JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[The SC]

Hi,

F 5 a 60 + years old----. It is nothing by itself-----. Until and unless you don't have the HEAVIES-----it has no place when placed against the heavies.

So---under the current circumstances---it is a worthless aircraft---basically a liability to the nation---. It would be a wonderful aircraft for those nations who only have aircraft in similar class to oppose.

Indian pilots don't need to familiarize with it----. It is an inferior platform to their su30's---.

I was talking about the F-5 X in its time but a similar plane in todays context and tech.

I do not see any comparison between the Rafale tech and the SU-30s, maybe they share some old stuff with the Mirage 2k-5.

 

[Thorough Pro]

that was when Radars couldn't see feet beyond their nose, when there were no HOBS missiles, bla bla bla

Although I agree with you somehow, I want to point out the role of a very small and effective fighter aircraft that have shaped much of what we know today in the US arsenal, and that is the F-5 in all its variants. Due to its small size it wasn't that much visible till it closed in, and once there, its agility and maneuverability were as deadly as any huge and powerfull fighter jet twice its size and twice its weapons capacities. So I rather compare the JF-17 to the F-5 roles in todays context.
The other parameter is the time it will take the Indian pilots to get familiarized with it, and still much more time to get efficient in its use.
So you are right in the case of the French but not in the Indian context.

 

[MastanKhan]

@610....Mastan Sahab
I as a non professional and a mere enthusiastic reader do agree with your assessment of naive politico/strategic thinking of our defence think tanks.Please tell us what is your opinion about and the relevance of Swedish Grippen which falls in the same
Category as JF-17 in the environment of twin engined aesa equipped heavies.

Hi,

Thank you for your post sir. First---one has to acknowledge that for Pakistan---time is the enemy. What we could get 13 years ago from today----the same thing that we manufacture of our own and it is ready 5 years from today with the same capabilities ----leaves you 18 years behind.

So after 18 years---you would be with your own product that you would have been otherwise with the same capability.

But then truthfully---because this capability that you have attained now it is not the same capability any more---because as I mentioned in many a posts----all your major weapons systems are in relevance to what your enemy has on the ground first of all----and secondly---what message you want to send to your opponent.

What would have that purchase done---either the grippen or the rafale---you projection of power would have forced your opponent to sign on the dotted line. The proof is in front of us---even after the hostilities of 2002 with india----both parties were ready to make it happen---and when the 2005 earthquake hit----Pakistan wanting to spend all its reserves on Kashmir----making statements like we don't have the funds----we can't buy so and so. Our opponent walked off the table.

So---we were concerned about sanctions---. But then there was nothing to stop us from acquiring a couple of sqdrn's of
J 11's.

It is not good enough to say that this aircraft is too expensive to fly or there are sanctions----. Nations improvise---nations find ways to make things happen.

 

[syedali73]

So---we were concerned about sanctions---. But then there was nothing to stop us from acquiring a couple of sqdrn's of J 11's.

Russia was stopping. If J-11 was purely a Chinese design (with Russian engines), it was possible, but a basically Su-27 design, with huge Russian input, plus engine, plus weaponry, it was not going to happen.

 

[ANG]

Images show JF-17 flying with CM-400AKG hypersonic ASM - IHS Jane's 360


Images show JF-17 flying with CM-400AKG hypersonic ASM
Richard D Fisher Jr, Washington, DC - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
22 October 2014

Recent images of two China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) CM-400AKG high-speed air-to-surface missiles on an airborne Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) FC-1/JF-17 fighter. Source: Chinese internet


Recent images of two China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) CM-400AKG high-speed air-to-surface missiles fitted to an airborne Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) FC-1/JF-17 fighter suggest that China continues to develop the missile.

While the source or date of the photos is not known, they have appeared on multiple Chinese military websites. The JF-17 carrying the missiles, which could be mock-ups, has a serial number of 10-115 and is believed to be a test aircraft based at the CAC airfield.

Chinese sources indicate the CM-400AKG is derived from the SY-400 tactical ballistic missile. The CM-400AKG has been promoted as a 'hypersonic' anti-ship-capable missile since its unveiling at the November 2012 Zhuhai Airshow. However, at the November 2013 Dubai Airshow a Pakistan military source told IHS Jane's that while the CM-400AKG was then in "Chinese service," an anti-ship version was still "in development".

If true then it is used by another platform as the FC-1/JF-17 is not in Chinese service. The most likely candidate is the Xian Aircraft Corporation JH-7A strike fighter or the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation's J-11 fighter family.
Chinese brochure data at the 2013 Dubai Airshow gave the CM-400AKG's length as 5.1 m, its diameter as 400 mm, weight as 910 kg and range as 100-240 km. It also listed seeker options to include "INS+GNSS+Passive Radar Seeker," which could have anti-ship capabilities, and "INS-GNSS+IR/TV Seeker". The respective circular error probable for each is given as 5 m and 5-10 m.

