JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[Neo]

China Close To Testing New Prototype Of Combat Jet Co-Developed With Pakistan

The FC-1 Xiaolong combat jet, also known as the JF-17.by Staff Writers
Beijing (AFP) Apr 09, 2006
China is close to testing a new prototype of the FC-1 Xiaolong combat jet jointly developed with Pakistan, about a year behind the initial schedule, state media said Sunday. The fourth prototype of the Xiaolong aircraft, a multi-role fighter-bomber with a range of 1,200 kilometers (750 miles), will take to the air "in the near future," the Beijing News reported.
The aircraft, also known as the JF-17, is a cooperative project between the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group in the southwest province of Sichuan and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.
While earlier prototypes have focused on operational flight capabilities, the fourth prototype is expected especially to test the weapons fit.
The plane is capable of carrying multiple air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons, according to the paper.
Earlier reports had said the fourth prototype would have its maiden flight in April 2005. No explanation was provided in Sunday's report for the apparent delay.
Source: Agence France-Presse

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/China_Close_To_Testing_New_Prototype_Of_Combat_Jet_Co_Developed_With_Pakistan.html

 

[EagleEyes]

Pakistan and China are now looking for avionics for the JF-17, and an AESA radar is in consideration.

http://www.selex-sas.com/datasheets/Vixen500E.pdf

Chinese-Pakistani Warplane Almost Ready:


The Pakistan Air Force is expecting the delivery of its first multi-role combat aircraft modelled on China’s FC-1 Xiaolong in early 2007, a spokesman said on April 10.

The Air Force plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunders, jointly produced by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters.

"The program is on schedule and the fourth prototype would be tested by the end of April," Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan said. The flight will be used to test the aircraft’s avionics and weapons integration.

Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17, will begin in China in June and the aircraft would be delivered to Pakistan in early 2007, Khan said.

Serial production of the aircraft would start at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra by June 2007, with aim of supplying both the Pakistan Air Force and export markets.

Pakistan and China had been negotiating with different companies to buy the avionics package for the JF-17 aircraft, which at $12 million apiece is half the cost of an F-16.

BAE Systems Plc was one option being considered for sourcing the avionics, according to defence and diplomatic sources.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1677276&C=asiapac

 

[Owais]

The fourth prototype of the Xiaolong aircraft, a multi-role fighter-bomber with a range of 1,200 kilometers (750 [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]miles

[/FONT]), will take to the air "in the near future," the Beijing News reported

[/FONT]

range only 1200km??
this is short legged!:embarassed:
is this ferry range or combat radius??
BTW: which country will give us AESA radar? if we are thinking about AN/APG79, It will be plain stupid because that radar is a $25millions a peice.

 

[ISI2003]

range only 1200km??
this is short legged!:embarassed:
is this ferry range or combat radius??
BTW: which country will give us AESA radar? if we are thinking about AN/APG79, It will be plain stupid because that radar is a $25millions a peice.

you forget the refueling capability
also the radar being looked at is a british one, the selex, according to some other forums, and the increase in price is under $5 Million on top of the current price of $12 Million, that is still within the acceptable PAF price range

 

[Kaiser]

you forget the refueling capability
also the radar being looked at is a british one, the selex, according to some other forums, and the increase in price is under $5 Million on top of the current price of $12 Million, that is still within the acceptable PAF price range

I think they got it wrong, the thunders range is alittle over 3000 km.ISI i doubt pakistan would go for an AESA but, there's still a possibility that pakistan has evaluated it for either a small batch of thunders (maybe the whole order) or the j-10.

 

[Thunder]

I think they got it wrong, the thunders range is alittle over 3000 km.ISI i doubt pakistan would go for an AESA but, there's still a possibility that pakistan has evaluated it for either a small batch of thunders (maybe the whole order) or the j-10.

