JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[krash]

Why didn't the Pakistanis military make the news public in 2009 (like promote the hell out of it)? I'd imagine that you can only help JF-17 sales by promoting the fact that it was used in combat situation against terrorists.

Because an air force isn't exactly best suited to handle marketing schemes? Wonder when will they learn...

 

[Bratva]

JF specs board from Paris airshow mentioning Advance tactical data link in it

 

[MastanKhan]

The onus of docking with the refueller in a probe-and-drogue system is on the pilot which means that he himself needs to manoeuvre his aircraft and in result the probe into the drogue basket, which at those speeds and altitudes is like threading a needle. So for this the pilot needs to keep constant watch on the probe and have clear view of his flight instruments at the same time. This means that the probes' ideal position would be some where in-front-ish of the pilot which would also mean the probe partially obstructing the pilot's view, there is no other way around it. Hiding the probe closer to the nose and out of the pilot's sight is out of the question. The only way a probe-and-drogue system can avoid this completely is by having a retractable probe, which for certain reasons we do not have on the JF-17.

However, the fixed probes aren't a big deal either. Let's not forget that all pilots do already deal with the canopy strut obstructing their view (except on the F-16 and the F-22),

Mig-29:

F-15:

You can think of the probe and the strut as the pillars besides the windscreen of your car. They obstruct vision almost directly in front of you but as soon as you gain some experience driving that car you don't even notice them any more, it's as if they aren't even there,

This is because our brains are wired to disregard redundant visual data making it virtually invisible e.g. our noses are always visible to our eyes but our brain chooses to ignore them (Although this is the best case example due to our bifocal vision's proximity to our nose). Or when something like this happens,

Btw, Rafale's probe is in an even more obstructive position than the JF-17's; almost in front rather than towards the side like the JF-17's. So if the Rafale's ok with its probe, our Thunder will be just fine.

In a flying boom refuelling system however, like that on the F-16, the responsibility of docking the boom with the aircraft is on the dedicated boom operator sitting in the refueller. Hence all the pilot basically needs to do is fly as steady as he can while the boom operator manoeuvre's the boom into the fuel receptacle of the aircraft being refuelled. This allows the fuel receptacle to be anywhere e.g. behind the pilot.

Hi,

What monkey were you talking about---I still cannot find it---.

Anyway---you are correct about the probe height---I believe it has to be slightly above the pilot's line of sight to have the total picture in front of him.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Because an air force isn't exactly best suited to handle marketing schemes? Wonder when will they learn...

like not so far and maybe never

 

[gambit]

Anyway---you are correct about the probe height---I believe it has to be slightly above the pilot's line of sight to have the total picture in front of him.

In 'probe-and-drogue' refueling, the hook-up burden rests mostly on the pilot. No jokes about the other type of 'hook-up', please, suffice to say that being a pilot make that type of 'hook-up' much more easier.

Anyway...The design of the probe is not a trivial thing.

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2013-4695

Every aircraft produces a 'bow wave', even as sleek as the SR-71. The bow wave produced by the C-5 Galaxy is enough to literally raise the rear of the refueling tanker once the two aircrafts are near enough to each other during the air refueling process.

For the smaller fighter that is of the probe-and-drogue type, if the probe is short enough the refueling drogue will be caught in the fighter's bow wave, fluttering around, making the pilot's flying to hook-up much more difficult, which then causes refueling congestion in the line of other aircrafts behind him.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Perhaps to assure US establishment that F-16s are the only good weapon in fight against terrorism. Also JF-17 hasn't been seen flying with a targetting pod and LGBs yet which is essential to make a sales pitch.

Even if that were the case, I think it'll still be better to advertise it as "battle-proven".

Better yet, when Pakistan finally integrate targetting pods and LGBs to the JF-17, the PAF can take a lesson from Iraq's CH-4s and post video recordings of JF-17 bombing runs on youtube or other social sites. I think that'll improve the sales prospect tremendously.

 

[Aepsilons]

Even if that were the case, I think it'll still be better to advertise it as "battle-proven".

Better yet, when Pakistan finally integrate targetting pods and LGBs to the JF-17, the PAF can take a lesson from Iraq's CH-4s and post video recordings of JF-17 bombing runs on youtube or other social sites. I think that'll improve the sales prospect tremendously.

I want to invite you to join a Japanese military forum, if you're interested , please PM me. would love to get your professional representation there.

 

[Paksanity]

Even if that were the case, I think it'll still be better to advertise it as "battle-proven".

Better yet, when Pakistan finally integrate targetting pods and LGBs to the JF-17, the PAF can take a lesson from Iraq's CH-4s and post video recordings of JF-17 bombing runs on youtube or other social sites. I think that'll improve the sales prospect tremendously.

Apparently PAF has a policy of not releasing its bombing videos although it has been bombing a lot for many years. It may be because of uncontrolled media in Pakistan and in order to not provide fodder for propaganda by our enemies. It is safe to assume PAF would share the results confidentially with negotiating buyers but not release them out in public.

 

[krash]

Even if that were the case, I think it'll still be better to advertise it as "battle-proven".

Better yet, when Pakistan finally integrate targetting pods and LGBs to the JF-17, the PAF can take a lesson from Iraq's CH-4s and post video recordings of JF-17 bombing runs on youtube or other social sites. I think that'll improve the sales prospect tremendously.

One can't even begin with the, at times, horrendous marketing attempts for the JF-17. I'll give you another example: In the big promotional video for the block II, let alone showing the missiles actually being fired, we don't even get to see the aircraft with live SD-10 and PL-5 rounds! Apparently the customer is expected to make do with the blue dummy rounds instead. This was when both the missiles had already been integrated on the aircraft, as seen in a few pictures before. Even if they weren't, you'd think that they'd just colour them white for the video. Wonder who was the genius who went "Geeez, I think the blue missiles really bring out the pilot's eyes"....

And guess which were the only air to ground weapons they decided to mention in the video? Yup, general purpose bombs and anti-runway bombs. How would you like to buy a 4th gen aircraft that apparently has no guided air to ground munitions?

Let's not even talk about the shoddy script or the proof-read job done on it.

Hi,

What monkey were you talking about---I still cannot find it---.

Anyway---you are correct about the probe height---I believe it has to be slightly above the pilot's line of sight to have the total picture in front of him.

On the off-chance that you weren't kidding, it's in the top right corner of the picture

 

[Quwa]

Instead of actual combat footage (which is sensitive from a local PR standpoint), the PAF should set up a weapons testing range. Set up dummy targets and get the JF-17 to drop LGBs, PGBs, AGMs, etc with recordings. Not only that, but the PAF could also give measured data in terms of accuracy, especially in different conditions, e.g. adverse weather.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I want to invite you to join a Japanese military forum, if you're interested , please PM me. would love to get your professional representation there.

whats it called i will check it out

 

[MastanKhan]

Instead of actual combat footage (which is sensitive from a local PR standpoint), the PAF should set up a weapons testing range. Set up dummy targets and get the JF-17 to drop LGBs, PGBs, AGMs, etc with recordings. Not only that, but the PAF could also give measured data in terms of accuracy, especially in different conditions, e.g. adverse weather.

Hi,

And they should stop using those VERSES of eternal glory and bravado at the begining of one of their videos in a STUPID FAKE VOICE.

 

[HRK]

https://twitter.com/x/status/694586869208727555

 

[Muhammad Omar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/694586869208727555

so the missile is integrated?

 

[Quwa]

so the missile is integrated?

I think he's posing a possibility question, i.e. "if A-Darter is integrated onto JF-17, would it be an attractive option for developing countries?"