JF-17 Thunder: Made for the PAF

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan Very good find. You deserve a +ve rating for this one

@Oscar Looking forward to your analysis.

Hi,

F22 / F35 is like the 4 minute mile----any and every scientist---who thinks he is any bit worth his salt---is working on ways to find the anecdote to the stealth of the F22 / F35----.

The fascinating thing is that so much information from those works of fiction from the 80's and 90's have come true----and children growing up in homes in Lahore have no clue what has been written and printed out by ex air force personal who have worked in Nevada---and other places---and the U S govt is clueless how to stop these leaks ( and these kids were not even born at that time ).

Even though the later works of Tom Clancy and Dale Brown got marketed towards commercialization---ie sale of books---their original / initial works are true gems of the information about technology that was to yet to invade the shores of the united states of America.

 

[MilSpec]

Hi,

Once it gets to that stage---it will be just a matter of seconds---how far can an aircraft flying at 600 miles mph go in 10 seconds---what is it---300 yds----600 yds in 20 seconds.

The aircraft won't make any instant changes in trajectory---it does not want to increase its cross section---does not want to create an anomaly----.

The missile has to be launched within a certain distance of a targeted aircraft---because that is the range of that missile---where it s launched at---that is the point of origin---and then the relative speed of the missile at launch is the relative speed of that aircraft---

Here is the thing now---it is a game of survival for the air forces that cannot afford F35 / F22 kind of technology----. So---they will find ways and means to overcome that hurdle----air borne radars and detectors----and smarter missiles---.

What if your launch your load of 8 or 12 PL15's at the F22----you have your awacs at hand---you have your own radar---your growler type support aircraft also is looking---your ground radar is also in the game

It is stated that the F 22 has evaded about 1000 missile in training---but I have yet to read how many times it had 20---24 BVR missiles launched at it at the same time---and it evaded all of them at the same time----.

ok,

lets break it down.... assume your aircraft detects a launch from an f22 (all aspect stealth) at 35kms.

Your aircraft Launches a PL15 at the same - direction with a OLS sensor.

It will take the missile at mach 4 speed i.e 1.372km/sec.... so to traverse 35kms it will tale the missile 25.51 seconds.

Now lets see where the f22 can be in 25.51 sec at a measly 1 mach i.e 0.343km/sec supercruise speed. 8.749 kms from the supposed target zone.

Assume the F22 doesn't worry at all, and decides not have any erratic maneuvers. and take any straight path between a 45 degree envelope of it's current axis (90 total)....


Take a radius of 8.79 kms, 13.8 kms in arc length just in the X plane...

So the location of the aircraft could be anywhere in that 13.8 km radius, assuming the f22 driver didn't event care to change his altitude.

no matter how many OLS and FLIR's you put in there, you won't see a a sliver of that f22, but mst likely the same f22 that you launched against will with ease guide another AIM120 to you....

And this mighty complication is just at the horizontal plane, I haven't even considered the vertical altitude traverse. In reality that 13.8 can be in any plane the F22 choses to be in.

Projecting this 16.87km as the diameter of a cone If you give it a x and y plane you are looking at an instantaneous cross sectional area of 149.5 sq kms base cone with aircraft origin being vertex and the f22 can be at any point within that 149.5 sq km,

So I am sorry mastan sir, I disagree with your hypothesis.

@Oscar what is your take on this intuitive BVR -missile brain?

 

[Indus Falcon]

ok,

lets break it down.... assume your aircraft detects a launch from an f22 (all aspect stealth) at 35kms.

Your aircraft Launches a PL15 at the same - direction with a OLS sensor.

It will take the missile at mach 4 speed i.e 1.372km/sec.... so to traverse 35kms it will tale the missile 48.02 seconds.

Now lets see where the f22 can be in 48.02 sec at a measly 1 mach i.e 0.343km/sec supercruise speed. 16.46 kms from the supposed target zone.

Assume the F22 doesn't worry at all, and decides not have any erratic maneuvers. and take any straight path between a 60 degree envelope....


Take a radius of 16 kms, and your arc area 136.5 sq kms and 16.87kms in arc length just in the X plane...

So the location of the aircraft could be anywhere in that 16.87km radius, assuming the f22 driver didn't event care to change his altitude.

no matter how many OLS and FLIR's you put in there, you won't see a a sliver of that f22, but mst likely the same f22 that you launched against will with ease guide another AIM120 to you....

And this mighty complication is just at the horizontal plane, I haven't even considered the vertical altitude traverse. In reality that 16.87 can be in any plane the F22 choses to be in.

So how was this pic taken???????

 

[MilSpec]

So how was this pic taken???????
View attachment 262637

and that proves what, you will shot it down with a PL15 if you have better equation of intuitive intercepting of a stealth a/c , please go ahead , I am all ears.

 

[Indus Falcon]

and that proves what, you will shot it down with a PL15 if you have better equation of intuitive intercepting of a stealth a/c , please go ahead , I am all ears.

PL15, maybe, maybe not. I haven't seen the specs yet, so I can't won't comment on it. But basic common sense, IF it can be seen, it can be hit.

The latest feature of most new, or upgraded missiles is guidance, after launch.

 

[Anna Scott]

JF-17 is the product of Pakistan China engineers. Its good overall in fighter planes ranking. But I don't know JF-17 is more advanced than F-16 ?

