JF-17 "Extremely close" to the MIG-29: Mikhail Pogosyan

[TaimiKhan]

Ok guys, from now if any member came up with what is JF-17 radar or other specifications query, will be thrown out.

Similarly any other kind of rubbish, troll post will get the same treatment.

Don't know about something, go to JF-17 threads or best Google it and find tons of articles telling each and everything.

This thread is about a statement by Russian sources and we are here to discuss that, not other rubbish.

No need for posting the 1 on 1 specifications of both planes and then say hey Mig-29 is 2 engine wala, with more cargo capable and gives longer mileage compared to JF-17 single engine wala jet.

The comparison is being done based on the cost of the jets, the requirement of the airforce which would buy it, the role it is intended to fulfill, what doctrine it is gonna fulfill & what technology both have and are giving to the operator and stuff like that, based on which it is to be seen where and for whom JF-17 is superior and where Mig-29 becomes superior.

Post after getting some basic idea and plzzzz read the first few pages and see what the real discussion was and what is expected out of you guys.

No more trolling would be allowed, straight suspensions or bans would be give, which by the way has already started.

 

[desiman]

ohhh man when we will stop lol Another endless thread on the same topic lol

 

[karan.1970]

Looking at the data on Mig 29 and JF 17 on wiki as you want paper competition.....I dont see much difference...

Both got 7 hardpoints.....Mig got little advantage on speed....Both are BVR capable....Combat radius Mig got a little more....Ferry range JF 17 got a lot more....

+ JF 17 is low maintenance aircraft....I dont knwo about Mig 29.

So a aircraft giving almost same specification on 10 M lower price....Tell me which is better.....


And btw the news is JF 17 is close to Mig 29.....And in this price i'll say its better than Mig 29

I think JFT will need to price itself at the lower end of the Inexpensive fighter jets for a few years while it proves itself. Depending on how it performs over next 4-5 years, it will find its niche in the market.

In my view, all these 13 pages are basically dancing around the fact that JF 17 and Mig 29 have a significant overlap in the target customer segment.

 

[Donatello]

I think JFT will need to price itself at the lower end of the Inexpensive fighter jets for a few years while it proves itself. Depending on how it performs over next 4-5 years, it will find its niche in the market.

In my view, all these 13 pages are basically dancing around the fact that JF 17 and Mig 29 have a significant overlap in the target customer segment.

What you don't realise is that JF-17 is not a fixed combination fighter but rather gives you the flexibility to upgrade. So the money you save, actually 10 million dollars of it per aircraft you can go to your Country of liking and get upgrades for engines/avionics.

For example Egypt has different relations with Russia and China as opposed to Pakistan. French might bow in to pressure from India to top upgrades for PAF but not so much to Egyptians where the money might come in hard and fast.


JF-17 offers flexibility which MIG 29 cannot. You cannot always go to the Russians.

But i guess most members will find that too hard to swallow....

 

[Quwa]

The comparison of JF-17 with future upgrades in mind (which may or may not happen) to an existing mature Mig-29 platform is not at all fair. Its twin engines gives its superior maneuverability owing to high T/W ratio and ability to pull larger Gs. Its powerful radar will give first look first hit capability over JF-17 (Compare KLJ-7 radar of JF-17 vs Zhuk ME radar of Mig-29). And you can forget abut JF-17 matching Mig-29 when it comes to dog fighting skills. So, there is no comparison at all between JF-17 and Mig-29 even if it is one on one or in a formation.

That's not the reality of the situation...is PAF going to stick to the same JF-17 specifications forever? No. In fact, the next major upgrade will enter production in about 2 years...and the current Block-I will comprise the minority of the PAF JF-17 fleet. The JF-17 will have a lighter airframe and a more powerful engine, this will bridge whatever maneuverability gaps quite a bit (and JF-17 is no flying-brick either). That said, does IAF have the newest MiG-29/35 in service? Have all the Mirage 2000s been upgraded, or at least significant portions of the fleet, yet?

Comparing a developing platform to a mature platform is a joke. You are asking me not to troll when you should have instead rebuked the points I made. It is you who are trolling. If you any points to make, do it, otherwise refrain from posting on this.

i am already told to any expert please compare specification

btw j10b is in development so dnt bring it here and current j10 is copy of old Russian aircraft so how thats more advanced that mig 29 SMT can you please explain????

Interesting logic...then I assume the F-35, Rafale, Typhoon, LCA, Gripen NG, etc, are all inferior to the "more advanced" MiG-29 SMT, correct? Lets be serious, the point of in-development fighters is to acquire capabilities and systems that are generally more advanced and better performing than available systems. The J-10B is slated to be a 4+/4.5 generation fighter with AESA and what not right from the get-go; the JF-17 will also be produced as a 4+ generation fighter in about 2 years...acquisition, integration and evaluation of the necessary systems will commence earlier (obviously). As they're 4+ generation fighters, lets stop using the words "leagues ahead" or "leagues behind" when comparing to MiG-35, Su-30MKI, etc, you cannot be leagues away within the same generational stream (its nonsense).

