JF-17 "Extremely close" to the MIG-29: Mikhail Pogosyan

[siegecrossbow]

Taimi sir it would better if you mention for whom you post that



The jf is mainly designed to be a interceptor/air-defence rather than multi-role
Considering it payload and range. But some members are here arguing that block 1 is meant to the role of air to ground role

Actually I respectfully disagree with that statement. The JF-17, which only has a single engine and could reach a max speed of Mach 1.8, would make a terrible interceptor. Look like the Russian Mig-25 and Mig-31. Both are twin engined and emphasis speed (close to Mach 3) over agility. The concept of interceptor aircraft itself is a bit outdated since strategic bombers, the primary target of interceptors, are in decline.

The JF-17 is certainly designed to be a multi-role fighter but a greater emphasis is placed on air to air combat. Judging from the JF-17's arsenal (which include anti-ship and precision guided gliding bombs) the plane does satisfy the "multi-role" requirement but you can't expect a light fighter to be as capable as a dedicated heavy fighter platform like the Su-30.

 

[Donatello]

The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode.

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

Would you please stop bringing in the same nonsense again?


If a radar can look at 3m2 RCS target from 75 Km, then what about a 5m2 RCS and then the 10m2 SU30MKI??

Radio waves don't just stop traveling, they dissipate more and more.

 

[gowthamraj]

What really seems to be rubbing the Indians the wrong way is that Russians are saying the JFT is giving the MiG29 a run for it's money - Indians are just "customers" of the MiG29, it seems their "confidence" has taken a hit. Indians, it seems, are experiencing a great deal of heart burn that Russians think the JFT and the MiG29 are in the same league, as "customers", the Indian seem to be expressing the need to justify their purchase, but they don't need to, they know their needs and short comings better than most, even better than the Russian, it would seem.

No it's not like that


If we INDIANs say our lca is par with f-16. Did you accept. Btw the JF-17 as a new fighter with modern avionics and fly by wire system it always head than mig-29 older versions



But it not good to compare with older ones mig-35 and 29k is good to compete

 

[BATMAN]

Sir in my opinion weapon payload also play a big role as being a multi-role fighter. Other wise it requires high number of sorties during conflict.



Unless SMART BOMB - of usa used otherwise it only make minimal damage in enemy side

With heavy loading, fighter is not much maneuverable and hence require escorts.

Peace time and extensive training also matters and light aircraft with reasonable loading, is more efficient overall.

JFT, Perfectly fits to Pakistan doctrine and remember a/c are primarily made considering local demands not the requirements of potential buyers.
To some customer one type suits and to other another and to some both and to some non but they buy due to strategic restrictions.

 

[gowthamraj]

Actually I respectfully disagree with that statement. The JF-17, which only has a single engine and could reach a max speed of Mach 1.8, would make a terrible interceptor. Look like the Russian Mig-25 and Mig-31. Both are twin engined and emphasis speed (close to Mach 3) over agility. The concept of interceptor aircraft itself is a bit outdated since strategic bombers, the primary target of interceptors, are in decline.

The JF-17 is certainly designed to be a multi-role fighter but a greater emphasis is placed on air to air combat. Judging from the JF-17's arsenal (which include anti-ship and precision guided gliding bombs) the plane does satisfy the "multi-role" requirement but you can't expect a light fighter to be as capable as a dedicated heavy fighter platform like the Su-30.

Good post

Makes sense

 

[mjnaushad]

RCS: Reduced Cross Section and less batter right ?

# Mikoyan MiG-29K - Due to special coatings Mig-29K radar reflecting surface is 4-5 times smaller than of basic MiG-29. RCS to about 0.60-0.75 m2 [24]

# MIG-29SMT with LO enhancement: 1.0~1.2 m2


MiG-29 FULCRUM


Mig-29K's RCS is officially confirmed to be 4-5 times less than a old Mig-29, due to composites & RAM. So taking an average value between 4 & 5 = 4.5. When the unofficial RCS of 5 is divided by 4.5 we get an RCS of 1.11.

fighter planes fighter plane fighterplanes fighterplane military jets militaryjets

not whats the RCS of jf17

In the same article you posted the RCS of JFT is ASSUMED 2.5 or something like that......

Real RCS is never revealed because it is sensitive information about an aircraft.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir in my opinion weapon payload also play a big role as being a multi-role fighter. Other wise it requires high number of sorties during conflict.



Unless SMART BOMB - of usa used otherwise it only make minimal damage in enemy side

US is not the only country with smart bombs / PGMs both laser guided and satellite guided.

China has come up with wide variety of PGMs, even with a Smart bomb version if you are considering the US Smart Diameter bomb.

All you need is the guidance system & kit, after that you can make any simple bomb into whatever you want.

Lot of options coming up in this regard.

 

[INS]

Its range is less, no doubt, but have you guys seen how many Indian air bases and targets are from Pakistani air bases or from the border ?? I believe i had read somewhere, all the major air bases which are Pakistan specific and ground targets are within 300-400KM range of the border, thus JF-17 can very easily go and attack such targets if required. Even if it can't go 300KM deep, it can very easily target things within 200-250KM from the border and plenty of targets would be there.