Why won't we go for ASEA? 150-200 Thunders with ASEA is like a dream come true. These fighters alone can take on most of IAF then. If it's chinese then it'll be cheaper too, we might even get TOT for it . MAYBE

 

[Owais]

you forget the refueling capability
also the radar being looked at is a british one, the selex, according to some other forums, and the increase in price is under $5 Million on top of the current price of $12 Million, that is still within the acceptable PAF price range

the range has been misrepresented to media or by media. the first proto type has the range of 3000km with combat radius of 1350 km. so how the 4rth proto have range less than combt radius?
BTW: PAF has 0 refulers.

the radar you are talking about is selex CAPTOR which is designed for EUFTyphoon. so it may be very costly. here is some info. about selex.
http://www.selex-sas.com/pukrad_sas.html

 

[ISI2003]

the range has been misrepresented to media or by media. the first proto type has the range of 3000km with combat radius of 1350 km. so how the 4rth proto have range less than combt radius?
BTW: PAF has 0 refulers.

the radar you are talking about is selex CAPTOR which is designed for EUFTyphoon. so it may be very costly. here is some info. about selex.
http://www.selex-sas.com/pukrad_sas.html

refueling is a planned future upgrade, and PAF sadat said we plan to get refuelers in the future (but we have to induct the jf-17 first, )

 

[Owais]

JF-17 is currently China's only advanced fighter developed in open. Many people use it to understand .China's fighter development direction. The DSI
change that started in June of 2004 caused many surprises, so did the Leading edge extension in September. Since 2006, JF-17 has been viewed even more when President Musharraf visited. CCTV showed brand new JF-17 04 with a previously unseen modern glass cockpit. This cockpit represent ourcountry's avionics level has reached world class. JF-17 showed 1 HUD and 2 MFD in the cockpit in previous displays. There were analog controls in the middle. The look was similar to F-16a/b. In 2004, zhuhai airshow showed a cockpit with 1 HUD and 3 MFDs. All the analog meters on the cockpit got replaced by digital control. Cockpit underwent a total digital
information redesign. However, the model does not give people the good feeling that a real thing would.

Everyone knows that JF-17 is a China/Pakistan

combined venture. JF-17's main aim is to equip PAF.

In south Asian crisis, Pakistan receive American

embargo. It not only failed to receive 79 F-16s it

order, but also could not get spare parts to F-16.

As a result, it had to order 80 F-7PG and some

squadrons even got F-16s replaced by F-7PG. This is

rarely seen in military aviation. JF-17's

development is extremely urgent. Pakistan believes

that JF-17's capability and price should be lower

than F-16C/D, but capability should be higher than

F-16A/B. Due to the anti-terrorism planning, PAF's

importance got changed. America not only agreed to

sell F-16, but also some advanced F-16s that it

could not get before. Due to this pressure, JF-17's

requirement got increased. It needs to be more

advanced than F-16, that's why you see the whole

change in 04.

The new cockpit's electronic system showed JF-17's

modified capability. The new cockpit is very

compact and functional position is positioned well

and shows very mature system. 1 HUD is the main

fighter display. This HUD has 24 degree in sight.

It can add infrared signal? and supply flying,

navigation, liftoff and landing info, it can also

display target details and shooting detail. It can

also communicate, navigate using the GUI There is a

camera located above the HUD. It records HUD and

external sights. HUD is the most important

instrument in flight. Integrated informational

level is dependent on this. Russia added some nice

looking displays for su-30, but their display

information is simple and information is spread.

So, it did not really integrate the information.

The JF-17 HUD uses a lot of digital processing and

information integration information. For example,

radar information, fight command info. HUD's

controller has the ability to change display.

Controller can also control all of the plane's

dipslay. 3 MFDs are below the HUD. It is multi-

colour LCD display. The dimension of the MFD is

20.3cmx30.6cm (note: this works out to be 8 x 12

inch, but a more realistic estimation is 6.25x8.25).

