JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[Deino]

basically if Pakistan want to increase its aviation capabilities then they should try it in house and be less dependent on China it will be beneficial for both, AL-31FN which is larger engine can be used in larger version of JF-17.

@Horus @gambit you opinion is required in this regards.

Sorry, but a larger version of the JF-17 with an AL-31FN simply does not make any sense ... then it would be a direct rival for the J-10 !

 

[The SC]

Pakistan is in the process of retrofitting its 50 Chengdu/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 fighters to an improved Block II configuration.

The new configuration features improved avionics and better software, and adds a fixed air-to-air refuelling probe, says Air Cdre Khalid Mahmood, chief executive of JF-17 sales and marketing.

Mahmood spoke to Flightglobal at the Pakistan booth at Airshow China in Zhuhai. He was part of a 20-strong delegation from Pakistan, which also brought a single JF-17 to appear in the static display...

Given the small size of the combat fighter, a fixed refuelling probe was found to be preferable to a retracting one. Pakistan uses the Ilyushin Il-78 to provide air-to-air refuelling for its fleet.

In December, Pakistan will begin taking delivery of 50 JF-17s configured in the Block II configuration. Beyond this, its air force has options to take its fleet of the type up to 150 or 200 aircraft. Additional improvements are foreseen in a planned Block III upgrade.

Mahmood adds that the air force is satisfied with the fighter's Klimov RD-93 engine. The powerplant can currently be operated for up to 800 flight hours between overhauls, but there is an effort under way to improve this.Mahmood reveals that the type has seen combat in western Pakistan, where it has employed both guided and unguided munitions.

AIRSHOW CHINA: Pakistan outlines JF-17 upgrade activity - 11/12/2014 - Flight Global

Who is waiting for Bock 2? It is already there. the next hundred will be the same block 2, block 3 will come after that.
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"With an urgent need to export JF-17s, a two-seater will be built in the Block 2 time frame. The PAF had always said that a two-seater is not urgent, but Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt now admits that a dual seater is a necessity. "We realise that it is required, because the air forces interested in buying JF-17 want one," he said."

First Block 2 JF-17s under construction in Pakistan - IHS Jane's 360

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Sorry, but a larger version of the JF-17 with an AL-31FN simply does not make any sense ... then it would be a direct rival for the J-10 !

This might be possible as J-10 might never be put for export.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

basically if Pakistan want to increase its aviation capabilities then they should try it in house and be less dependent on China it will be beneficial for both, AL-31FN which is larger engine can be used in larger version of JF-17.

@Horus @gambit you opinion is required in this regards.

Bhai please don't use a gun to kill the mosquito :/ AL-31 is another class of engine and you are suggesting a whole new level of designing and integration for JFT to fit with this.
Ooh please what can be done with a little more work up with the present engine similarly as Americans did with their F-414 series for that purpose you are suggesting a whole new category of engine.
A suggestion of EJ-200, 210 even 220 are think able as they are of the same class but with better technology which comes with maintain ability and performance perks but AL-31 it's like putting in a Dumper engine in a car.

 

[SQ8]

Sorry, but a larger version of the JF-17 with an AL-31FN simply does not make any sense ... then it would be a direct rival for the J-10 !

Sorry, Pakistanis will not be satisfied until they have turned the JF-17 into a SR-71 rival. Has to do with the mentality of making things do what they were not designed or supposed to do; a thought process that is a dual edged sword.

 

[Paksanity]

Sorry, Pakistanis will not be satisfied until they have turned the JF-17 into a SR-71 rival. Has to do with the mentality of making things do what they were not designed or supposed to do; a thought process that is a dual edged sword.

Thankfully however, PAF knows what this aircraft can be. They are only trying to achieve realistic targets.

 

[The SC]

They are just making the JF-17 the best it can be (block 2) for now, make a 100 or 200 of it, export some and improve when there is room for it (Block 2 AESA and then Block 3).

 

[princefaisal]

JF 17 Thunder Prototype-6 equipped with IRST (Infrared Search and Track) pod on external weapon station.

