JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[BATMAN]

Actually the irony if it all is the JF-17 is actually what India needed in it's inventory.

In fact if the Block-3 had been made by some country other than Pakistan/China it meets their requirements in their latest tender and addresses their budgetary constraints.

Exactly... jF-17 is the first ever machine designed considering India /Pak war theater.
jF-17 can be a night mare in net centric war theater.
It has highest sortie rate, it will be totally invisible during night strike missions.
Block3 would be the sky limit, with its integrated sensors, EW suite and avionics. Armed with deadly SD-10B and low RCS, it will be invincible for Indians.
CAPs can be done with A2A refueling with blk-2.

 

[untitled]

By the way---how many pakistanis know that the U2 was a build up from the Starfighter F104---was it---or was it not---.

You mean B57 Canberra?

 

[araz]

PAF already has multi shot BVR capability, AESA just gives the capability to do something more efficiently. And it's transceivers are capable of additional task so can replace some electronics/antennas for EW, data link and communication which would reduce weight and drag. For eg Gripen NG has less antennas compared with Gripen C.

Next big thing for PAF will be induction of High Off Bore Sight Missiles. A-Darter and PL-10. AIM-9X as well if ever released to Pakistan.

According to Wikipedia Pakistan and Bangladesh are both operators of PL-9C (F-7PG/BG) which can be slaved to a helmet mounted sight but have yet to see it mounted on a PAF fighter. PL-10 has the added advantage of having similar weight to the PL-5EII it will be replacing.

In replying to your question my personal opinion is although SU-35 addresses the shortcomings Russian jets had compared to western jets in maintenance it's better to skip the SU-35s and save up for something better (Project Azm/J-31/FC-31). Since by all accounts great effort is being made to keep Mirages airworthy till or through 2025 this seems to be the plan.

Thank you for the response. Idid not want to go into the debate about SU35vs J20/31. Each has its own disadvantages and advantages. The question really is whether the sortie rate of a 5th generation is voing to be high enough while remain8ng economical for PAF to rely on it alone. Or we have to look at an interim solution to keep the sortie rate reasonable as well as practical. If a sufficient sortie rate can be maintained we have a no briainer and we go for the 5th generation.
Regarding the Naval role as well we need to remain cognisant of 5he sortie rates. Ex Air Chief maintained that Pr. AZM Produce will have a 6K range. Now that will give us enough loitering time to forego the SU series. However if sortie rates remain low nd turnaround times high and expensive then we need an interim solution.
Regarding SU 35 the only way it makes sense to me is with a Chinese AESA and Fire control Radar allowing us to mate the Chinese weaponry making it a viable option and not a logistical nightmare. Without it we will have too huge a problem and the better choice might be to pay a royalty to the Red bear and acquire the J11/16 series.
The HOBS missile is a few years away as the helmet to aim it is not in the market yet. The Wezt will not give us thos technology so the talk of French products are a bit premature. Lets see how this one turns out.
I bave my doubts about the timelines of Project Azm unless we are buying a Chinese product and putting Made in Pakistan stamp on it. It just does not make sense to me at least. A more realistic timeline 8s late 20s early 30s. But this is just my view.
A

 

[aftab_s81]

JF-17 Block 3 with mix of western and Chinese gadgets should be able to handle both but we do need dedicated 4.5 generation fighter.

USA needs pakistan to bring peace in Afghanistan so it can not afford to isolate Us and in order to do that she will keep giving us nibbles, giving us used military hardware, used F-16s....etc.

Used F-16s most likely will come by the end of this years but they won’t be enough. Trump is not going to appprove any new F-16 for Pakistan so our choices are limited to J-16 or SU-35.

There are NO F-16s coming!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

hahahah those Pro US posters and their F16 love stories

It seems we are at war hmmmmmmmmm
2004 to Present

I don't think people in Pakistan know US is waging a war in Pakistan

• I was pretty sure Pakistan ran Rad-ul Fasad to win Local War however it seems our Uncle SAM is still at war with imaginary bodies

One would have imagine such Wiki stuff would read US war in Afghanistan? For me the sticking point really was the "None Usage of Afghanistan a battle field" and instead declaring war is bing fought in Pakistan


I clearly remember US went to war in Afghanistan in 2003-2004
However it seems we have some misunderstanding if it was war against Afghanistan or Pakistan

Lets say you were not aware of history in last 10 years and you read this dedicated US wiki segment hmmm it would seem there was some war in Pakistan since 2004

 

[Armchair]

why you think that FC-31/J-31 have similar kind of engine WS-13/RD-93, that enough for maritime role, in my personal opinion project AZM will be medium weight class fighter jet, look at the world most top maritime jets they all have medium thrust engine f-18- rafale, mig-29 to ef2000 @Armchair