The area is 4 times the previous area. The display

brightness and contrast can be automatically

adjusted. It also allows handle control. Each MFD

displays important function. Display info can be

changed. The control on the side acts as parameter

design. Very often, left side shows weapon

situation and numbers. Right side displays radar

and combat info. The center shows some less

important info, because it requires the pilot to

lower his/her head. Like navigational info and map

and so so. All the MFD can change to other info

like radar, cockpit camera? and infrared picture and

such. cockpit also allows night navigation and

pilots can use night goggles to fly.

04 uses a hotas controller? pilot can keep hands on

controller and still control the fighter's sensor

mode, weapon and display. This greatly reduces a

pilots movement and makes operation much easier.

The controller does not affect the position in

combat? Basically, allows pilots to keep the hand

on the controller in combat. The earlier western

4th generation fighters like F-16A/B only had

limited functions on the controller. JF-17 hotas

uses advanced western design like F-16C/d, F-18C/D

and Mirage2K5's newest model for design. Also, the

system has different controls dependent on the hand

size, length and finger size and length of the user.

Basically, uses customizable controller. Allows a

lot of activities done with limited energy.

04 uses all digital integrated electronic display.

all computers/electronics uses 2 STD-MTL-1553B

databus combined, curren info shared repository and

shared data repository. According to demand, it

also divides into weapons w/commands, radar, EW,

communication, electronic control, payload control,

FBW and so on. This avionics system's core lies in 2

advanced weapons controlling computer. these two

computers do something... Each computer controls 1

double thick 1553B databus? This computer uses new

structure system. It uses main controller rights to

receive and process each system's info. At the same

time, receive pilot's command. Uses command to

control other systems. It's current world's most

advanced input computer and main line integration

web. Very few new fighters has this kind of complex

and high speed system like typhoon, rafale and F-16

E/F. This system uses battle flight software

package to exercise control and allows using

development of more detailed software package to

improve fighter capability and work load. Weapon

controlling computer directly connects to MFD's

structure. It uses information from each system to

display on the 1 HUD and 3MFDs. Radar system is

another important part of JF-17. It's also a major

commercial battle area. Pakistan used a lot of

Grifo radar in the past on F-7s. JF-17 also was

about to use this. Italy also pitted Grifo-S2000

(should be S7) in competition. China also provided

a radar for customers. Domestic radar has good

support for China's weapon systems and missiles.

The current multimode PD radar has BVR capability,

WVR capability and attack land and sea mode and

other modes. Also has look down and shoot down

capability even under disruptive environments below.

You can Track 10 targets from 40 scanned targets

and handle 2 concurrent BVR engagement. The range

vs 3 m^2 targets is larger than 75KM and look down

is larger than 45 KM. It is larger than 135 KM vs

sea targets.

04's GPS navigation system replaced the traditional navigation system, greatly improved precision and reduced preparation time. Talks about GPs capability after this and how American military controls it. It also has other wireless navigation but not as precise as GPS.

JF-17's EW suite is very complex. It combines radar warning receiver and missile proximity receiver to form surveillence system and combined with ECM work. JF-17 uses uses something to diagnose RWR. It can receive a lot of information like fighter radar, missile seeker, A2S guidance radar and provides within 1.5 degree news. RAR has about 100+ radar info repository. It uses measured info to compare. detect the threatening origin and correct (radar type or fighter type?) and warning level. This repository can improve to 300. It can allow reprogramming, receive wartime newly discovered radar signal. 04's improved tail (backside" contains a missile proximity receiver. There will probably be two more put on the fighter for 360 degree coverage. It uses infrared and purple dual band imagine device. It has a purple red window? It can sense missile's rocket engine spoke from 20 KM in. It can correctly predict missile's location, trail and such. It can even estimate engagement time. It can be expanded to a fighter/missile recognition system. It can also provide some infrared imaging, communicate with RWR and hopefully can develop passive signal detection technology.

