JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[melb4aust]

Thats a kool news, especially the aquisition of AWACS. So how many AC's they are gonna produce per yr?

Plus there's no news about the F-16's Pakistan was getting from US any more.

 

[Owais]

Plus there's no news about the F-16's Pakistan was getting from US any more.

the decision for used F16s to be taken after june.

 

[EagleEyes]

I would like to point out few things. The infrastructure has been initiated at Kamra according to this source, http://www.pakistaniforces.com/component/option,com_magazine/Itemid,0/func,show_article/id,2/

8 aircrafts will be jointly produced, 4 of them will go to Pakistan and 4 for China. There is a possiblity that the hard points (stations) might be increased as the requirement have been increased.

Pakistan to start production of JF-17 air crafts

ISLAMABAD, May 10 (Online): Pakistan will start production of its sophisticated fighter aircraft JF-17 Thunder from this year.

This was said by Air Marshal Aurang Zeb Khan, chairman Pakistan Aeronautical complex board and Air Vice Marshall Shahid Latif, chief project director of JF-17 during a briefing to the journalists here Monday.

Air Vice Marshal Shahid Latif told that production of JF-17 was going to be started from this year and first fleet of 4 air crafts would be handed over to Pakistan Air Forces in December 2006. " We will acquire four more air crafts till March 2007, he added. Full production of aircraft's will start from 2007, he remarked. New aircraft's will be inducted in place of discarded air crafts. JF-17 production will be in excess of country's requirements and these will be exported.

He informed that Pakistani JF-17 aircraft will be available at the half rate of Western countries price. This air craft will compete the best air crafts of the world as far as technology and facilities are concerned.

It will be lighter in weight than other fighter planes of the world. All the conventional and non-conventional weapons will be used in this plane due to its flight to 55 thousands feet altitude and fast speed. All the weapons from air to surface and air to air will be used in this plane. Seven more stations will be set up in this air craft.

The craft will have capability to be fuelled during flight. Highly advanced flight system will be installed in this air craft.

Chairman PAC Kamra, Air Marshall Aurang Zeb Khan told that four factories on repairs of mirage planes, F-6 and F-7 air crafts plane and radar manufacturing were functioning successfully in the country. " We have obtained ISO certificates and US and Boeing quality standard", he added.

The demand of Mushaq air crafts is fast growing, he told. Sri Lanka, Bangla Desh, UAE, Oman, Iran and other countries have placed their orders. 7 planes have been handed over and delivery of 8 more planes will be made this month. More 5 planes will be handed over to Saudi Arabia till September 5, 2005. Machines have been installed to provide spare parts to Boeing company, he informed.

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=104810

 

[Munir]

Perfect updates webmaster. I agree with your remarks about adding pylons. The first part and the most needed part is BVR (after standard WVR like AIM9l/m/p4 or the usual pl5/8 matra magic) and they have pylons for the fueltank and next station next to that. The outer wingstation is not suited for the big BVR. Not yet cause the F16 was modified to get that cause the first thing one fires is the BVR and it is the best to reduce weight on the outer parts of the wing.... We wil see...

After that they will move towards anti surface (missiles rockets and bombs) and they might add double belly launchers for BVR and a2g stores like Gripen. They might add an extra pylon but it depends on the use of CFT in the future... For a small fighter 4 BVR seem to be more then enough but if one adds wingtanks then 2 more stations would coem very handy. Don't forget that JF17 has extra pylons for Atlis like designator... It will be located at the opposite of the gun near the intake. A la gripen.

 

[air marshal]

Perfect updates webmaster. I agree with your remarks about adding pylons. The first part and the most needed part is BVR (after standard WVR like AIM9l/m/p4 or the usual pl5/8 matra magic) and they have pylons for the fueltank and next station next to that. The outer wingstation is not suited for the big BVR. Not yet cause the F16 was modified to get that cause the first thing one fires is the BVR and it is the best to reduce weight on the outer parts of the wing.... We wil see...

After that they will move towards anti surface (missiles rockets and bombs) and they might add double belly launchers for BVR and a2g stores like Gripen. They might add an extra pylon but it depends on the use of CFT in the future... For a small fighter 4 BVR seem to be more then enough but if one adds wingtanks then 2 more stations would coem very handy. Don't forget that JF17 has extra pylons for Atlis like designator... It will be located at the opposite of the gun near the intake. A la gripen.

CFT=College of Flying Training.WVR=?

 

[Munir]

conformal fuel tanks...

within visual range...

 

[ajaybhutani]

Not entirely correct. Where normal controls are busy making aircraft stable the TVC is just adding extra punch in changing direction. It does not much give parameters to FBW and neither does it correct direction for the FBW. If you know that FBW is often switched off while performing extraordinary style you will understand that FBW is not adding magic. With FBW the aircrafts loves to change d
you are talking about "What can a TVC do to a planeirection. Movements of the stick are used to change direction but FBW will make come back to stable flight pattern. If aircraft is stable then stick is changing direction and planes is naturally returning to the same old flight path. It cost energy to change course. Engine control (TVC) adds more power to desired direction.

