JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[Quwa]

Some old news pulled out of PakDef archives:

Note this is all from 2003, and if you read through the link...H Khan and Usman Shabbir both confirmed H-4 is/was a BVRAAM.

Pakistan tests indigenous "H-4" BVR Air-to-Air Missile? [Archive] - PakDef Forums

From Jane's Air-Launched Weapons

R-Darter (T-Darter)

A report in 1996 suggested that Kentron may have had a second option in design for a MRAAM; this option uses the V3 Darter airframe with an active radar seeker, the new version being known as R-Darter. Unconfirmed reports have suggested that the Rafael active radar seeker, from Israel, may have been used, but it is also possible that a version of the surface-to-air SAHV-3RS active radar seeker was used. Little factual data is available for R-Darter, but a report in October 1999 suggested that the missile entered low-rate initial production at the end of 1998.

Discussions were reported in early 1999 with Pakistan, concerning the possible joint development of a medium-range air-to-air missile known as T-Darter. It is believed that T-Darter refers to an improved version of R-Darter.

New BVR missile

During November 2001 officials from the Aerospace Division of Pakistan's National Development Complex (NDC) revealed that the agency was working on what was described as 'preliminary studies' for a new medium-range air-to-air missile. While no full-scale hardware has yet been built, it was stated that NDC engineers are investigating several different approaches to the future missile's design. No information is available as to whether the new weapon will be a semi-active radar homing or an active-radar homing AAM, but it is intended for the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air battle. The NDC, based in Islamabad, is Pakistan's main military research and development centre, and is responsible for Pakistan's 'strategic products' - the Shaheen ballistic missile family. The NDC is also heavily involved in the design and production of UAV systems, air-launched weapons development, and missile maintenance and sustainment. It is possible that Pakistan and China are co-operating on the CATIC-led SD-10 active radar BVR missile programme. One likely application for this new weapon is the FC-1/Super 7 multirole fighter, now being jointly developed by China and Pakistan. In April 2003 brief reports appeared in the Pakistani press announcing the airborne test launch of a new BVR air-to-air missile, identified as the H-4. It was stated that the missile had been successfully fired by a Pakistan Air Force Mirage III against a drone target, which was destroyed. No details of the H-4 AAM were released and, co-incidentally, news of this test emerged just days after India announced the first test firing of its new Astra active-radar BVR AAM.

Source: Jane's Air-Launched Weapons 42

I'm not sure about you guys...but I seriously have not heard any official PAF word regarding a confirmed purchase of Mica, except that it was offered. All the PAF did confirm was that JF-17 will be equipped with BVRAAM and a 5th generation WVRAAM. I get the feeling that maybe PAF is looking towards the local industry to develop and manufacture the future BVRAAM and 5th generation WVRAAM...as no official word has come about fully importing either.

With suffecient help from China, South Africa and E.U in various areas...I truly believe Pakistan would be able to roll out modern/contemporary BVRAAM, 5th generation WVRAAM and HMD system that is as good as the stuff from abroad.

Personally...I think we will import IRIS-T for use on the F-16s, but also try to gather some technical assistance from Diehl BGT on a local WVRAAM project. What goes on JF-17 and FC-20 could be local systems.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Back in 2003-2004, there used to be a forum called "PakMil"...and a member there named "chursy". Now this person had very close contact with the Pakistani industry at the time...and from what I can remember, he said:

1) H2 & H4 are precision-guided glide-bombs based off Raptor I and Raptor II.

2) There is (or was) a local BVRAAM project based off T-Darter called "V-4"

...and Flight International reported that during High Mark 2005, the PAF simulated R-Darter use.

I will check on that with my sources Mark.......

Though i know that V-4 named BVRAAM doesnot exit with PAF.

T- Darter based BVRAAM exists but i quoted from a site.

What H-4 is will be revealed shortly.

 

[Quwa]

I will check on that with my sources Mark.......

Though i know that V-4 named BVRAAM doesnot exit with PAF.

T- Darter based BVRAAM exists but i quoted from a site.