 

[Hulk]

@Taimi When a new member comes and does not know if a thread exist, is it not right to point him to a thread instead if being rude. I also want to know if this rule is applicable to only JF17 or same things applies to people asking same question about LCA, Arjun and Indian Missiles etc?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Did you guys read his title?

"......Russian high quality jets...."


really?


Such high quality that only other nations can dream of....talk about MIG 21, MIG23, MIG27,MIG29 and SU30 and their deadly crashes.


Not to mention Sukhoi crashing jets at almost every airshow...

it is a disservice to berate those aircrafts......they are fantastic machines, especially the fulcrums --which have been in service in SEVERAL countries' Air wings


it seems only the saffron painted ones have issues with crashing; but that is due more in part to HALs utter incompetence at aircraft maintenance, procuring Grade-A spares and anything else related to keeping aircrafts in airworthy condition


hell -- Pakistani pilots were flying Mig-21 when they shot down israily Mirage-III

 

[airuah]

how is it possible to compare a twin engined aircraft - with a single engined aircraft(the engines have yet to be decided finally), with a avionics pakage still in development?

 

[siegecrossbow]

how is it possible to compare a twin engined aircraft - with a single engined aircraft(the engines have yet to be decided finally), with a avionics pakage still in development?

Both MIG-29 and the JF-17 fit under the light-medium fighter category and both cater to nations looking for a light multi-role fighter with reasonable maintenance. Besides the JF-17 has already decided on the RD-93 engine for now (will be replaced by the Chinese WS-13 in the future). The plane comes packaged with Chinese avionics which the Pakistani Air Force could replace with European avionics if they wished.

 

[Quwa]

how is it possible to compare a twin engined aircraft - with a single engined aircraft(the engines have yet to be decided finally), with a avionics pakage still in development?

F-16 shot down MiG-29.

 

[mjnaushad]

@Taimi When a new member comes and does not know if a thread exist, is it not right to point him to a thread instead if being rude. I also want to know if this rule is applicable to only JF17 or same things applies to people asking same question about LCA, Arjun and Indian Missiles etc?

Thats what exactly happend....We pointed him to JF 17 thread. But he started well known habbit of our neighbours "Its not thunder its blunder" kind of sh1t. Even after that post i tried to be nice. But everything has a limit.

 

[Dazzler]

Criteria of superiority for Indians

JFT has one engine

Mig 29 has two

Mig wins hands down...

 

[Donatello]

Thats what exactly happend....We pointed him to JF 17 thread. But he started well known habbit of our neighbours "Its not thunder its blunder" kind of sh1t. Even after that post i tried to be nice. But everything has a limit.

Sir jee,

There is a problem with JF-17 and similar threads. They are so long and 80% of the posts in them are plain spam. So if a newbie comes it is hard for them to go back those hundreds of posts.

I would say either we add a better search tool within the threads or ask people nicely to ask good, constructive and challenging questions.

People who post off topic can have their posts deleted and or banned.

Similarly we can also ignore them.


But again, my point is that it is kinda hard to find information on JF-17 when there were like 2000 posts...

 

[mjnaushad]

Sir jee,

There is a problem with JF-17 and similar threads. They are so long and 80% of the posts in them are plain spam. So if a newbie comes it is hard for them to go back those hundreds of posts.

I would say either we add a better search tool within the threads or ask people nicely to ask good, constructive and challenging questions.

People who post off topic can have their posts deleted and or banned.

Similarly we can also ignore them.


But again, my point is that it is kinda hard to find information on JF-17 when there were like 2000 posts...

Then i guess we should open a new thread in which we answer all the FASQ (Frequently asked stupid question) about JF 17. And then mods close the thread so that it dont start adding hundreds of pages in it.and whenever someone comes up with such question directed to that thread. What ya say?

BTW i have no problem in answering those question again and again but when someone just come with intention of derail. Then i give him what he deserve.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir jee,

There is a problem with JF-17 and similar threads. They are so long and 80% of the posts in them are plain spam. So if a newbie comes it is hard for them to go back those hundreds of posts.

I would say either we add a better search tool within the threads or ask people nicely to ask good, constructive and challenging questions.

People who post off topic can have their posts deleted and or banned.

Similarly we can also ignore them.


But again, my point is that it is kinda hard to find information on JF-17 when there were like 2000 posts...

Well as i said, then you have Google and can use it for getting not one but dozens of articles giving lot of information about it, same information which is available on the forum, difference is we discuss a lot of things, while those articles are precise and upto point for any member to get basic idea of what the platform is.

And even if a member is naive enough, he can go to the JF-17 thread and post his query instead of coming here and doing that, as the topic of the thread says it all, what this thread is all about, so logically his query over here is illogical.

Now plzz continue with the thread.