Hi PakistaniPower,

It seems that the rumor is that the Azm project is twin engined. European and American engines are not available to Pakistan. This means the only real option is RD-93 derived improved variant / WS-13. Similar to the FC-31. This configuration for a stealth aircraft provides very little chance of having an air superiority fighter that has the range to be relevant for PN's maritime CAP requirement. IMHO. I could be wrong.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi PakistaniPower,

It seems that the rumor is that the Azm project is twin engined. European and American engines are not available to Pakistan. This means the only real option is RD-93 derived improved variant / WS-13. Similar to the FC-31. This configuration for a stealth aircraft provides very little chance of having an air superiority fighter that has the range to be relevant for PN's maritime CAP requirement. IMHO. I could be wrong.

only 2 engine that have a wide band IR signature reduction, and that is F-119 (for F-22) and F-135 (for F-35) rest have little to no or partial IR signature reductions features Like F-414 ( For F/A-18E/F) or M-88 (For RAFALE-M) Lets wait for Chinese WS-15, if this engine have similar kind of wide band IR signature reduction features like F-119 and F-135 have, then this IR signature reduction tech will be incorporated easily on WS-13 @Armchair

 

[MastanKhan]

Why you people are afraid of pitching JFT against SU30 MKI. JFT was indeed made to kill SU30MKI. Every expert some years ago name JFT as MKI killer.

Hi,

Every pakistani kid and many a pakistani adults were claiming it to be

You mean B57 Canberra?

Hi,

No----the U2's papa is the F104---.

 

[Armchair]

only 2 engine that have a wide band IR signature reduction, and that is F-119 (for F-22) and F-135 (for F-35) rest have little to no or partial IR signature reductions features Like F-414 ( For F/A-18E/F) or M-88 (For RAFALE-M) Lets wait for Chinese WS-15, if this engine have similar kind of wide band IR signature reduction features like F-119 and F-135 have, then this IR signature reduction tech will be incorporated easily on WS-13 @Armchair

Hi there, you're not understanding the issue... its not about IR signature reduction...

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi there, you're not understanding the issue... its not about IR signature reduction...

but what please explain @Armchair

Hi there, you're not understanding the issue... its not about IR signature reduction...

your previous post hinted that here your post @Armchair

Hi PakistaniPower,

It seems that the rumor is that the Azm project is twin engined. European and American engines are not available to Pakistan. This means the only real option is RD-93 derived improved variant / WS-13. Similar to the FC-31. This configuration for a stealth aircraft provides very little chance of having an air superiority fighter that has the range to be relevant for PN's maritime CAP requirement. IMHO. I could be wrong.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

A few days ago a fool talked about trimming---how often is it used---

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[syed_yusuf]

but what please explain @Armchair


your previous post hinted that here your post @Armchair

Hi PakistaniPower,

It seems that the rumor is that the Azm project is twin engined. European and American engines are not available to Pakistan. This means the only real option is RD-93 derived improved variant / WS-13. Similar to the FC-31. This configuration for a stealth aircraft provides very little chance of having an air superiority fighter that has the range to be relevant for PN's maritime CAP requirement. IMHO. I could be wrong.

Azm will be a Delta wing

 

[Ultima Thule]

Azm will be a Delta wing

How do know @syed_yusuf it may be tail delta wings like F-31 or may be like delta/delta canard design like J-20, which will be least probable @syed_yusuf

 

[Armchair-General]

The advantages of a delta wing in terms of fuel capacity and load carrying can not be ignored. The frontal RCS of a pure delta is smaller than that of a conventional configuration (Mirage 2000 RCS vs F-16 RCS).
Addition of canards would indeed increase the RCS but is important for maneuverability. With advances in engineering, I would imagine that we could have something like fold able or retractable canards.
This would require us to make space for the retracting/folding machinery. However this along with Divert-less Supersonic Inlets would mean a very small frontal RCS. In the Indo-Pak scenario, the PAF will be forced to fight defensively with occasional shallow thrusts into Indian territory for targeting strategic infrastructure of Indian military. So a delta with very small frontal RCS is our best option. To engage in WVR combat, the canards would be unfolded to increase maneuverability.
Power plant as I imagine would be twin RD-93MAs (a variant specifically being designed for the FC-1) that would have better thrust and fuel consumption, compared to original RD-93. Fuel consumption and maneuverability can be further refined with thrust vectoring. So the fighter will have enough range for
To make a proper Fifth Gen fighter, networking with the rest of the fleet would be very important along with other goodies like IRST, AESA radar, stealth coatings and an internal or semi-recessed weapons bay.

 

[Armchair]

A Mirage 2000 has 1/3rd the RCS of an F-16. With present technology, it is possible not to need a canard by having a V tail and thrust vectoring. This would reduce drag, further increasing range and sustained turn rates. Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest ones. This would be a bit like a smaller YF-23 with smaller V tail and with thrust vectoring, at least if Syed Yusuf has his way.

I do think Syed Yusuf has a good idea here.