JF-17 Block II, A Final Thunder & The FC-20 - Updates

[S-A-B-E-R->]

well curchill was heavily armored but never destroyed a tiger !!! protection is useless either create destroyer or tiger class tank with heavy armour and weapons (here armour tends to protection in airwarfare) f22 is not that stealth as people claim it was locked by ef2000 radar which was a pulse doppler now there is aesa !! and pesa!!

sorry for the late reply
dude u r again going on about the fact theat land and air warfair is equal and same which is in correct
f22 was also locked by a f 18 confirmed and i also herd it was locked by f16
but the fact is those were simulated battels ,do u know our humble mirages have the most f15 kills in the world in simulated battels and are also known to have killed an aircraft carrier in simulated battels.but in reality there are no restrictions .a f22 even withoout stealth is better than a lets say ef2000 y cuz its radar is capable of doing thing stuff a pulsedoppler cant.f22s skin is also a passive detector which can accurately tell u another radar emmissions source .lets go to pak fa .seems to be promesing and in future a gr8 headic for paf yes .but will all 300 of them be able to survive against paf no we ll get them down one way or another like the serbs did but that does not mean the jet is useless its defence is as good as its offence and that is what makes a difference.now for heavy armament u said a leathel weapon which kills at long range , u know russians have a better plan in engagement with a stealthy fighter they use 2 weapons at once ,one passive and one active and that makes the kill probablity higher ,but that is only possible if a jet is detected and thus defence is as imp as offence in air warfair

 

[alimobin memon]

sorry for the late reply
dude u r again going on about the fact theat land and air warfair is equal and same which is in correct
f22 was also locked by a f 18 confirmed and i also herd it was locked by f16
but the fact is those were simulated battels ,do u know our humble mirages have the most f15 kills in the world in simulated battels and are also known to have killed an aircraft carrier in simulated battels.but in reality there are no restrictions .a f22 even withoout stealth is better than a lets say ef2000 y cuz its radar is capable of doing thing stuff a pulsedoppler cant.f22s skin is also a passive detector which can accurately tell u another radar emmissions source .lets go to pak fa .seems to be promesing and in future a gr8 headic for paf yes .but will all 300 of them be able to survive against paf no we ll get them down one way or another like the serbs did but that does not mean the jet is useless its defence is as good as its offence and that is what makes a difference.now for heavy armament u said a leathel weapon which kills at long range , u know russians have a better plan in engagement with a stealthy fighter they use 2 weapons at once ,one passive and one active and that makes the kill probablity higher ,but that is only possible if a jet is detected and thus defence is as imp as offence in air warfair

Ofcourse land air warfare is different as u mentioned that f18 and maybe f16 locked f22 but u said because of its extreme powerful radar it will have greater superiority thats what im saying better avionics than stealth protection can make a good difference. what if our fighters like f16 and j10 + jf17 can have a radar powerful than pulse radar !! Eg: AESA OR PESA well a good probability than with pulse equipped radar and also i read IRST can detect target but does not emit radiation which makes it more stealthy lets say we have IRST as close as 45km it can make a great punch by the way i know f22 has high detection range but f22 pilot isn't fool to launch 200km away a missile he will launch 60-70km. 200 km possible only if there are any ultra supersonic missile which aren't yet developed !! so makes jf17 or j10 a reasonable against stealth !!

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

Ofcourse land air warfare is different as u mentioned that f18 and maybe f16 locked f22 but u said because of its extreme powerful radar it will have greater superiority thats what im saying better avionics than stealth protection can make a good difference. what if our fighters like f16 and j10 + jf17 can have a radar powerful than pulse radar !! Eg: AESA OR PESA well a good probability than with pulse equipped radar and also i read IRST can detect target but does not emit radiation which makes it more stealthy lets say we have IRST as close as 45km it can make a great punch by the way i know f22 has high detection range but f22 pilot isn't fool to launch 200km away a missile he will launch 60-70km. 200 km possible only if there are any ultra supersonic missile which aren't yet developed !! so makes jf17 or j10 a reasonable against stealth !!