It is true that extra weight or control of TVC is needed but the reality is whether one needs extra weight when missiles can achive 75G's... Light planes (including mig29) need less weight...

you are talking about "What can a TVC do to performance of a plane and what it cant"
what i am talking about it " what changes are needed to put a TVC in a plane"..
i really cant see any statement of ur post correcting my "not entirely correct" post.
what exact part of my post do you not agree with fully.. ??

 

[melb4aust]

i dont think they are gonna install TVC on thunder, may be may be some time in future. The AC has already crossed its limit of normal budget.

 

[Munir]

Every pound you add to a small plane you will need to overcome this with the much more thrust. A small fighter is very agile and should not need those TVC punishment certainly if it gets HMS and agile WVR missiles. Adding these things to a big 2u27 or F22 make sense... Small planes not.

 

[ajaybhutani]

Great news. I think that withing weeks the full production run of 16 FC1 will start. It was mentionned that is 04 will fly as expected then production will start. That sounds logical cause it takes 9-15 months to get one ready and we all know that first planes will felivered to Pak middle 2007...

one can make 16 planes in next 9-15 months.. but using a single prototype of FC-1..finishing the FC-1 programme .. all the testing ( as most will be redone due to airframe changes).. and weapons integration ... just cannot finish it in 9-15 months....
the newly built ones will go into increasing the testing speed.
furthermore .. the russians still havent officially said yes to RD93 for paksitan.. so till russians say yes or ws13 gets ready and then integrated in FC-1.. FC-1 for pakistan is distant.

 

[melb4aust]

one can make 16 planes in next 9-15 months.. but using a single prototype of FC-1..finishing the FC-1 programme .. all the testing ( as most will be redone due to airframe changes).. and weapons integration ... just cannot finish it in 9-15 months....
the newly built ones will go into increasing the testing speed.
furthermore .. the russians still havent officially said yes to RD93 for paksitan.. so till russians say yes or ws13 gets ready and then integrated in FC-1.. FC-1 for pakistan is distant.

No its not, You will see, man thats China, anything is possible, ofcourse they need to perform few more tests, and they will perform them while staying in the airforce as they better understand their requirments and issues involved with AC, if there will be any.
I wanna remind you one thing as well, there was'nt just one or single prototype tested, infact there 4 four. You better get some information before posting such thing:read: . and yes Russia has already said yes to the deal to provide RD-93 engines to china. Why would they say no, as they have potential buyers, like China, not like India. Any how even if such thing happens, there are lot many options available. So mate i dont see this project getting late, hmmn but im not so sure about LCA:buck: .

 

[Shahin-e-Iqbal]

Assalam u Alaikum brothers
this the first time i have become a member of a forum so here is my first question ,can u tell me about the Jf-17's ECMs

 

[EagleEyes]

I have a feeling that ECM will probably be Chinese including IRTS, etc. Hell may be some of the software configurations.

To add more, we had someone who posted an article translating chinese to english which stated.

It and the ECM on the tail provide joint work. ECM current uses traidtional infrared something? modern missile's countermeasure to this is getting stronger each day. To let this simple and cheap ECM achieve high efficiency shows system's level, RWR, MPR and such. This system is only equipped by rafale and F-22. F-18E/F and F-16E/F needs upgrade to have this. 04 should also have ECM inside of fighter. It uses modern ECM technology and uses precise tracking system. Can achieve the affect of large ECM machine with small equipment. This ECM is most modern active guided AAM. It can also counter gither radar lock and scan. It's mainly for PAF's enemy IAF's R-77 missiles.

Cheers

 

[Kaiser]

Here is some info on the JF-17's avionics

It was speculated that the Pakistani variant of JF-17 will be fitted with the Italian Grifo S-7 fire-control radar. PAC conducted some modification tests on Grifo S-7 radar system to specially designed for the JF-17, with 25 working modes and a non-break-down time of 200 hours. The radar system is capable of look-down/shoot-down operation, as well as for ground strike abilities.

However, with better radar offers from various European sourcrs, it is now most likely that Grifo S-7 will only be installed on early versions of JF-17. While the advance versions will comprise of different & better radars. Pakistani sources also suggest that Pakistan is mostly looking into western avionics to further improve the JF-17's capabilities.

Some avionics and their technology transfer has been discussed with Sweden. In addition to that JF-17 includes new digital dual fly-by-wire (FBW) system and a true beyond visual range (BVR) attack capability. The JF-17 will include a 25° field of view HUD, two multi-function displays and an INS/GPS. - initially specs were not as advanced as it is now for the cost reason. However, the US surdenly decided to sell more advanced F-16s to PAK aiming to kill JF-17/FC-1 project - the project team was forced to improve the specs and make it happen at prototype 04, and they did.

