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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

When there are no aeronautics and avionics industries in the country
actually PAF have engineering cadre bigger than GD pilots cadre, must be some of the members are not aware about it and previously they were not much involved with R&D but now it seems there are moving in this direction
 
actually PAF have engineering cadre bigger than GD pilots cadre, must be some of the members are not aware about it and previously they were not much involved with R&D but now it seems there are moving in this direction

Aeronautics means having computation power, wind tunnels, and testing facilities to take a concept to design and prototype. Avionics means having the ability to design and produce microchips amongst other components.
 
Aeronautics means having computation power, wind tunnels, and testing facilities to take a concept to design and prototype. Avionics means having the ability to design and produce microchips amongst other components.
thnx to inform me ....
 
Only a stupidest of retards would prefer off shelf to indigenous production....

Block 3 is going go beyond any thing in the market and that's just beginning...

Thanks to jf we have now azm as well
 
I know you have vey good knowledge. I am simply pointing out that we can't claim an established 'aeronautical' and 'avionics' industry currently.


That does not mean we shud Not try to build one from the scratch...

Did we have an established nuclear industry in 1980s??

America was a colony in 1800s ... Chinese did not have an economy in 1980s.... u have to start... some where

We will be building 4.5 gen in coming months ( thanks to our friends) ... 5th gen in years and you have seen what our engineers can do with missiles and tanks already

Don't read too much into a troll US cars salesman posts too much ....
 
That does not mean we shud Not try to build one from the scratch...

Did we have an established nuclear industry in 1980s??

America was a colony in 1800s ... Chinese did not have an economy in 1980s.... u have to start... some where

We will be building 4.5 gen in coming months ( thanks to our friends) ... 5th gen in years and you have seen what our engineers can do with missiles and tanks already
Agreed but industries builts on commercial basis not on defense needs otherwise they will not be sustainable ... An aviation industry running on commercial also receiving defense contract is much more healthy and sustainable then a defense industry being running on taxes only as they will always lack funds for growth and R&D ...

If we need to develop this industry we need to work on basic industrial infrastructure ... Starting with electonic industry ...
 
That does not mean we shud Not try to build one from the scratch...

Did we have an established nuclear industry in 1980s??

America was a colony in 1800s ... Chinese did not have an economy in 1980s.... u have to start... some where

We will be building 4.5 gen in coming months ( thanks to our friends) ... 5th gen in years and you have seen what our engineers can do with missiles and tanks already

Don't read too much into a troll US cars salesman posts too much ....
Hi, both China and USA only managed to build world class aviation Industries only after managed to have a powerful economy. Same as small little Israel who has unlimited money from US to help them in their R&D.

Without USA funding, Israel will sure collapse.
 
Agreed but industries builts on commercial basis not on defense needs otherwise they will not be sustainable ... An aviation industry running on commercial also receiving defense contract is much more healthy and sustainable then a defense industry being running on taxes only as they will always lack funds for growth and R&D ...

If we need to develop this industry we need to work on basic industrial infrastructure ... Starting with electonic industry ...


That again does not mean we shud prefer to buy off shelf....

By the way apart from USA no other aviation industry in world was purely built on commercial basis... especially true for Chinese and Russians even most of Europe as well

Hi, both China and USA only managed to build world class aviation Industries only after managed to have a powerful economy. Same as small little Israel who has unlimited money from US to help them in their R&D.

Without USA funding, Israel will sure collapse.


True but still better to build in house than buy off shelf ... its cheaper ultimately
 
That again does not mean we shud prefer to buy off shelf....

By the way apart from USA no other aviation industry in world was purely built on commercial basis... especially true for Chinese and Russians even most of Europe as well




True but still better to build in house than buy off shelf ... its cheaper ultimately
Agreed... i am not saying that we should buy from off the shelf but i am trying to explain the true way of indigenization ...

Chinese and russians are having completely different economic system they have everything under control of government ... so they can transfer profit of other commercial government entities to defense but we cant ...

I am not talking about making a lockhead martin but we should small industries working on components ... like if we have specialized steel manufacturing and metallergy plant that is fulfilling requirement of other commercial uses then we will get alloys for air frame muvh cheaper and much advance with much lesser efforts ... similarly if we have a domestic industry on manufacturing high end cmmunication equipment then it will be lot easy and cost effective to get specialized communication systems for defense equipments ...
 
Agreed... i am not saying that we should buy from off the shelf but i am trying to explain the true way of indigenization ...

Chinese and russians are having completely different economic system they have everything under control of government ... so they can transfer profit of other commercial government entities to defense but we cant ...

I am not talking about making a lockhead martin but we should small industries working on components ... like if we have specialized steel manufacturing and metallergy plant that is fulfilling requirement of other commercial uses then we will get alloys for air frame muvh cheaper and much advance with much lesser efforts ... similarly if we have a domestic industry on manufacturing high end cmmunication equipment then it will be lot easy and cost effective to get specialized communication systems for defense equipments ...


Sure u can even privatise parts of established enterprises and also out source components

But be careful... quality secrecy and cost involved
 
Sure u can even privatise parts of established enterprises and also out source components

But be careful... quality secrecy and cost involved
Yes thats the tricky part but the only way forward ... there are multiple ways of controling ... that can be through regulator or by having controling shares and control of board
 
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When there are no aeronautics and avionics industries in the country the only two choices you have are either to continue to rely on foreign countries for equipment at exorbitantly high prices with ridiculous strings or roll up your sleeves and start the work yourself with friends assistance to achieve the short term targets as well as learning, improving and producing better engineers for the long term goals.

Criticism is the easiest thing in the world and every fool can do that and most do, specially the ones who have absolutely no knowledge of the ground realities, constraints, lack of affordable options and limited resources.

When I look at the big undertakings like these, I look at two things, what is achieved and how? In this particular case "how" it was achieved may not be ideal but this was the only option, but "what" is achieved is nothing less than a miracle. PAF has done a great job through PAC and with the help of China and delivered the short term goals within a decade and with flying colours specially when you compare it with our neighbours to the east who have a dedicated organization separate from their air force and it has failed miserably in delivering anything to date.

How it evolves going forward is yet to be seen but if past performance is any indication, I am very confident PAC is going to do great provided they keep getting the essential funding.
Friend, you have completely failed to get the point I am making.

Hi,

Indeed there is the reason why other air forces of the world do not build their own aircraft---.
Yes, you will fail to bring about innovation and disruption.
 

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