What H-4 is will be revealed shortly.

Actually dude, you may be right...I edited the above post...

With regards to at least JF-17's armament...I do not think it is as simple as importing anymore...I think the PAF is seeking the local industry to develop and manufacture the BVRAAMs, WVRAAMs, PGBs/PGMs, etc, and HMD.

An awesome thing would be if we could get a 5th generation WVRAAM such as IRIS-T with full technology-transfer...to allow us to produce the missiles as we wish, and continue development of our own IRIS-T SL medium-range SAM and IDAS sub-launch missiles. Though unlikely Diehl BGT would offer it...but it is possible if we forge up a large enough requirement and agree not to export what we make.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Actually dude, you may be right...I edited the above post...

With regards to at least JF-17's armament...I do not think it is as simple as importing anymore...I think the PAF is seeking the local industry to develop and manufacture the BVRAAMs, WVRAAMs, PGBs/PGMs, etc, and HMD.

An awesome thing would be if we could get a 5th generation WVRAAM such as IRIS-T with full technology-transfer...to allow us to produce the missiles as we wish, and continue development of our own IRIS-T SL medium-range SAM and IDAS sub-launch missiles. Though unlikely Diehl BGT would offer it...but it is possible if we forge up a large enough requirement and agree not to export what we make.

NO way Diehl BGT will agree.

With respect to technology and effectiveness, as per PAF they are going the French way on MRAAM and WVRAAM. MICA is the best solution at this time for PAF as it gives a range of 80+ kms in BVRAAM usage and 500 m in WVRAAM usage.

Consider a JF-17 with 4 MICAs.... In strike and in defence ...very formadiable.

 

[Quwa]

NO way Diehl BGT will agree.

With respect to technology and effectiveness, as per PAF they are going the French way on MRAAM and WVRAAM. MICA is the best solution at this time for PAF as it gives a range of 80+ kms in BVRAAM usage and 500 m in WVRAAM usage.

Consider a JF-17 with 4 MICAs.... In strike and in defence ...very formadiable.

I have yet to see a proper/official PAF statement regarding Spada-2000, MICA and RC400...as of now it seems they are potential options. I am inclined towards more of a local drive..either the BVRAAM and WVRAAM will be procured with local productin, or locally developed.

Ye...Diehl BGT would probably not agree to sharing that much technology...though their assistance in various areas would be good.

 

[fatman17]

I have yet to see a proper/official PAF statement regarding Spada-2000, MICA and RC400...as of now it seems they are potential options. I am inclined towards more of a local drive..either the BVRAAM and WVRAAM will be procured with local productin, or locally developed.

Ye...Diehl BGT would probably not agree to sharing that much technology...though their assistance in various areas would be good.

with the reported JV between Denal and Hindustan Electronics any progress/support/co-operation between Pak and SA seems improbable. the Catic and French options remain viable.

the H-4 does possess capabilites of the R-Darter series. what is the status of this missile in PAF inventory is unknown.

 

[Quwa]

with the reported JV between Denal and Hindustan Electronics any progress/support/co-operation between Pak and SA seems improbable. the Catic and French options remain viable.

Last I checked, India was uninterested in JVs when South Africa and Brazil approached them. Besides, Denel put up Umkhonto-R, A-Darter and R-Darter at IDEAS 2006, and their Guardian HMD was dropped by Gripen. There are 250 PAF JF-17s that will be equipped with HMD, 5th gen. WVRAAM and BVRAAM...as well as PGBs, AShMs and ALCMs.

To join with Pakistan is like a done deal, and given India's track record - why not? The MRCA is around...didn't stop LM, Dassault, EADS or Saab from making deals with Pakistan. Pakistan has initiatives to produce medium-range SAMs as well - a Pakistani system based off a Chinese one competed for the PAF SAM order that MBDA Spada-2000 won.

In the long-run though I think VL-systems are the way to go, and I think the Pakistani industry will come back in a few years with a competetive medium-range SAM. Though to make full and effecient progress, Pakistan will need off-the-shelf help...and I can best see Denel as a provider of significant technology. Denel has the Umkhonto-R and rumoured to have the extended-range Umkhonto-NG - probably a medium-range vertical launch SAM.

