JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Zarvan]

If you need a different / bigger fighter, then modifications have to be done. Either go for the already in production delta canard j10 which has better high altitude performance or design a new fighter from the ground up which will cost a lot of money in R&D
The cranked-arrow wing shape in F16XL provided better low-speed lift and handling characteristics than the modified "double-delta" wing used on the other SST.
The design of the cranked-arrow wing was a cooperative effort of
the General Dynamics Corporation and the NASA Langley Research
Center (LaRC). The cranked arrow wing, common for both the F-16XL-1 and F-16XL-2 versions, was designed to provide the F-16 aircraft with improved supersonic performance while maintaining transonic performance that was comparable with that provided by the current F-16 design.The resultant design had a leading-edge (LE) sweep angle of 70 deg inboard and 50 deg outboard of the crank. At the juncture of the wing leading edge with the fuselage, an S-blend curve was placed in the leading edge to alleviate a pitch instability that was found to occur at high angles of attack in wind-tunnel tests and wing-tip missiles installed.
NASA Armstrong Fact Sheet: F-16XL Laminar Flow | NASA

Sir G according to report we have offered BLOCK III to Bulgaria but where the hell is BLOCK II ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir G according to report we have offered BLOCK III to Bulgaria but where the hell is BLOCK II ?

Hi,

There are some good things happening with the BLK 2---.

As for a bigger JF 17----it is not goig to happen and neither a new design---all the future aircraft that Pakistan needs in the next 10 years have already been manufactured----. The JF 17---current production---the J 10---current production---J 31---already made its flight---and if they really really want to step up---then the J 20 is already there.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

and always overpriced

Well the price war is due to European origins. Cost of labor is the main problem.

 

[I FLY HIGH]

Hi,

There are some good things happening with the BLK 2---.

As for a bigger JF 17----it is not goig to happen and neither a new design---all the future aircraft that Pakistan needs in the next 10 years have already been manufactured----. The JF 17---current production---the J 10---current production---J 31---already made its flight---and if they really really want to step up---then the J 20 is already there.

very true , we must replace all f6,7 ,pgs, mirages with block 2 and block 3 and for the longer raanges must induct some fc20, and for stealth fc31 is the right plane . This is the right configuration rather than trying to convert jf17 to fc20.

 

[MilSpec]

Come on guys, let's rest this AL-31 debate. No such thing is possible nor planned. If we really wish to invest, we ought to follow the Gripen-NG path.

How bout M88 snecma debate then,

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Sir,

Firstly---J 10 was just offered to Pakistan a few months ago---20 of them---.

At this time---anything and everything from china is available to Pakistan. For some items---Pakistan needs the funds---other items are available for very soft loans----.

China is being cornered---situation with Japan, Vietnam, Philipines, USA, India is not the best. The Japanese are flying 400 + sorties a month to face off Chinese aircraft---the stress level in the Japanese pilots is extremely high---and that is just the air force---the Japanese navy is busy 24/7 at high alert---margin of error is reduced to zero------lots and lots of issues---east and south china seas are a hot zone.

China wants to secure its flanks and wants to keep its trade routes open and one of the routes is thru Pakistan.

Sir,

My comment regarding the sale of J-10 was based on the current requirements of China. In the past when China offered these to Pakistan the situation was not as bad as it is today.

At present between 388 and 528 J-7s remain in service as of 2013/2014 that are to be replaced by J-10s, J-11s and J-16s enter service. There are also Q5's, JH-7's and J-8 that need to be replaced.

It is also true that when JF-17 was under development it was to be purchased by China to replace some of the above aircraft.

Today China is reconsidering JF-17 so that the replacement can be done at a much higher pace. If this happens then your comment (becomes a reality).

Hi,

Thank you for your comments---a larger JF17 with an Al-31FN is basically a J 10----.

Hi,

99% of the world fighter aircraft are flying and doing a tremendous job without carbon fiber parts. The most important things that are needed are an Aesa radar, JHMCS and off bore sight missiles.

Sir,
I agree that fighter aircraft are flying but that require higher maintenance. They are heavy and require a bigger engine that is not economical. Todays aircraft are based on the principle of economics that is the reason they have gone for carbon fiber composites. Carbon fiber gives higher strength and is lighter creating more space hence greater payload as well as higher performance.

Incorporation of AESA, JHMCS and off bore sight missiles in JF -17 is need of the hour. Aesa requires a bigger nose cone and more power and a better CDU which can only be added if the aircraft is either made by more carbon fiber or increase in size. If size is increased with a traditional aluminium alloy body then that would also require a bigger engine. If carbon fiber is used then the same size and engine can accommodate every thing but this requires money.

Hi,

There are some good things happening with the BLK 2---.

As for a bigger JF 17----it is not goig to happen and neither a new design---all the future aircraft that Pakistan needs in the next 10 years have already been manufactured----. The JF 17---current production---the J 10---current production---J 31---already made its flight---and if they really really want to step up---then the J 20 is already there.

Sir,
There are reports that IAF is asking for T-50 PAK-FA and SU-35S because the deal of Rafales is almost finished.
India & Russia Sign Intention Protocol For Prelimnary Design Work of Sukhoi Su-35S Super Flanker


Indian Budget Casts Doubt on Rafale Deal

May be PAF is considering J-10's and J-31's because of the recent developments but the issue is are they going to be delivered before the local requirements are fulfilled. What is the feasibility to produce these locally at PAC can the current or future budget of Pakistan take the burden.

The French Rafales / Mirrage 2000-5's and the EFT might also be reconsidered along with more F-16's.

 

[Kompromat]

How bout M88 snecma debate then,

As stated by PAF officials, JF-17 was designed to take multiple types of engines without much structural changes. PAC has placed a request to RR for EJ-200 specs for a possible sale to an existing EJ-200 user. M-88-2 is also compatible with JF-17 if a customer wants it and is willing to pay for it.