of course he ll not launch at 200 km thats not even the range of AMRAM but do remember f22 and other stealthy jets are immune to x band radars and in future out jf and fc both will have x band AESA and IRST .but to detect stealth u need another kind of radar .for example L band radar but these radars are not very accurate like x band though they detect stealth but they just give its gernal position ,second irst have short rang of detection.in su 33 russians did a good thing they placed 2 Lband radars on either edges of wings to create a more precise position of target using the same phenomon we have on our head that is 2 eyes each person.though this is possible on big ACs JF FC are smaller jets and canot afford heavy extra radars
now the chinese use a method of triangulation that is 3 radars L band on the ground , but these can only detect stealth on ons terrotary.
yes a good aveionics package is a good deal but in pakistans cast it seems less viable and a more modular appproch is better

 

[alimobin memon]

of course he ll not launch at 200 km thats not even the range of AMRAM but do remember f22 and other stealthy jets are immune to x band radars and in future out jf and fc both will have x band AESA and IRST .but to detect stealth u need another kind of radar .for example L band radar but these radars are not very accurate like x band though they detect stealth but they just give its gernal position ,second irst have short rang of detection.in su 33 russians did a good thing they placed 2 Lband radars on either edges of wings to create a more precise position of target using the same phenomon we have on our head that is 2 eyes each person.though this is possible on big ACs JF FC are smaller jets and canot afford heavy extra radars
now the chinese use a method of triangulation that is 3 radars L band on the ground , but these can only detect stealth on ons terrotary.
yes a good aveionics package is a good deal but in pakistans cast it seems less viable and a more modular appproch is better

what is the frequency and some important details of l-band ?
and u r saying even if a jet like jfthunder detects stealthy aircraft it will not accurately detect or show position of f22? and if for paf its less viable than what is solution according to you for paf to engage if there is no budget to buy stealth fighter ?

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

what is the frequency and some important details of l-band ?
and u r saying even if a jet like jfthunder detects stealthy aircraft it will not accurately detect or show position of f22? and if for paf its less viable than what is solution according to you for paf to engage if there is no budget to buy stealth fighter ?

best thing is to befrind any country with stealth fighters
we r going for 5th gen dont worry sooner than u think ,just after we get 4++ gen fighter we all await,
best defence is home made technologys .L band triangulation radars can be used on the ground to precisly detect stealthy jets i.e 3 l band radars placed in a triangle creating a frequency mesh to give better pos
hyper dedicated jamming systems to jam any radar in the air causing even a f22 to go blind
long range optical radars like IR/UV/starlite etc
passive frequency detecters to search for radar emmissions from stealthy jets and the list goes on and on

 

[alimobin memon]

so if passive radar is equipped in aircrafts like jf17 what will be its fayida?

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

so if passive radar is equipped in aircrafts like jf17 what will be its fayida?

not on jf but on the ground .and the rest can be teken cair with the new c4i system

 

[Arsalan]

JF-17 Blk II developments in video:

regards!

 

[Battle Axe]

Block II has promise. And then we are acquiring FC 20. That makes it all the more important that we restrict Block I orders. If possible, the expected 50, which should probably be delivered by the end of 2011 should be the last tranche of Block I. From there on, I don't mind even a temporary lull to make way for more capable Block II. The only deadline for the latter should be Indian MRCA acquisitions which are getting delayed & we must utilize this time to better our future workhorses rather than be any hurry.

 

[alimobin memon]

not on jf but on the ground .and the rest can be teken cair with the new c4i system

c4i system ? please explain thanks in advance.

 

[Arsalan]

c4i system ? please explain thanks in advance.

it is an advanced combat air defense and automation system developed by a Pakistani firm. i combines data input from various sources including land based radars, AWE&C and naval fleet, compiles it and displays on desired location. a true force multiplier.

