.

Therefore again; yes, it is a fine engine given the issues on what was available, politically purchasable and cost-wide affordable but what could this fighter be if it would be powered by one of the three other contenders?

Don’t forget to wave hi at DSI

 

[StormBreaker]

Teacherman,

Yes, with a Western motor... Thunder would have more punch in the first two Blocks... EJ2000 is compatible... but then enters Geostrategic Calculus of Global Power Struggle.

PakEconomy is now having a solid foundation and the growth rates will be moving up mid next year... and the trajectory is geared towards more positive... so in a few years money won't be problem.

However, even with Money... Pakistan's Choices are now governed by Geostrategic Space Creation than mere platforms...

CPEC Fight is on... and we might just see KhafeeLeaks coming into the open as well... starting with release of CSF that the US is illegally holding...

I would rather see the Continuous Improvement Cycle for JF ...and more focus on Project AZM... collaboration with Eurozone is most welcome... but production needs to be local sans motor which remains El Drado ...

So, JF is like a F22 for Paks ... emotionally.

Emotion of a poor country on its way to recovery... for some it is difficult to understand how some Pak posters go overboard with super qualities of Thunder... but then Pak is a developing country... and achievements such as Thunder provide a Hope towards coming out of DarkDecades!!!

Thunder = Freedom

So, Teacherman, what do you think that Block3 will be like? Stealth with supercruise?

Regards,

Mangus

You beauty !!!!!!

 

[aliyusuf]

Teacherman,

Yes, with a Western motor... Thunder would have more punch in the first two Blocks... EJ2000 is compatible... but then enters Geostrategic Calculus of Global Power Struggle.

PakEconomy is now having a solid foundation and the growth rates will be moving up mid next year... and the trajectory is geared towards more positive... so in a few years money won't be problem.

However, even with Money... Pakistan's Choices are now governed by Geostrategic Space Creation than mere platforms...

CPEC Fight is on... and we might just see KhafeeLeaks coming into the open as well... starting with release of CSF that the US is illegally holding...

I would rather see the Continuous Improvement Cycle for JF ...and more focus on Project AZM... collaboration with Eurozone is most welcome... but production needs to be local sans motor which remains El Drado ...

So, JF is like a F22 for Paks ... emotionally.

Emotion of a poor country on its way to recovery... for some it is difficult to understand how some Pak posters go overboard with super qualities of Thunder... but then Pak is a developing country... and achievements such as Thunder provide a Hope towards coming out of DarkDecades!!!

Thunder = Freedom

So, Teacherman, what do you think that Block3 will be like? Stealth with supercruise?

Regards,

Mangus

Very nicely put.

I am also emotionally involved with the Thunder. I wish it to be the best it can be. But I never let my emotions get the better of me.

 

[ziaulislam]

seeing the declassified documents on Washington post, is clear that neither CSF nor anything else will be released t Pakistan

USA will either stay or leave without settlement from Afghanistan..and millions of refugees will cross over to pakistan as result of civil war and economic crisis

 

[Haris Ali2140]

seeing the declassified documents on Washington post, is clear that neither CSF nor anything else will be released t Pakistan

USA will either stay or leave without settlement from Afghanistan..and millions of refugees will cross over to pakistan as result of civil war and economic crisis

Can you give a link???

 

[ziaulislam]

Fu*k these refugees back to their caves. They have wrecked enough havoc here, snatchers, burglers, thieves. Such a GOTHAM !!

any idea what to do?
boarder is porous and we are humans..
instablity in Afghanistan wont effect USA but will destroy Pakistan..

Can you give a link???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap.../afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-strategy/

 

[StormBreaker]

any idea what to do?
boarder is porous and we are humans..
instablity in Afghanistan wont effect USA but will destroy Pakistan..


https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap.../afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-strategy/

Since this is the Thunder thread, I can’t go off topic. But last reply in this case.

Afghans were being sent back, fence was being erected. And yet these scums have encroached heavy areas throughout karachi and I believe not only karachi but outskirts of islamabad and possibly other cities. They are a threat to pakistani people, with the most recent example of that unlucky SSG Officer Mr.Gill who was a victim of this mercenary race, a girl who was as well a victim to these scums 1 month ago in karachi in Gulshan e iqbal, constantly these thugs are found snatching people, with real loaded pistols and no mercy. And yet, no progressive response or word from top for sending these namak harams back. Some and i say “only some” are good rest all are enemies of this country.

 

[MastanKhan]

O pa jee... kia ho gaeya hai? Inta ghussa kiun???

Things proven correct that you lamented for years...

Two seater necessary for sales... and as a bonus now we have JF17B ThunderStrike as strike platform..

Size matters... Thunder evolution going the Grippen NG route... so that is great...

I wish that we put all these lessons including mistakes to better use in Project AZM.

Hi

the best way to do is to have a total JV.

and about JF17 engine issue—-i would like a technical answer-a little better information why the engine is bad—what are the shirt comings of the engine by itself

 

[StormBreaker]

Hi

the best way to do is to have a total JV.

and about JF17 engine issue—-i would like a technical answer-a little better information why the engine is bad—what are the shirt comings of the engine by itself

MK not coming slow .

@Deino is a nice guy and as per my observation, not that much of a “tech geek”, more interested in collection of Chinese origin aircraft/missile/any system, information.

He is not the one to answer the shortcomings of RD-93 on Thunders. However, your demand is valid as he did suggest EJ-2000 /Snecma/GE

 

[khanasifm]

Paf is happy with Rd and thrust to weight ratio in combat load of 1.09 unless block 3 adds more weight o form of additional fuel this engine is fine

No issues per paf international buyer may opt for another one then pac/catic can integrate and test provided they pay for it