04's EW suite also has a ECM pod. It and the ECM on the tail provide joint work. ECM current uses traidtional infrared something? modern missile's countermeasure to this is getting stronger each day. To let this simple and cheap ECM achieve high efficiency shows system's level, RWR, MPR and such. This system is only equipped by rafale and F-22. F-18E/F and F-16E/F needs upgrade to have this. 04 should also have ECM inside of fighter. It uses modern ECM technology and uses precise tracking system. Can achieve the affect of large ECM machine with small equipment. This ECM is most modern active guided AAM. It can also counter gither radar lock and scan. It's mainly for PAF's enemy IAF's R-77 missiles.

To acommodate modern web of combat. 04 is equipped with 2 ECM vs radar tower and something else. It can receive datalink info from ground of AWACS. Other equippments include big air computer? and advanced digital processing signal and such. The electronic system stores everything, all the bugs and such. It can use computer to process this. Reduces ground maintenance.

It uses western standard MIL-STD-1760 to allow for integration of western weapons and can also get hooked on with Russian weapons. It will probably uses PL-9C, SD-10, PL-11, AIM-9L/M and AIM-7F. It also good use LGBs and possible A2G missile integration.

Kaiser,
From where did you get this information??

 

[Kaiser]

Why won't we go for ASEA? 150-200 Thunders with ASEA is like a dream come true. These fighters alone can take on most of IAF then. If it's chinese then it'll be cheaper too, we might even get TOT for it . MAYBE

Actually the thunder alone (non-aesa) can take care of anything in the IAF fleet accept su-30mki but, if pakistan get aesa for the thunder then I garentee you IAF will ##### and since they will have nothing to counter it (including mki) theyll buy like 300 fighters

 

[Nasir]

The article emphasize on the relationship between China and Pakistan defence relations, with the argument of U.S.

Pakistan to discuss Chinese defence purchases
By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad
Published: April 17 2006 01:18 | Last updated: April 17 2006 01:18

Pakistan will discuss the purchase of advanced defence supplies from China when President Pervez Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz, prime minister, visit Beijing later this year, senior Pakistani officials said.

The revelation closely followed last week’s announcement that Pakistan would buy an unspecified number of sophisticated J-10 fighter jets, also known as F-10s, from China and provided further evidence of the two countries consolidating an already close relationship.

Analysts believe that Pakistan, an important US ally in the fight against terrorism, is concerned about what it considers to be a fast-growing nuclear alliance between neighbouring India and the US and is looking to China as the main source of its crucial defence supplies.

Pakistan was looking to China for military deals even more than before, said Talat Masood, a respected commentator on defence affairs in Islamabad. Unlike the US, there was no question of sanctions from China, he said.

There have also been reports that Pakistan is seeking more nuclear power reactors from Beijing beyond the two already committed by China. After last month’s visit to Pakistan by US president George W. Bush, Pakistan’s leaders have also urged Washington to supply the country with civil nuclear reactors, just as the US has promised India.

The J-10s are the most sophisticated military purchases by Pakistan from China in four decades.

Western diplomats said Pakistan was believed to be seeking 35-40 of the fighter jets in a deal worth at least $1.5bn (€1.2bn, £857m). This is in addition to plans for the purchase of 150 JF-17 fighter jets being produced jointly by Pakistan and China, valued by analysts at $2.2bn-$2.5bn.

Pakistan also said last week it would buy up to 77 F-16 fighter jets from the US. The US last year lifted restrictions on the sale of F-16s to Pakistan, 15 years after suspending a deal in 1990 for the sale of 71 of them on the grounds that Pakistan was producing nuclear weapons.

“Pakistan’s view on relations with the US and China is revealed from how these two deals were announced simultaneously,” said a Pakistani government official. “If the US in future once again blocks deliveries for one reason or another, the pipeline from China would continue. Trust, trust and trust has always been the guiding principle for our two countries.”

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/7de4f6b6-cda0-11da-afcd-0000779e2340.html

 

[melb4aust]

The article emphasize on the relationship between China and Pakistan defence relations, with the argument of U.S.

“If the US in future once again blocks deliveries for one reason or another, the pipeline from China would continue. Trust, trust and trust has always been the guiding principle for our two countries.”

Thats what i was saying, Good luck J-10 as well as thanx to China. "Trust" thats it.