PAF is happy with RD-93 and will continue to use them. As for AL-31 is concerned its absolutely idiotic to think that, it will even fit in the airframe let alone provide combat ready performance with existing fuel capacity. As stated in an interview with ACom Khalid, PAF will keep developing it into as many blocks as needed at a rate of 50/block.

The chatter is about AESA radars, IFR, Link-16 and perhaps Conformal Fuel Tanks in the long term. The current fuel capacity dictats that the RD-93 stays because it balances good flight performance with good combar radius. For RD-93MA or 100kn WS-13G to be integrated, the conformal fuel tanks will become critical.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

As stated by PAF officials, JF-17 was designed to take multiple types of engines without much structural changes. PAC has placed a request to RR for EJ-200 specs for a possible sale to an existing EJ-200 user. M-88-2 is also compatible with JF-17 if a customer wants it and is willing to pay for it.

PAF is happy with RD-93 and will continue to use them. As for AL-31 is concerned its absolutely idiotic to think that, it will even fit in the airframe let alone provide combat ready performance with existing fuel capacity. As stated in an interview with ACom Khalid, PAF will keep developing it into as many blocks as needed at a rate of 50/block.

The chatter is about AESA radars, IFR, Link-16 and perhaps Conformal Fuel Tanks in the long term. The current fuel capacity dictats that the RD-93 stays because it balances good flight performance with good combar radius. For RD-93MA or 100kn WS-13G to be integrated, the conformal fuel tanks will become critical.

This indicates that some progress has been made in regards to SA acquiring JF-17.
Would JF-17 with M-88-2 be a wise selection for replacing the Mirrage III and V's?

 

[Zarvan]

This indicates that some progress has been made in regards to SA acquiring JF-17.
Would JF-17 with M-88-2 be a wise selection for replacing the Mirrage III and V's?

Where did SA came from ? How you came with this conclusion ?

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

After completing the project or going side by side (if economical conditions permit) PAF will need a new project of Delta wing configuration. Either you will need to go for J-10 or buy second hand Mirage-2000 from some GCC or develop in house. It will be necessary to replace the large numbers of Mirages currently in service with PAF.
JF17 is a suitable replacement for A5s and F7s but not exactly for Mirages.
Delta wing advantages like higher service Ceiling, more fuel and range, Speeds in excess of Mach 2 and more importantly more payload are somewhat lacking in JF17.
Its beyond logic that Chinese have not look into Pak Mirages. Pakistan itself is operating them since 1967. We have Mirage rebuild factory. Now we have basic infrastructure and expertise in place for aviation, its right time to start designing a new form Delta wing fighter. We should copy Mirage design, get help from chinese to make it work.
Mirages have become a liability for us now, with lots of fatal crashes. Need its replacement ASAP.

 

[Shabi1]

After completing the project or going side by side (if economical conditions permit) PAF will need a new project of Delta wing configuration. Either you will need to go for J-10 or buy second hand Mirage-2000 from some GCC or develop in house. It will be necessary to replace the large numbers of Mirages currently in service with PAF.
JF17 is a suitable replacement for A5s and F7s but not exactly for Mirages.
Delta wing advantages like higher service Ceiling, more fuel and range, Speeds in excess of Mach 2 and more importantly more payload are somewhat lacking in JF17.
Its beyond logic that Chinese have not look into Pak Mirages. Pakistan itself is operating them since 1967. We have Mirage rebuild factory. Now we have basic infrastructure and expertise in place for aviation, its right time to start designing a new form Delta wing fighter. We should copy Mirage design, get help from chinese to make it work.
Mirages have become a liability for us now, with lots of fatal crashes. Need its replacement ASAP.

The JF-17 is going to be PAFs workhorse, despite specs they can do everything better than the delta winged Mirages. For the strike role we have the F-16s and for the spearhead can look for the J-31 when budget permits. No need for another delta aircraft, Mirage-2000 or the J-10.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Where did SA came from ? How you came with this conclusion ?

There is a post in which the JF-17 have been tested by RSAF
JF-17 In Saudi Arabia

and
Saudi Arabia expresses interest in JF-17 co-production with Pakistan.

More over this is the only country currently operating aircraft with EJ-200 in this region. The other countries that have ordered or are considering EFT are with the new engine. More over the conflict with Daish is also creating a panic like situation for SA. Transport and helicopter along with more F-15 and EFT have already been ordered so now they are after aircraft and equipment from other countries, where as naval orders have also been made with USA, France and Far Eastern countries. Turkey also expects some orders to be placed for Navy and Helicopters so does Pakistan for JF-17's .

 

[Zarvan]

There is a post in which the JF-17 have been tested by RSAF
JF-17 In Saudi Arabia

and
Saudi Arabia expresses interest in JF-17 co-production with Pakistan.

More over this is the only country currently operating aircraft with EJ-200 in this region. The other countries that have ordered or are considering EFT are with the new engine. More over the conflict with Daish is also creating a panic like situation for SA. Transport and helicopter along with more F-15 and EFT have already been ordered so now they are after aircraft and equipment from other countries, where as naval orders have also been made with USA, France and Far Eastern countries. Turkey also expects some orders to be placed for Navy and Helicopters so does Pakistan for JF-17's .

Saudi Arabia can buy JF-17 if they decide too equip there National Guards with Fighter Jets

 

[My-Analogous]

Saudi Arabia can buy JF-17 if they decide too equip there National Guards with Fighter Jets

May be JF17 with some avionics from Turkey. All three are very active now a days

 

[sergiobrevet]

hello interesting talk of pcs. them I can make a query where I can find information on the cost of the time of flight of jf-17