JF-17 "Extremely close" to the MIG-29: Mikhail Pogosyan

[linkinpark]

Egypt has money, can buy Mig-29s very easily.

Egypt is not a rag tag militia led country or has some inferior enemy.

So now tell me why is Egypt negotiating for FC-1/JF-17s ?? When it can very easily buy Mig-29 or even Mig-35s ??

Do tell with logical statements.

Well we don't know what Egyptians want. May be they want Jf-17 as lo in hi-lo mix and hi being Mig-29 or F-16s. And what makes you to think that Egypt will still not buy Mig-29s?. It is still negotiating and so there is possibility that it can buy. And also if Egypt is in negotiations in JF-17 doesn't mean it will buy. So, there is possibility of anything to happen for which we have no answers right now.

 

[Dazzler]

First let me start with Thrust/weight ratio as it is important for the maneuverability of the aircraft. Mig-29 has T/W of 1.09 which make it capable of doing extreme maneuvers like vertical loops, pulling vertical Gs while T/W of JF-17 is around 0.95 or so making its T/W less than critical and render it capable of doing extreme maneuvers like Mig-29. These maneuvers are very important for close-combat scenarios or when it has to evade enemy missiles or missile lock.

MiG-29 FULCRUM
FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder


Mig-29 SMT also has latest avionics as any other latest 4G aircraft. Zhuk-ME radar on Mig-29 provides a range of 120km vs Klj-7 radar of JF-17 for a 5m2 target. Mig-29 also has latest and comparable avionics like IRST, HMS, HOTAS, FCS, ECMs etc.

Mig-29 has
high payload capacity - 4200kg vs 3600 kg of JF-17
high maximum speed - Mach 2.25 vs Mach 1.8 of JF-17
high-G - 9G vs 8G of JF-17

I have also posted two videos to prove the exceptional maneuverability of Mig-29 which JF-17 is not capable of or not shown so far.

YouTube - Mig 29 - Loop
YouTube - Mig 29 - 6G Blackout !

And Mig-29 has the versatility to fire a number of combination of russian weapons while the current JF-17 is integrated with only a handful of weapons.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/Sv8xaNPr-RI/AAAAAAAABN8/bSXJ_J_bTCw/s1600/MiG-29UPG-2.jpg

Oh man!! how ridiculous one can get.

How many years since Mig 29 was first inducted? 30 or so i presume and how many years since JFT is inducted? 3 only and still it is being integrated with Pakistani, Chinese, French, South African, Brazilian weapons ! Mig-29 throughout its lifetime will not see such a universal weapon testing buddy !!

 

[Gucci]

Oh man!! how ridiculous one can get.

How many years since Mig 29 was first inducted? 30 or so i presume and how many years since JFT is inducted? 3 only and still it is being integrated with Pakistani, Chinese, French, South African, Brazilian weapons ! Mig-29 throughout its lifetime will not see such a universal weapon testing buddy !!

so what does this mean,aircraft undergoes various changes.mig 21 underwent surgery with israeli upgrades

 

[Pk_Thunder]

Sorry for off topic question....Nabil bhai,will the jf17 future blocks be able to use the AMRAAMs?...

 

[muse]

Indian has come to teach the Russian why the Russian is wrong and the Indian right. Why? Why is it so important to the Indian? Because the Idian thinks less and feels more, and the Indian feels more when Pakistan or anything to do with Pakistan is involved - this is an expression of the Indians "confidence".

Alas, the Indian shows more confidence in the Russian than the Russian does in his own creation. Make sense? Only to Indians

 

[linkinpark]

Oh man!! how ridiculous one can get.

How many years since Mig 29 was first inducted? 30 or so i presume and how many years since JFT is inducted? 3 only and still it is being integrated with Pakistani, Chinese, French, South African, Brazilian weapons ! Mig-29 throughout its lifetime will not see such a universal weapon testing buddy !!

Compare Mig-29 and JF-17 when JF-17 finishes all those weapons trials and then come back and discuss.

Mig-29 doesn't have to test all the weapons form through out the universe because it has specific roles assigned that of first-line of defense as a interceptor and a second-line of offense. And it has enough weapons system to do the job that it is assigned to do it.

 

[linkinpark]

It is amazing that many posters are trying to compare a paper tiger (JF-17 block II) to a mature fighter and also declaring the paper tiger as superior to the existing mature fighter. How ridiculous can this get??

 

[linkinpark]

Indian has come to teach the Russian why the Russian is wrong and the Indian right. Why? Why is it so important to the Indian? Because the Idian thinks less and feels more, and the Indian feels more when Pakistan or anything to do with Pakistan is involved - this is an expression of the Indians "confidence".

Alas, the Indian shows more confidence in the Russian than the Russian does in his own creation. Make sense? Only to Indians

Just like when Pakistan feel they have more (JF-17 Block II) when they have less (JF-17 Block I)??? Its like "counting the chickens before they hatch".

 

[Dazzler]

Compare Mig-29 and JF-17 when JF-17 finishes all those weapons trials and then come back and discuss.

Mig-29 doesn't have to test all the weapons form through out the universe because it has specific roles assigned that of first-line of defense as a interceptor and a second-line of offense. And it has enough weapons system to do the job that it is assigned to do it.

So as per your logic, f-16 which is tested with universal weapons, sensors from many regions because it did not have enough weapons at its disposal from US? Strange indeed

Remember the word MULTIROLE for JFT. The whole JFT project revolves around it. Clients will have a choice in almost every domain from engine to avionics, from radar to weapons. Only the f-16 has provided this flexibility to its customers and JFT is destined to follow the same route. Integration of different weapons and sensors from various sources is never a bad option buddy.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Sorry for off topic question....Nabil bhai,will the jf17 future blocks be able to use the AMRAAMs?...

The current JF-17 is already capable of using AMRAAMs (PL-12).

It is amazing that many posters are trying to compare a paper tiger (JF-17 block II) to a mature fighter and also declaring the paper tiger as superior to the existing mature fighter. How ridiculous can this get??

So the Pakistani Air Force is going to indict 250 "paper tigers" in the near future now, hurray! How come you guys were still celebrating when you heard the news that the Russians might stop the RD-93 sales? Doesn't this prove, indirectly, the JF-17's true capabilities?

 

[SQ8]

Just like when Pakistan feel they have more (JF-17 Block II) when they have less (JF-17 Block I)??? Its like "counting the chickens before they hatch".

Still manages to give you an itch in your arse doesn't it, a big one you have been trying from the start of the thread to scratch out..
" I tried so hard.. and got so far(in).. but in the end.. it doesn't even matter( what crap I come up with)..

And nabil.. lets keep the RCS bit out.. otherwise they'll start to bring in the LCA to weigh it out, since only the most deprived idiot would like to talk about the RCS of the Mig-29..
However.. the signals processor in production KJL-7's is supposedly a Chinese ripoff of a Texas instruments DSP..still pretty effective.
And here's the answer to Pk_thunder.. Since the Thunder uses a MIL-STD bus compatible with the AMRAAM.. the processor on the thunder allows for newer weapons to be integrated pretty easily.. almost like installing new hardware on ur pc..

 

[Fedayeen]

First let me start with Thrust/weight ratio as it is important for the maneuverability of the aircraft. Mig-29 has T/W of 1.09 which make it capable of doing extreme maneuvers like vertical loops, pulling vertical Gs while T/W of JF-17 is around 0.95 or so making its T/W less than critical and render it capable of doing extreme maneuvers like Mig-29....

Very true.....trust to weight ratio is very important (higher than 1 means you can accelerate vertically) and you need that extra power for acceleration and to maintain an altitude (or even gain altitude) and without loosing airspeed during extreme manoeuvers but what is more vital than that is having a low wing loading (ratio of aircraft weight to wing area) and excellent flight control system (CAS) on a well designed airframe. This way the pilot can make inputs into a flight control system that measures everything from outside temperature to actual airspeed and apply automatically exact deflections required from pilot stick input. This way the pilot can fly the aircraft to the limit of its capabilities without loosing control.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So the Pakistani Air Force is going to indict 250 "paper tigers" in the near future now, hurray! How come you guys were still celebrating when you heard the news that the Russians might stop the RD-93 sales? Doesn't this prove, indirectly, the JF-17's true capabilities?

good point.


moreover, what you really should be asking is, why didn't Russian heed to the angry demands of one of its primary arms customers

 

[linkinpark]

This is a reality that India at the moment DOES NOT have any SMTS and till they do, theirs are inferior to JFT. Bitter pill to swallow for them but i trust my source a lot.

The up-gradation of Mig-29s has already started last year and will finish by 2013. Please don't compare Chinese avionics that you have now to Russian avionics. If Chinese avionics were so good you wouldn't have gone for western avionics. Despite avionics, Mig-29 has superior maneuvering capabilities, payload capacity and speed compared to JF-17.

 

[Dazzler]

Still manages to give you an itch in your arse doesn't it, a big one you have been trying from the start of the thread to scratch out..
" I tried so hard.. and got so far(in).. but in the end.. it doesn't even matter( what crap I come up with)..

And nabil.. lets keep the RCS bit out.. otherwise they'll start to bring in the LCA to weigh it out, since only the most deprived idiot would like to talk about the RCS of the Mig-29..

Look back a few pages and you will know who brought the RCS bit into discussion. Indian members just cannot bear the pain of JFT in service any more !