 

[PakShaheen79]

And what happens to those 6 Thunders which were supposed to be here in December 07. Are they delayed due to our political situations or not ready yet.

What is status? Please update me. waiting anxiously.

 

[Nishan_101]

to every1 i want to tell u that H-2 H-4 are BVR which are quite advaced they are just hiding it from us . They want to take tech from other(aim-120C5&Mica) to make it more hi-tech so that is why they are buying not bcoz they are not just hi-tech right . in near fututre u ppl will see this that they are much advanced than T-darter or AA-12 IAF's

 

[EagleEyes]

to every1 i want to tell u that H-2 H-4 are BVR which are quite advaced they are just hiding it from us . They want to take tech from other(aim-120C5&Mica) to make it more hi-tech so that is why they are buying not bcoz they are not just hi-tech right . in near fututre u ppl will see this that they are much advanced than T-darter or AA-12 IAF's

Thats a wish, an opinion, an unverified source, and so on.

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think Pakistan will take some time to have that kind of AA weapons which can match AIM-120C /AA-12 / T-Darter. PAF is focusing more on A2G weapons currently. May be a project somewhere on drawing boards. Not nothing solid has come out as yet.

H2/H4 (if they exists at first place) are A2G Weapons. Haven't see any pic of any of them. Is there any one who has witness these weapons.

 

[Quwa]

I think Pakistan will take some time to have that kind of AA weapons which can match AIM-120C /AA-12 / T-Darter. PAF is focusing more on A2G weapons currently. May be a project somewhere on drawing boards. Not nothing solid has come out as yet.

Such projects are already in motion in South Africa and China, I do not see why Pakistan would not produce a AIM-120C5-standard BVRAAM by 2015. The H-4's existence has already been confirmed by PakDef, just we are not clear on whether it is a BVRAAM or A2G glide-bomb...though Usman Shabbir said it was a BVRAAM.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Pak to start JF-17 production from tomorrow​

Updated at Monday, January 21, 2008 1410 PST

ISLAMABAD: A joint production of Pak-China JF-17 thunder jet would be started at Kamra from tomorrow (Tuesday).

Launching ceremony of JF-17 sub assemblies to be held at Pakistan Aeronautical complex Kamra tomorrow. Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood Ahmed will be the chief guest.

Pak to start JF-17 production from tomorrow

 

[salman nedian]

Pak to start JF-17 production from tomorrow​

Updated at Monday, January 21, 2008 1410 PST

ISLAMABAD: A joint production of Pak-China JF-17 thunder jet would be started at Kamra from tomorrow (Tuesday).

Launching ceremony of JF-17 sub assemblies to be held at Pakistan Aeronautical complex Kamra tomorrow. Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood Ahmed will be the chief guest.

Pak to start JF-17 production from tomorrow

Great News

 

[HAIDER]

Congrats all to all Pakistani.

Islamabad, Jan.21 (ANI): A joint production of the Pakistan-China JF-17 thunder jet would be started at Kamra from Tuesday.

Launching ceremony of JF-17 sub assemblies to be held at Pakistan Aeronautical complex Kamra tomorrow. Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood Ahmed will be the chief guest.

The Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder, also known as the Fighter China-1 (FC-1) Fierce Dragon in China. It is a single-seat multirole fighter aircraft developed by China and Pakistan. The first two aircraft were delivered to the Pakistan Air Force in December 2007.

The JF-17/FC-1 is designed to be a cost-effective plane which can meet the tactical and strategic needs of the Pakistani Air Force. Till now, it has been manufactured by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation. Its maiden flight took place on August 25, 2003.

Its primary users are the Pakistan Air Force and the PLA Air Force. Four prototypes plu four have been delivered to Pakistan. Each aircraft costs an estimated 15-20 million American dollars. (ANI)
Pakistan to start JF-17 production from tomorrow - Yahoo! India News