JF-17 has edge over LCA: Pak officials

[Kasrkin]

First of all no links provided.

You need to have a paid Janes subscription to access these files. The fact that I’ve quoted the relevant extract word to word should be enough for you.

Second Jf-17 uses RD93 A DERIVATIVE OF RD 33 which China license produce so sale to any other country requires permission of Russia and if russia deemed that it affecting their market they will refuse.So unless China develops engine on it's own it is unlikely to be a major contender.

Janes makes explicitly clear that it is a major contender. I’m afraid you can’t dispute that, as far as the engine hiccough went, that has been addressed in the report too and the report’s conclusions in regards to the JF-17 superior potential compared to the LCA still stands.

Despite the joint production agreement, the JF-17 multirole fighter programme has run into difficulty over the issue of engine supply to Pakistan. The FC-1/JF-17 was designed to use the Klimov RD-93 engine. However, although Russia has agreed to export the engine to China, it has been reluctant to authorise the transfer of the engine to Pakistan. Russia’s reluctance stems from a desire not to endanger its defence relationship with India, which made its position clear in late December 2006, restating its opposition to the transfer of the RD-93 and asking Russia not to supply the engines. Russia has resolved the situation by imposing export conditions on the delivery of the engines to Pakistan, which appears to have allowed the programme to proceed.

So despite India's best efforts to stall the project, we're still going good.

 

[PAFAce]

+1

cost , early availability and supportability are definatly plus points of JF-17 , no arguments.

Technical capabilities are only known when both aircraft's have at least one full operational squadron.

Yes. Nihat, you are a welcome change here. I will address all my posts to you now, not your childish compatriots, who assume the JF-17 will never undergo upgradation.

 

[IceCold]

Watching this thread well over four pages of nothing but a bunch of kids fighting over who's got a better toy is laughable. Listen guys the start article already provides details on things they find JF-17 better over LCA and AM too pointed out the same moreover as far as the capabilities are meant, well one can't compare the two why because LCA is still in development while work for upgrading the JF-17 and finding a european avionics package is still underway. Moreover the engine issue is also a point of concern as far as the JF-17 is concerned.
So lets not derail the thread any further and turn it into another pissing India-vs-Pakistan contest.

 

[IceCold]

i dont know what everyone is arguing about???
the three parameters mentioned help the plane's case on land..but in the air it's only the maneuverability(LCA scores)...the weapons(LCA scores again)...range(JF-17 scores) and the avionics(LCA scores)...that matter....so what is the fuss about?

i am sure JF-17 is a sitting duck for LCA. happy now can we move on.

 

[santa cruz slugg]

Since im new i hopefully this question hasn't been asked like 50 billion times:
I have a question about the price of both of the aircraft.
The Jf-17 block I is supposed to be from 15-20 million which considering its capabilities is dirt cheap. With all of the rumored upgrades... AESA, more powerful engine, Composites, new weaponry, ECM wouldn't the cost of the plane skyrocket to like 25+ million? The Pakistani version is going to be of a high quality than the export versions but that's still a huge increase when you are buying 250+ aircraft
With the Indians jamming as much Israeli content as they can in the LCA its got to be like 35+ million right? Elta Aesa, new engine etc..

 

[sky17]

jf 17 is a reality and lca is still an idea. so no match

 

[aditya_friend]

Your wrong. Perhaps, you dont have facts.

i dont think that you know that til now it doesnt have a fully digitalized fbw

 

[aditya_friend]

Since im new i hopefully this question hasn't been asked like 50 billion times:
I have a question about the price of both of the aircraft.
The Jf-17 block I is supposed to be from 15-20 million which considering its capabilities is dirt cheap. With all of the rumored upgrades... AESA, more powerful engine, Composites, new weaponry, ECM wouldn't the cost of the plane skyrocket to like 25+ million? The Pakistani version is going to be of a high quality than the export versions but that's still a huge increase when you are buying 250+ aircraft
With the Indians jamming as much Israeli content as they can in the LCA its got to be like 35+ million right? Elta Aesa, new engine etc..

absolutely true . how can a 4 gen aircraft cost ridiculously low $15 million .