Combat air defense and automation system
The Air Defense Automation System has been indigenously developed by GIDS /AERO. The designed system collects information from all Air Defense sensors and radars, processes it, converts it into a standard format and displays it in real time at any desired location. The system architecture is independent of space, time and communication medium. The Command and Control System provides an environment for multiple functions to operate on the same hardware platform and share data via a Local Area Network (LAN) or a Wide Area Network (WAN).
The System allows the Commander to a view a fused picture of his complete Area Of Responsibility (AOR). It is a compilation of data from all Air Defense sensors, combined with battle plan, projection overlays, and any other data that is available, including:
current locations and planned movement operations of ground, maritime and air units of friendly, neutral, and enemy forces generated features and projections (e.g. battle plans, operating zones).
Our engineers work closely with the customers to provide them customized, open, flexible and cost-effective solutions to their Air Defense Automation System requirements. AERO provides comprehensive Integrated Logistic Support (ILS) throughout the life cycle of the System.
SALIENT FEATURES
Seamless integration with C4I systems.
Network centric design allowing self-forming and self-healing network (user can enter or leave the network dynamically).
Complete Air Situation Display (ASD).
User friendly and compact Graphical User Interface.
The System can be operated in different modes (Operator, Commander etc.)
Personnel training under simulation mode.
Scenario recording and replay facility.
Communication with lower and higher command centers.
Advanced GIS support.
Multiple layer architecture (Display of multiple maps).
Map features e.g. map loading, map editing, map color changing etc.
Preset and programmable zoom buttons.
Display of Latitude/Longitude, Georef and Grid System.
True battlefield scenario support.
Display of track history during interception operation. User can switch on/off history of track.
Track symbol indicating its category.
Track type indicates the threat status of the track.
Tactical interception aids available.
Radar on/off option.
Aircraft Plot Suppression Area (PSA).
Non-automatic track initiation area.
Weapons (SAM/AAA) status monitoring.
Use of commercial technologies.
Ergonomically designed Command and Control Console.
Easy maintenance.

MULTIPLE RADAR TRACKER
Multi Radar Tracker (MRT) uses state-of-the-art tracking algorithms to detect and track all modern, fast and highly maneuverable targets, hence forming an integral part of C4I and Air Defense Automation System. It works effectively in high clutter environments and displays real time information for any command & control function. It can handle 2000 plots and 1000 tracks. This capability can be further enhanced due to scalable design of the Tracker. It can be integrated simultaneously with homogenous and heterogeneous radars.
The Tracker automatically initiates and reliably tracks maneuvering targets. The tracks initiation and maneuvering detection is enhanced with multiple sensors. The trackers update the display information at a high rate to form a true, accurate and complete Air Situation Display (ASD) for all air-defense and air-traffic control operations.

The main functions of the MRT algorithm include:

Inferring the presence of valid targets from a series of plots and tracks received from different radars.
Calculating optimally by the sensor the true trajectories of the target in presence of uncertainties imposed by the sensor as well as aircraft dynamics.
Recognizing and rejecting false targets.
Successfully tracking and predicting the optimal estimates of the target in the presence of clutter and false alarms.
Displaying target tracking information.
Forming correct association between tracks and observation from radars in different environment.
Successfully tracking the target during extreme conditions of fast maneuver, formations, miss detection, cross-overs etc.
Fusing information from multiple radars of different ranges, resolutions, scan times and other radars parameters.
Analyzing the influence of sensor modeling, radar processor design, and change of other system parameters on algorithm design.

::GLOBAL INDUSTRIAL AND DEFENCE SOLUTIONS ::

it is reported that a variant have been sold to Bangladesh air force as well.

a separate thread exists for discussion on this.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/30580-c4i-air-defense-automation-system.html
i hope this will help.

regards!

 

[epinephrine]

there r news that PAF will phase out all block 1 thunders once it will be having abt 150 block2 thunders in its inventory.i fail to understand it .bock 2 thunder may be significantly advanced then block 1 but block 1 is still better then our mirages ,f-7 n non mlued f-16s

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

None sense - JF17 phased out lol it just got inducted its not a Bollywood movie a heroin comes and goes out of movies

Mirage or Older chinese planes will be phased out first

 

[krash]

there r news that PAF will phase out all block 1 thunders once it will be having abt 150 block2 thunders in its inventory.i fail to understand it .bock 2 thunder may be significantly advanced then block 1 but block 1 is still better then our mirages ,f-7 n non mlued f-16s

None sense - JF17 phased out lol it just got inducted its not a Bollywood movie a heroin comes and goes out of movies

Mirage or Older chinese planes will be phased out first

You guys are making the same mistake as made before by others here. Let me explain. The Blck 1s will not be phased out, per say. Instead they will be taken out of active combat duty and put into two other squadrons. 1st would be at CCS Sargodha for training purposes for the PAF. The second would be a squadron dedicated to training foreign pilots on the platform (A hint at good export orders). By the time we have 150 blck 2s both these squadrons will be a necessity for us. Further more after acquiring 150 blck2s a considerable load will be taken off from the older aircraft, Blck 2 production would be going on full speed, F-16s would have all been MLUed, FC-20 would, most probably, have arrived and we would be sitting comfortably. So basically they wont be retired just used else where.

 

[epinephrine]

thanx but the following link says block 1 will be retired,
An Update on JF-17 Block II ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS