JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[HRK]

What is the captive life of Western missiles?

AIM-120 Captive Carry Hours

AIM-120 Mean Time Between Failure for Missile Hardware

 

[fatman17]

Top guns at Paris

 

[nomi007]

 

[Tempest II]

Bcuz RD93 cannot be re exported beyond Pakistan.

Are you sure? 3 or so years ago China was allowed to re-export the engine to at least 5 countries if not 7.

AIM-120 Captive Carry Hours
View attachment 230052

AIM-120 Mean Time Between Failure for Missile Hardware
View attachment 230053

There are 2 very different figures there. What is Mtbm which is 1200 hours? MTBF 120 hours is comparable to the SD-10. Which is which? Or which means what?

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/610500658228293632

I grew old waiting for these pictures!
Finally, operational aircraft with operational missiles and not testing.

But to mention here that Chinese blue missiles are training rounds .... Live ones are white colored, like the one in the picture you posted.

 

[fatman17]

Are you sure? 3 or so years ago China was allowed to re-export the engine to at least 5 countries if not 7.

View attachment 230058


There are 2 very different figures there. What is Mtbm which is 1200 hours? MTBF 120 hours is comparable to the SD-10. Which is which? Or which means what?

Maybe so but I'm not aware and the countries listed are probably not FC1 buyers

 

[Dazzler]

That is all?

nope, dummies essentially equal the weight and aerodynamics of the real thing but lack rocket motor, warhead and other components.

 

[HRK]

There are 2 very different figures there. What is Mtbm which is 1200 hours? MTBF 120 hours is comparable to the SD-10. Which is which? Or which means what?

339 hrs figures are of operational testing phase of earlier version, but current estimate stands around 1200 hrs

 

[Dazzler]

Bcuz RD93 cannot be re exported beyond Pakistan.

As far as i know, it can be re-exported to any country with the rd-93 except where the Russians themselves are bidding with their fighters. Egypt was one such case.

 

[fatman17]

As far as i know, it can be re-exported to any country with the rd-93 except where the Russians themselves are bidding with their fighters. Egypt was one such case.

And Algeria Egypt Iraq Iran etc etc etc. FC1 is fighting in the same market as Russia. Will be tough going. Countries that already deploy Chinese origin fighters etc are the best bet for the FC1.

 

[nomi007]

 

[nomi007]

indian are comparing thunder with fgfa

which is great

 

[Tempest II]

339 hrs figures are of operational testing phase of earlier version, but current estimate stands around 1200 hrs

339 hrs figures are of operational testing phase of earlier version, but current estimate stands around 1200 hrs

Researched this a bit further. MTBM Type-1 is the designed (desired) figure. That helps explain why those numbers are nice rounded values . That is what the stakeholders in the system would like. How often they think they should be repairing/servicing the missiles.

Operational MTBF is reality. Check the odd figure of 339 hrs.

From below, note that they are not the same but if an system is ideal, they will be very close. At the moment the AMRAAM is failing a lot more than the salesmen said.

 

[Windjammer]

Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder attack fighter is at the Paris Air Show to woo further export customers. Improved, Block II aircraft are now being delivered to the home air force.

With one signed export contract already secured, Pakistan’s JF-17 is cavorting in Parisian skies this week, intent on tempting additional sales, most particularly from Africa. Earlier appearances at Farnborough, Dubai and Zhuhai have played their part in publicizing the attack fighter’s capabilities. But, according to Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood, CEO of JF-17 Sales and Marketing, Paris is the place to meet Francophone potential customers.

The identity of the first export buyer remains a closely guarded secret and might not be divulged any time soon. Maintenance of the veil of discretion is assisted by the fact that media reports have identified countries (literally) between Argentina and Zimbabwe as being Thunder purchasers. “Hiding in plain sight,” indeed.

“We are talking intimately with a dozen possible customers,” says Mahmood, “and there are many more who are interested. Around the world, there are about 4,000 such aircraft that need replacing, particularly by budget-limited air forces. We expect to take a big share of the market, as the JF-17 costs only a third as much as some Western fighters.

“What we offer is cutting-edge technology at affordable cost,” he said.

Designed (as the FC-1) in Chengdu, China, to a Pakistani specification, the Thunder is built exclusively at Kamra, Pakistan. It is from this production line that export orders will come, with the Chinese supplying 42% of the aircraft’s components. This may vary slightly as customers are offered two basic avionics packages: one exclusively Chinese; the other combining local, Western and Chinese kit. Engines (RD-93s) come from Klimov in Russia.

The first customer has ordered “several batches” of Thunders, apparently including the long-awaited tandem-seat trainer version. The prototype is scheduled to fly in December 2016.

Meanwhile, the Pakistan air force (PAF) has equipped two squadrons and a tactics training unit with its first 50 Block I Thunders. Four improved, Block II aircraft have now been accepted by the PAF and the remaining 46 are following at the rate of three per two months. Inflight refueling probes will be installed on the second half of this batch.

Mahmood confirms that early work is being undertaken on a Block III configuration, probably to include enhancements to radar, avionics and weapons in conjunction with “chin” stations for sensor- or targeting pods. He was unable to confirm any connection between this program and the JF-17 weapons integration testbed (numbered 0213) which was built in China late last year.

Will export customers find, like some for U.S. aircraft, that certain high-tech equipment items are denied them? “The Americans are worried that, one day, they might find themselves fighting their own technology somewhere in the world,” explained Mahmood. “We don’t have that problem.”

Thunder Remains Silent on Export Order | Paris Air Show 2015 content from Aviation Week

 

[Tempest II]

So the difference in performance differences we see could be down to regulations from one country/show to another.