However, it is the CM-400AKG's reported maximum terminal speed of around Mach 4.5 to 5, which is obtained in part through its high altitude cruise and steep terminal dive, that has sparked the most interest. At the 2013 Paris Airshow Argentine officials with the FADEA state aircraft factory cited this missile's performance as a major reason for their interest in co-producing the FC-1/JF-17.

 

[MastanKhan]

Russia was stopping. If J-11 was purely a Chinese design (with Russian engines), it was possible, but a basically Su-27 design, with huge Russian input, plus engine, plus weaponry, it was not going to happen.

Hi,

Russia did not stop. Pakistan never asked. If paf had gone for the rafale---like 40 of them in 2002-03 ---it would have been much easier for the paf to develop the jf17.

French just wanted a foreign order of Rafale and who better than Pakistan----then one can say---okay----the rest will be replaced by JF 17's.

It is all a mind game----looking into the future----give and take---planning for the best and expecting the worst.

 

[syedali73]

Hi,

Russia did not stop. Pakistan never asked.

They may have asked Mastan Saheb, how do you know they did not? I too am a huge (though not too vocal unlike you) critic of Pakistan Armed forces with reference to blunder they have made through their history and still making, but do get to know few things via close relatives in civil and military bureaucracy. I have little faith in our armed forces and that is why I give them benefit of doubt.

 

[MastanKhan]

They may have asked Mastan Saheb, how do you know they did not? I too am a huge (though not too vocal unlike you) critic of Pakistan Armed forces with reference to blunder they have made through their history and still making, but do get to know few things via close relatives in civil and military bureaucracy. I have little faith in our armed forces and that is why I give them benefit of doubt.

Hi,

The Chinese have said that. What is stopping the paf now----.

I donot have problem with all of pak military---just the air force----and some with pak generals having little visions and perspective.

But then pak public must share a major part of the blame---. Now that is one brainless entity that sways with which way the wind blows.

 

[syedali73]

Hi,

The Chinese have said that. What is stopping the paf now----.

I donot have problem with all of pak military---just the air force----and some with pak generals having little visions and perspective.

But then pak public must share a major part of the blame---. Now that is one brainless entity that sways with which way the wind blows.

Maybe they are looking for the 5th gen J-20. What advantage J-11 will offer over F-16 Blk52? Not much right? and the learning curve to master these airplanes and develop tactics? perhaps another 10 years. Does this look feasible? As a stop gap, PAF should look no further and try to induct more Blk52s as you have mentioned in your earlier posts. J-11 may not be the right choice now and 5 years ago it was not even possible.

 

[MastanKhan]

Maybe they are looking for the 5th gen J-20. What advantage J-11 will offer over F-16 Blk52? Not much right? and the learning curve to master these airplanes and develop tactics? perhaps another 10 years. Does this look feasible? As a stop gap, PAF should look no further and try to induct more Blk52s as you have mentioned in your earlier posts. J-11 may not be the right choice now and 5 years ago it was not even possible.

Sir,

You still don't get it----we are on the verge of a war. A war that can start within the next 24 48 hours----and what are we doing--we are playing word games.

The weapons that you bought 10 years ago were for the war that you are going to fight tomorrrow----you don't go out and buy weapons for the war you are going to fight the next day..

 

[syedali73]

Sir,

You still don't get it----we are on the verge of a war. A war that can start within the next 24 48 hours----and what are we doing--we are playing word games.

The weapons that you bought 10 years ago were for the war that you are going to fight tomorrrow----you don't go out and buy weapons for the war you are going to fight the next day..

Then we will fight with whatever we have. What has happened has happened and bickering about it is not going to change it.

 

[MastanKhan]

Then we will fight with whatever we have. What has happened has happened and bickering about it is not going to change it.

Hi,

It keeps happening all the time---hasn't changed. A change has to come---one way or the other.

 

[IrbiS]

At a time PAF wanted to arm JF with French missiles and radar.French stalled the deal till they got big one which was with India and then said no

 

[MastanKhan]

At a time PAF wanted to arm JF with French missiles and radar.French stalled the deal till they got big one which was with India and then said no

And the french wanted to arm PAF wit M2k first and rafale as well---pay back is a bi-tch.

 

[IrbiS]

And the french wanted to arm PAF wit M2k first and rafale as well---pay back is a bi-tch.

Since they got big money upgradings IAF 2ks and hefty Rafale deal was progressing, They did'nt wanna annoy India and and loose big deals compared to what we were gonna buy.