 

[santa cruz slugg]

I think that the price reflected is reduced for the pakistani military only. There is no way that the export version would be that cheap. But then again China can make things ridiculously cheap.
It is a fourth generation aircraft comparable to the F-16 block 40, its no eurofighter but for the price its a very good deal.

 

[zavis2003]

A funny analysis
JF 17 has really many edges then LCA
Coz it hasnt delta wings and one can found alot of edges on the body frame


Thanks ZAVIS for having so worthy comments

 

[Super Falcon]

You still have no clue do you?

Learn some English and comprehension skills before blabbering and insulting other people.

if you think that still your lca is superior than INSHAHALLAH our jf 17 will show your LCA in skies what it is made of and chinese are not mad to induct JF 17 Thunder heavily any way you will see by your self in future

my dear friends if we bring stars for indians from orbit they will never gonna believe on it so why should we keep them giving facts about JF 17 wn e know JF 17 is better than indian lca not only lcs but better than any 3 gen fighter jet ever produced i hope pakistan will in future give worl with china on new fighter jet superior 4 or 5 gen fighter jet

 

[hj786]

maneuverability(LCA scores)...the weapons(LCA scores again)...range(JF-17 scores) and the avionics(LCA scores)

You don't know what you're talking about, quit typing BS. JF-17 has better sustained manueverability that LCA because it has a cropped delta wing. JF-17 has Chinese weapons which are equivelant to Russian weapons on LCA and better than Indian weapons on LCA. LCA has Indian and israeli avionics, Chinese have more experience making their own avionics than India and Chinese already have examples of israeli avionics so JF-17 arguably has better avionics than LCA. In future JF-17 may have western avionics anyway.

i dont think that you know that til now it doesnt have a fully digitalized fbw

JF-17 always had digitised FBW in pitch axis which was going to be upgraded to FBW in all axis, this was known since 2006. Inside sources have said as of 2007, JF-17 has full FBW in all axis.

Another thing: Mig-29 has no digitised FBW flight control system. LOL, your big bad Mig-29 has NO FBW. By your logic, JF-17 is on par in agility with Mig-29, which is arguably more agile than the F-16. Why do you Indian kids come here typing crap you don't know about?

how can a 4 gen aircraft cost ridiculously low $15 million

Who cares? It does cost approximately 15 million. It is 4th gen. Not one of you Indian kiddie trolls can prove it isn't.

 

[sky17]

its 15 dollars for pakistan because it is built in Pakistan but it will not be for 15 to other countries.

 

[iceman2009]

LCA is 4th generation Fighter which will Acheive IOC in 2010.

JF17 IS A 3RD Generation Fighter which will achive IOC 2009.

Why LCA is 4th & JF17 is only 3RD Generation

LCA is over 50% composites versis JF17 100% ALLOYS..

( All modern fighters are majority composite built) Composites are lighter in weight but much stronger in design.

LCA as Qudruplex digital FBW versis JF17 has single digital FBW.

( Again all 4 GENERATION fighters have either triplex or Quadruplex FBW)

LCA is powered by USA engine from GE404 eventually GE414 VERSIS JF17 powered by russian RD93 engine.

( I think we all know wat PDF members think of Russian hardware already)

USA engines are more reliable thats a fact that even pakistanis won,t deny

" Although JF17 engine has more power"

Radar & Avionics

LCA will start with ELTA 320 radar from Israel ( This radar was picked by Israel AIR FORCE for its SUFI F16 fighters over the APG68)

Versis a Chinease Radar KLJ 7

Finally Weapons.