 

[Munir]

To put it simple. In the past China had onle low tech to offer. Now that has been changed and with gigh tech being expensive for almost all nations the medium tech isn't so bad at all. With buying chinese products Pakistan jumps on a fast train (10% growth first quarter 2006) and gets real friendship and at the same time it ends being the "best ally or friend against terrorism" without any compensation. With Pakistan able to match India with two hands down it means that India is more and more willing to accept peace. With Pakistan being able to produce tanks, planes, ballistic and cruisemissile it is less bullied. Compare it with times when Pakistan had nothing. Even if US wants to push India to worldpower it will fail to gain any regional respect. Pakistan can more easily towards China and give and control oil routes... Why else is the navy grwoing every year? Why else are there more and more developments near Gwadar? Why else is China helpnig Pakistan to build infrastructure? It means that China needs oil for its economy and Pakistan will get the fruits of that...

 

[Owais]

At Last!!
China tests upgraded fighter:love: :banana: :banana2: :flag:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Associated Press[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]SHANGHAI, China — China on Friday successfully tested an upgraded version of its Xiaolong fighter, demonstrating a “significant improvement in the innovation capabilities” of the country’s aviation industry, the government said.
The latest version FC-4 fighter flew for 16 minutes over the southwestern province of Sichuan, where its producer, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group, is based, according to a report by the official Xinhua News Agency.
The report gave few details, but said the supersonic plane was equipped with advanced aviation electronics and weapons systems.

“The success of the flight marks a significant improvement in the innovation capabilities of China’s aviation industry and makes possible mass production of the plane,” Xinhua said, citing experts it did not further identify.
The Xiaolong, or “Valiant Dragon,” is a multipurpose light jet fighter with both air-to-air and ground attack capabilities and a top speed of Mach 1.6.
China’s People Liberation Army Air Force is believed to have ordered 200 of the planes. While believed to be based on a Russian design and possessing significant foreign technical involvement, the plane is among the most advanced made by China.
A version known as the Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder is being jointly manufactured with Pakistan and about 150 are to be exported to China’s close ally beginning this year.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1738620.php
[/FONT]

 

[Neo]

Yeah!!


Advanced China fighter aircraft makes test flight

www.chinaview.cn 2006-04-28 18:15:42

A Xiaolong 04 fighter plane is seen during its test flight at Wenjiang Airport in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province, April 28, 2006. Xiaolong 04 is an improved home-built multi-purpose light fighter of a new generation. It succeeded in its first flight April 28. (Xinhua Photo)​

A Xiaolong 04 fighter plane is seen during its test flight at Wenjiang Airport in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province, April 28, 2006. (Xinhua Photo)​

Photo taken on April 28, 2006 shows a Xiaolong 04 fighter plane at Wenjiang Airport in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province. (Xinhua Photo)​

CHENGDU, April 28 (Xinhua) -- An advanced version of the China-developed new-generation fighter plane, the Xiaolong/FC-4, succeeded in its first flight on Friday in southwest China's Sichuan Province.

Based on previous models, the Xiaolong/FC-1 and FC-3, the FC-4 is equipped with advanced electronics and weapons systems, which improve its combat capabilities, say experts.

The success of the 16-minute test flight marks a significant step in China's aviation industry, and makes mass production possible.

The Xiaolong series is a multipurpose light fighter aircraft developed by the China Aviation Industry Corporation I(CAIC-I), the Chengdu Aircraft Group Corp. and China Aero Technology Import and Export Corporation.

With advanced design and manufacturing technology, this export-oriented fighter plane is small, low in cost and suitable for modern warfare and the demands of military fighters, experts said.
The FC-1 made its successful maiden flight in August 2003, after about four years of development. The plane demonstrated outstanding mobility, and good interception and ground attack capabilities.
The development program for the new-generation fighter aircraftwas officially launched in 1999, led by the CAIC-I, the country's leading operator in the aerospace industry.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-04/28/content_4487258.htm