JF-17 was designed with India in mind, thus it can perform an interceptor role as well as a ground attack role.

.

Ground attack range of a fighter plane is very less than air to air attack range ... I think that was max. 50 km not more than that.

 

[INS]

In the same article you posted the RCS of JFT is ASSUMED 2.5 or something like that......

Real RCS is never revealed because it is sensitive information about an aircraft.

M never post about RCS of jf17 m just post its radar detection range with 3m2 rcs

I dnt know about its RCS

 

[mjnaushad]

Ground attack range of a fighter plane is very less than air to air attack range ... I think that was max. 50 km not more than that.

The H4 glide bomb capable to be fired from JFT can hit target in rage of 120 KM....

 

[muse]

If we INDIANs say our lca is par with f-16. Did you accept

If the designers of F16 say so, what objection can operators of the aircraft have?? And since when is MiG29 Indian? It's Russian, right? and since when f16 Pakistani, It's American, right?

Indians are "feeling more and thinking less", it would seem.

Once more (for effect) Indian heart burn seems to rising as Russians say that JFT is giving MiG29 a run for it's Money. Russians say that JFT is in the same league as MiG29.

Indian does not have any option but to deal with this, no hiding, no evasion, no objection, no angry reponses, just deal with it.

 

[linkinpark]

It does exist! Work on JF17 Block II is going on smoothly and world, which include Russia and Turkey who are playing with world's top weapons, has appreciated JF17.

It is not appreciation from other countries that I'm looking for, I'm looking for open source data. As long as it doesn't come out open, you cannot claim that it exists in open. As far as I'm concerned Block-II doesn't exist based on available reports. If you have contrary reports please post them.

Wait buddy wait! This is not subzi mandi but Arms market where negotiations are behind the curtain.

If negotiations are behind curtain, keep your claims also behind curtain

For you this is expected as everything in Indian ariforce is given whoooohaaaaaaa..... and IAF buying paper pins is made public and everytime their is a celebration.

Its called transparency. It is important that we should let know our enemies what exists in our inventory.

Interesting thing in this video is not pulling of 6G but what happens to pilot during pulling 6g! Had he blacked out in the same way during dog fight then he would have been bye bye!
Also these airshow manuvers are use less in real dogfight where HMS will roast super manver Mig29 alive.

The important thing these videos show is what Mig-29 is capable and how it will fare in close-combat scenarios or during evasion of enemy fire/missiles. Until unless I see these capabilities of JF-17s, all the bombastic claims of maneuverability is just hogwash.

For manuverability F16 is world's renowned fighter plane. Lets see how JF17 prototype competes with it.

Turn rate is not everything among many maneuvers that a fighter can do. Mig-29 has a sustained trun rate of 23 degree/sec which might be little more than F-16 due to its larger size. In that video of F-16 vs JF-17, we don't know what are the speeds (corner velocity), bank angle and the altitude of the fighters . So, comparison is not a correct one unless we know them precisely.

For Verticle loop you have to wait till JF17 participates in any airshow. JF17 is newbie, even then it has made many to have sleepless nights.

Why we have to wait for air shows when it can also be done normally in stand-alone mode?. Did any one stop JF-17 to show its capabilities in Farnborough air show?. Again, as long as such maneuvers are not done or shown, no one will believe the claims of dog-fighter. No body is losing sleep over JF-17 . There are much better fighters that exist in IAF and more to come .

 

[INS]

If the designers of F16 say so, what objection can operators of the aircraft have?? And since when is MiG29 Indian? It's Russian, right? and since when f16 Pakistani, It's American, right?

Indians are "feeling more and thinking less", it would seem.

Once more (for effect) Indian heart burn seems to rising as Russians say that JFT is giving MiG29 a run for it's Money. Russians say that JFT is in the same league as MiG29.

Indian does not have any option but to deal with this, no hiding, no evasion, no objection, no angry reponses, just deal with it.

Ok Sir,
We are ready to deal with it
But first proof this claim cause jf17 is less in money no other advantage it have. (after 20 pages of discussion no one is able to proof that)

 

[TaimiKhan]

Ground attack range of a fighter plane is very less than air to air attack range ... I think that was max. 50 km not more than that.

?????????????????

 

[linkinpark]

If the designers of F16 say so, what objection can operators of the aircraft have?? And since when is MiG29 Indian? It's Russian, right? and since when f16 Pakistani, It's American, right?

Indians are "feeling more and thinking less", it would seem.

Once more (for effect) Indian heart burn seems to rising as Russians say that JFT is giving MiG29 a run for it's Money. Russians say that JFT is in the same league as MiG29.

Indian does not have any option but to deal with this, no hiding, no evasion, no objection, no angry reponses, just deal with it.

India has nothing to lose or worry if JF-17 gives competition to Mig-29. It is for Russia to lose their market. Anyways, we have to see about that when JF-17 first starts selling to other countries. It is not final yet.

Though difference needs to be pointed out that alleged competition between JF-17 and Mig-29 is not based on capabilities but price.