LCA will carry R73 & R77 as well as Python 4 in first tranche

Versis JF17 will carry PL9 & SD10

___________________________________________________________

The JF17 is cheaper to buy and will acheive IOC 1 year before LCA.

It will come in larger nos far quicker then LCA Tejas...

_____________________________________________________________

But LCA is a true 4 GENERATION fighter already and In current technical details LCA wins as above...

But IAF will receive these in lower nos intially.

LONG TERM LCA will have FAR MORE $$$ MONEY invested in it simply because india,s budget is 5 times that of Pakistan at least.

 

[bushwhacker91]

All I have seen in previous posts, is a non-technical and a rather emotional response.

This article is from GlobalSecurity.com

The LCA is the smallest and the lightest light combat aircraft in world which the is indigenously designed by the India’s ADA. It is planed to replace the aging Mig 21 series aircraft and be front line mulitmission single seat tactical aircraft. LCA features State of the art avionics and beyond the visual range system including advanced fly-by-wire system.
The JF 17 is a joint project between China and Pakistan and the plane features as a all weather multipurpose light fighter and the aircraft is features with up to date avionics with only medium range missiles, but is also capable of carrying air to air missiles.
Considering the Beyond Visual Range capability of the two fighters, the LCA beats the JF 17 by a light year mainly because Pakistan is used to getting the job done with Sparrows and JF 17 is only equiped with SD 10s. LCA is equipped to carry all the next generation missiles that the SU 30mki carries along with the capability of carrying several advanced BVR missiles like AA-10 Alamo, AA-12 Adder, MICA and maybe even Derby. But the main component is the India’s own Indigenous BVR missile, Astra.
Moving on to good old dogfighting. To compare between the two on dogfighting criteria it is a little bit shaky. LCA has delta wings and no tailplanes; considering this fact LCA is more agile and maneuverable.
FC 1 will be equipped with AIM-9x and Sidewinder missiles. On the contrary LCA will be equipped AA-11 Archer, AIM-9p and with the extremely lethal Israeli Python 4 and 5.We clearly have winner in Avionics; LCA.

From Globalsecurity:


The glass cockpit and hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls reduce pilot workload. Accurate navigation and weapon aiming information on the head up display helps the pilot achieve his mission effectively. The multifunction displays provide information on engine, hydraulics, electrical, flight control and environmental control system on a need-to-know basis along with basic flight and tactical information. Dual redundant display processors (DP) generate computer-generated imagery on these displays. The pilot interacts with the complex avionics systems through a simple multifunction keyboard, and function and sensor selection panels. A state-of-the-art multi-mode radar (MMR), laser designator pod (LDP), forward looking infra-red (FLIR) and other opto-electronic sensors provide accurate target information to enhance kill probabilities. A ring laser gyro (RLG)-based inertial navigation system (INS), provides accurate navigation guidance to the pilot. An advanced electronic warfare (EW) suite enhances the aircraft survivability during deep penetration and combat. Secure and jam-resistant communication systems, such as IFF, VHF/UHF and air-to-air/air-to-ground data link are provided as a part of the avionics suite. All these systems are integrated on three 1553B buses by a centralised 32-bit mission computer (MC) with high throughput which performs weapon computations and flight management, and reconfiguration/redundancy management. Reversionary mission functions are provided by a control and coding unit (CCU). Most of these subsystems have been developed indigenously.

Avionic info on the JF 17 is very vague. From Globalsecurity:

The aircraft has the ability to engage targets at all speeds and altitudes within the conventional flying envelope. In the surface attack and interdiction role, the aircraft can strike at long distances. The combat jet has been installed with an advanced flight control system, which is a mix of conventional and fly-by-wire controls, making it highly agile and maneuverable.

In conclusion it is very hard to say which fighter plane has the edge but we can clearly see that LCA has better avionics and BVR making it a better futuristic thus a 4.5 Generation aircraft while the JF 17 is still considered a 4th Generation. But both aircrafts ae good start for both the countries.