 

[MilSpec]

PL15, maybe, maybe not. I haven't seen the specs yet, so I can't won't comment on it. But basic common sense, IF it can be seen, it can be hit.

The latest feature of most new, or upgraded missiles is guidance, after launch.

tellme this at what ranges does a FLIR/irst track a target? What about Boeing Topcoat for IR sig mgmt,
And only an idiot would go close enough to a raptor to try and target it with an OLS/IRST, becuase you might lose sight of that vectoring raptor, but he wont not even for a second....

No sane pilot will go close to a raptor based on this "tukka lagoa and hope it sticks" philosophy.

 

[Indus Falcon]

no matter how many OLS and FLIR's you put in there, you won't see a a sliver of that f22, but mst likely the same f22 that you launched against will with ease guide another AIM120 to you....

Hey guess what? That's more than a "sliver" of an F22!!!

 

[MastanKhan]

ok,

lets break it down.... assume your aircraft detects a launch from an f22 (all aspect stealth) at 35kms.

Your aircraft Launches a PL15 at the same - direction with a OLS sensor.

It will take the missile at mach 4 speed i.e 1.372km/sec.... so to traverse 35kms it will tale the missile 48.02 seconds.

Now lets see where the f22 can be in 48.02 sec at a measly 1 mach i.e 0.343km/sec supercruise speed. 16.46 kms from the supposed target zone.

Assume the F22 doesn't worry at all, and decides not have any erratic maneuvers. and take any straight path between a 60 degree envelope....


Take a radius of 16 kms, and your arc area 136.5 sq kms and 16.87kms in arc length just in the X plane...

So the location of the aircraft could be anywhere in that 16.87km radius, assuming the f22 driver didn't event care to change his altitude.

no matter how many OLS and FLIR's you put in there, you won't see a a sliver of that f22, but mst likely the same f22 that you launched against will with ease guide another AIM120 to you....

And this mighty complication is just at the horizontal plane, I haven't even considered the vertical altitude traverse. In reality that 16.87 can be in any plane the F22 choses to be in.

Projecting this 16.87km as the diameter of a cone If you give it a x and y plane you are looking at an instantaneous cross sectional area of 223.408 sq kms base cone with aircraft origin being vertex and the f22 can be at any point within that 223.408 sq km,

So I am sorry mastan sir, I disagree with your hypothesis.

@Oscar what is your take on this intuitive BVR -missile brain?

Hi,

It won't be ' A " missile----it will be a volley of missile---maybe half a load of two aircraft----or a full load of two aircraft.

Disagreeing is fine---I don't have a problem with it---. It is just a matter of time---.

 

[MilSpec]

Hey guess what? That's more than a "sliver" of an F22!!!

View attachment 262638

are you trolling, wrap your head around what the topic at hand is before posting useless pics taken in exercises.

Hi,

It won't be ' A " missile----it will be a volley of missile---maybe half a load of two aircraft----or a full load of two aircraft.

Disagreeing is fine---I don't have a problem with it---. It is just a matter of time---.

Guess how many missiles you would need to saturate 223 sq kms? or even a simple 16.86 km arc?

be as generous as you can be for the warhead kill zone.

More importantly do you realize what the Physical problem really is to what you propose?

 

[MastanKhan]

tellme this at what ranges does a FLIR/irst track a target? What about Boeing Topcoat for IR sig mgmt,
And only an idiot would go close enough to a raptor to try and target it with an OLS/IRST, becuase you might lose sight of that vectoring raptor, but he wont not even for a second....

No sane pilot will go close to a raptor based on this "tukka lagoa and hope it sticks" philosophy.

Hi,

Sir---I think you are ill informed----getting close to the Raptor is the real goal---that is where the Raptor is vulnerable---.

Raptor is a shoot and scoot from a long distance type of aircraft---. That is what the manufacturer claims it to be---are you saying otherwise.

 

[Indus Falcon]

are you trolling, wrap your head around what the topic at hand is before posting useless pics taken in exercises.

Don't need to troll, you just proved to the forum how much you really know! Why don't you admit it IRST is the death of stealth, and you are seriously mis-informed!!

 

[MastanKhan]

are you trolling, wrap your head around what the topic at hand is before posting useless pics taken in exercises.


Guess how many missiles you would need to saturate 223 sq kms? or even a simple 16.86 km arc?

be as generous as you can be for the warhead kill zone.

Hi,

Proximity fuse triggered within 150---200 yards radius is deadly for the aircraft----. Current missiles do not need to hit the aircraft---.

 

[MilSpec]

View attachment 262639

Don't need to troll, you just proved to the forum how much you really know! Why don't you admit it IRST is the death of stealth, and you are seriously mis-informed!!

No point in discussing wwith, you, you are here to teach not to learn.
thanks

Hi,

Proximity fuse triggered within 150---200 yards radius is deadly for the aircraft----. Current missiles do not need to hit the aircraft---.

22kg pre-fragmented warhead will affect 200 yards, are you sure about that.

 

[Indus Falcon]

No point in discussing wwith, you, you are here to teach not to learn.
thanks

tellme this at what ranges does a FLIR/irst track a target? What about Boeing Topcoat for IR sig mgmt,
And only an idiot would go close enough to a raptor to try and target it with an OLS/IRST, becuase you might lose sight of that vectoring raptor, but he wont not even for a second....

No sane pilot will go close to a raptor based on this "tukka lagoa and hope it sticks" philosophy.

Do tell me at what ranges does a FLIR/IRST track a target?