 

[gambit]

basically if Pakistan want to increase its aviation capabilities then they should try it in house and be less dependent on China it will be beneficial for both, AL-31FN which is larger engine can be used in larger version of JF-17.

@Horus @gambit you opinion is required in this regards.

The JF-17 is a working aircraft. My take is that it would be grossly foolish for Pakistan to let the airframe languish.

One area is that from an avionics perspective, I can understand that given how the -17 was designed, pitch axis only fly-by-wire was all that was needed, but for the long term, the -17 is the perfect test bed for Pakistan's indigenous avionics expertise to grow by making the next iteration all axes fly-by-wire independent of Chinese inputs. Maybe that day is here already, but in general principles, there will come a point where an airframe's limitations prevent the -17 from becoming any more agile, but when that point come, Pakistan's own avionics experts will be adept enough to take on more challenging airframe designs.

Airliners operates in the comfort zone of .8 to 1.2 g forces and yet Boeing and Airbus abandoned the mechanical FLCS a long time ago in favor of the FBW-FLCS model which self limit to 9g because of the human. If the -17 and its progeny are to be globally competitive, by that meaning being a credible deterrence which inevitably make it an attractive export item, the -17 must evolve and should do it under all Pakistan's hands. Countries that flies the F-16 have limited legal freedoms on what they could do with that airframe, not counting the technical limits. Not so much for the JF-17 and Pakistan. Why let it go to waste ?

 

[The SC]

At the present time they are making the best of it, agility wise, it will never be like the F-22 even when the Pakistani engineers master those technologies. So more realistically, they might start producing some J-10s and J-31s, when they are done with the JF-17s. Depending on the economy which looks quite good for the coming years considering all the investments and projects we are witnessing now, I think Pakistan might go for a hundred J-10s production (less a squadron or two from on the shelf), and a 100 J-31s (also less a Squadron or two from on the shelf), at that time _5 years from now_ those platforms should have matured to some high level.
I won't be surprised if PAF gets in the next 10 years a strategic Squadron (or more) of a PAF variant of the J-20, with many sub-variants for different strategic and air-superiority tasks.

 

[Manticore]

Sorry, but a larger version of the JF-17 with an AL-31FN simply does not make any sense ... then it would be a direct rival for the J-10 !

[QUOTE
JF-17 cannot sell because it doesnt have a domestic engine.
President Xi very angry at Guizhou GAIC WS13 not ready for J31 and JF17 - Military Affairs - Chinadaily Forum
J31 has no domestic engine except that old RD93 which spitting out black smok totally un stealthy.

President Xi warns Guizhou, GAIC if WS13 not coming out this year all of them will get fired and become unemployed.

President Xi warned state firms not getting things done because too much corruption. AVIC maybe partially privatized to increase productivity.

[/QUOTE]

any comments?

 

[Deino]

Interesting ... but how reliable is this bog-post ?

 

[princefaisal]

basically if Pakistan want to increase its aviation capabilities then they should try it in house and be less dependent on China it will be beneficial for both, AL-31FN which is larger engine can be used in larger version of JF-17.

@Horus @gambit you opinion is required in this regards.

JF-17 with AL-31FN engine should be applied for two seat version with bubble canopy and F-16 style tail.

 

[Deino]

But then again it would be in the same class of the J-10S ... it would require a completely redesigned fuselage due to the wider engine !

IMO it is simply not feasible ... it would be like sizing up a Hornet to fit two F100/110 engines.

As such only day-dreams and not a real option.
Deino

 

[princefaisal]

Jf-17
length = 49 feet, Wingspan = 31.0 ft, Engine thrust = 18900 lb
F-16
length = 49.3 feet, Wingspan = 32.8 ft, Engine thrust = 29500 lb
J-10
length = 51 feet, Wingspan = 32.8 ft, Engine thrust = 27560 lb

When lengths are almost equal, then why JF-17 engine thrust is lower. With slight redesigning, Al-31FN can be added. Similarly wingspan can be increased to 32 ft to accommodate more weapons or pods.