Very Advanced Cockpit - Control panel is consisted by 3 color screens (20.3cm x 20.3 cm) only, all information is processed and displayed on them. the functions of each one is exchangeable. brightness & contrast can be adjusted either automatically or manually. each of the screen can be re-defined. - HUD is also state-of-the-art. many image / information can be displayed at the same time. - HUD is better than that of the latest su-30 for the reason that JF-17/FC-1 can display both raw signal as well as processed information (i.e. more meaningfull) whereas su-30 displays, by and large, raw signals directly.

HOTAS Control

Intelligence Avionics - Avionics system is all digital and fully integrated - distributed structure, two independent but exchangeable (can back-up each other) STD-MTL-1553B data buses connected all equipment, plus two powerful control computers (also can back-up each other). Each computer controls one data bus - only very recent airplanes such as F-16 E/F have similar structure and powerful computers

- Radar. Initially Pakistan wanted to use Grifo ones (Grifo-S2000). However, Chinese one offers key advantages such as compatibility with Chinese weapon systems - Radar has multiple modes, such as A2A (both BVR & close), air to ground, air to sea, etc with strong anti-interference capacity. - it can handle > 40 targets, tracking 10 of them and guiding 2 BVR missiles to attack 2 of them at the same time - the detecting range for a typical air target of RC 3 square metter is > 75 km; looking down range is > 45 km; range for sea target is > 135 km - it has digital map, and is going to have 3D digital map.

- Robust & Advanced Electronic Warfare System - Has all standard electronic warfare systems, such as radar warning, nissile approaching warning, etcs. - the computer can store more than 300 existing radar signals for identification, and actually already stored more than 100 known radar signal partens - 360 degree range for missile approaching warning system with both infra-red & ultra-violet spectrum detecting, very sensitive to "afterburn" of missiles and the detecting range is > 20km. one detecting sensor in the tail and two at the front. moreover, it can provide certain capacity of tracking and positioning the approaching missile.

- JF-17 / FC-1 has a computer controlled infra-red interference bullet (missile?) system, which automatically calculate the right timing (based on the result of detecting system) to release the interference bullets to maximaze the impact. Only recently released airplanes such as F-22 / Rafale have such system. Even F-18E/F and F-16 E/F need further upgrading to acquire such capacity.

- JF-17 also has an "focused interference system", which can beam the enegy on one direction (i.e. attacking missile's guiding system) to distrub it. By doing this, a small equipment can have the same impact as a large electronic warfare airplane in that particular direction. Initially FJ-17 / Fc-1 did not have this system. However, in view of the fact that Pak's potential enemy is IAF equipped with Su-30 & R-77 missiles, CAC add this system into the plane. As of today, non India airplane has such system nor do PAk's f-16s.

- JF-17 has two communication radios. one of them has the capacity for data link, receiving data from either ground control center or AWACS. - all equipment has auto-detection function, i.e. at the time of maintanance, plug in a notebook computer and all working parameters can de displayed in the computer

- Weaponry system is designed to be compatible with both Western systems (i.e. supporting MIL-STD-1760 data bus) and Russian systems (of course Chinese systems as well). at present, its standard missiles are PL-9C for close fight and SD-10 for BVR. However, it also support AIM-9L/M and AIM-7F etcs - every weapon point has the data bus interface, i.e. each point can carry guided weapons. - for ground attacking weapon, already demonstrated laser guided bombs, it is going to have A2G missiles

Overall the JF-17's avionics will be on par with most of today's modern fighters, the outfit considered superior to that of the F-16 a/b but inferior to that of theF-16 c/d

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_T...Weapon_Systems

China has assured pakistan that the RD-93 will be deliverd to pakistan, china is also making its own superior version of the RD-93 called WS-13.

One of the first 4 JF-17's that will be deliverd later this year to pakistan for weapons integration will also be used to integrate various engines from other source presumably the same French engine used on the Mirage-2000 (forgot its name ?)

 

[ajaybhutani]

Now what you say @@@ AJAY:bat: , I said that before n sayin it agian, "you guyz cant see the flourishment and development of Pakistan".

get over this mania of yours. the sooner the better for you.
nts.. ??

There's no need to be jelouse, yeah do more work on LCA to make it better and induct it in your airforce. Simple is that.....

look at who started talking about LCA.. and who is the only person talking about it /wants to talk about it in this thread.....

BTW what exactly do you want to prove with this publically editable link.. ??


For MODS and WebMaster,
Considering the wide range of reasons for which posts get deleted in this forum.. doesnt personal attacks like these deserve an action??

Admin Edit: We know what is acceptable and what is not. Just leave it to us. In this case there is nothing wrong with it.