JF-17 "Extremely close" to the MIG-29: Mikhail Pogosyan

[shanixee]

Guys their is 1 more thing india has that JF 17 nor F16 has...this weapon has far more lethal then SU30 and MRCA. i bet it can bet the hell out of JF17

here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0T0pejEN0...layer_embedded#!

 

[linkinpark]

So as per your logic, f-16 which is tested with universal weapons, sensors from many regions because it did not have enough weapons at its disposal from US? Strange indeed

Remember the word MULTIROLE for JFT. The whole JFT project revolves around it. Clients will have a choice in almost every domain from engine to avionics, from radar to weapons. Only the f-16 has provided this flexibility to its customers and JFT is destined to follow the same route. Integration of different weapons and sensors from various sources is never a bad option buddy.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't talk about non-availability of weapons to Pakistan from all over the universe. All I said that it will take time to test all these weapons and integration and optmization with the existing or future radars. Only after testing all these weapons that you can compare it to Mig-29's capability to fire various combinations of russian weapons that are already tested.

 

[linkinpark]

So the Pakistani Air Force is going to indict 250 "paper tigers" in the near future now, hurray! How come you guys were still celebrating when you heard the news that the Russians might stop the RD-93 sales? Doesn't this prove, indirectly, the JF-17's true capabilities?

Until the JF-17 Block II flies with all the specs that people here are touting will remain just specs on the paper.

I for never celebrated about the news of stopping of Russian engines. I was an advocate of selling of those smoky and underpowered engines to Pakistanis.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Until the JF-17 Block II flies with all the specs that people here are touting will remain just specs on the paper.

I for never celebrated about the news of stopping of Russian engines. I was an advocate of selling of those smoky and underpowered engines to Pakistanis.

The same "smoky and underpowered engine" derived from the Mig-29 engine? That is a bit harsh, don't you think?

Klimov RD-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[anathema]

Until the JF-17 Block II flies with all the specs that people here are touting will remain just specs on the paper.

I for never celebrated about the news of stopping of Russian engines. I was an advocate of selling of those smoky and underpowered engines to Pakistanis.

Just to set records straight -

JF17 will not be getting the IAF smoky, underpowered engines..they will be getting the advanced version RD93 i believe -- non smoky and more thrust....
Based on hearsay, it makes the TWR ration 1:1 (its not yet published).

 

[anathema]

The same "smoky and underpowered engine" derived from the Mig-29 engine? That is a bit harsh, don't you think?

Klimov RD-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RD33 has that problem of being smoky...IAF has that issue however it wont be there after the upgrades.

 

[linkinpark]

Just to set records straight -

JF17 will not be getting the IAF smoky, underpowered engines..they will be getting the advanced version RD93 i believe -- non smoky and more thrust....
Based on hearsay, it makes the TWR ration 1:1 (its not yet published).

Let hearsay be hearsay. Let's discuss based on available facts.

 

[anathema]

Let hearsay be hearsay. Let's discuss based on available facts.

Fair enough ...however JF17 is receiving the upgraded RD33 engines (RD93) non smoky.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Let hearsay be hearsay. Let's discuss based on available facts.

I am all for fact based discussions as long as it doesn't escalate into a pissing contest.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Guys their is 1 more thing india has that JF 17 nor F16 has...this weapon has far more lethal then SU30 and MRCA. i bet it can bet the hell out of JF17

here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0T0pejEN0...layer_embedded#!

 

[Dazzler]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't talk about non-availability of weapons to Pakistan from all over the universe. All I said that it will take time to test all these weapons and integration and optmization with the existing or future radars. Only after testing all these weapons that you can compare it to Mig-29's capability to fire various combinations of russian weapons that are already tested.

I just picked your intention and clarified before you would jump to next "logical" conclusion.

Still, i feel a little embarrassed when JFT is compared with the ever troublesome Mig-29 and its long perturbing history. So many flaws in since its birth and Russians fooled them selves by putting faulty equipment again and again. Self deceit anyone?

 

[Manticore]

Here is a post of a guy who apparently was an USAF pilot on exchange with German Luftwaffe. He flew MiG-29 for couple years. Here is his impression (rather critical) :

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1836-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-30.html

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=155456#155456

MiGs Are Crap And Are Fading Away

Malaysia to phase out troublesome MiG-29 fighters

 

[Quwa]

Another look at the KLJ-7's range based on 5m2 RCS target:

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/641/2r70vgw.jpg

Look up: ≥105km
Look down: ≥85km
Tracks 10 targets
Engages 2

PS: These are export stats.

Compared to Zhuk ME:

The radar features improved signal processing and has a detection range of up to 120 km vs a 5 m2 RCS target for the export variant, and up to 10 targets tracked and up to 4 attacked at once in air to air mode

What was that about MiG-29SMT being "leagues" ahead? I'm sure such insignificant differences within South Asia are going to make the "leagues ahead" impact...Indian exaggeration, keep it in Bollywood please.

That said, KLJ-7 sets the minimum bar for all other successor radars. Do people seriously think PAF will stick to 105km+ (for 5m2) for the next block (to enter production in 2 years)? Vixen 500E might be great for L-15 trainer, but definitely not JF-17 - PAF will have to evaluate for higher performance & longer-range models.

 

[Indian-Devil]

I am going to say something that maybe i shouldn't but to shut some members once and for all...

The actual RCS of JFT is Classified but what i know, it is MUCH less than even the Falcons and goes in mere fractions! To such an extent that during simulated engagements, Falcon pilots were having difficulty to trace it ! The biggest contribution to this is the DSI intake which reduces the RCS to a great extent. About the radar, KLJ-7 is based on RP-35 zhemchug series which itself was specifically made as a high performance, multirole radar for Mig-35. Though still mechanical pulse doppler, it is one hell of a radar that includes technologies from IAFs favorite ELAT 2032 and RP-35s joined by Chinese expertise in electronics and PCB, micro processors. Keep under estimating this fighter folks, it will benefit us. On the topic, MIG-29 versions before the SMT are inferior to JFT in terms of avionics, radar, weapon and sensor fusion. This is a reality that India at the moment DOES NOT have any SMTS and till they do, theirs are inferior to JFT. Bitter pill to swallow for them but i trust my source a lot.

Would you care to post ur source here or that is also secret ???

 

[graphican]

Well we don't know what Egyptians want. May be they want Jf-17 as lo in hi-lo mix and hi being Mig-29 or F-16s. And what makes you to think that Egypt will still not buy Mig-29s?. It is still negotiating and so there is possibility that it can buy. And also if Egypt is in negotiations in JF-17 doesn't mean it will buy. So, there is possibility of anything to happen for which we have no answers right now.

This is typical Indian logic. Contradicting self-statement all in one post.

In my opinion, in performance, JFT is still a mystery. I trust Nabil and what he mentions but like many Indians, it is also hard for me to believe we have got almost everything we wanted and all so early? I don't know.. may be we were blessed by Diving Help or what.. but like many Indians who are surprised.. I am also surprised.

But there are parameters to see if JFT is indeed that much success as we like to imagine and its the international interest of countries that helps me decide.

On the side note, since PAF is happy having only F-16s, J-10s and JFTs, it looks like it feels confident that this will be enough to defend this motherland against Indian Flankers and MIGs. This aspect also speaks volumes about performance of J-10s and JFTs. So even though it is hard, I would like to believe that JFT is indeed as good as we are expecting it to be.