Jewish groups to help Pakistan flood victims

[FreekiN]

Jews cant be our friend in any case....
in any time in any condition.....

Please elaborate.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

...
Pakistan sent its pilots during the Arab-Israeli conflict against Israel.Its a known and proven fact....

Those pilots were on deputation, were retained within the theater of operations, and they operated on defensive ROEs, different from their host units. I'm glad they did not include someone like yourself who would run away when war came to their hosts.

'known and proven' isn't a reinforcing set of adjectives. It is an antagonistic one.

I...
Israel is a country which may forget its friends,but will never forget its enemies.

Is this in their constitution? Or did it look like a nice piece of rhetoric to you to be made up?

 

[somebozo]

I think Israel already forgot Egypt & Jordan as enemies and enjoys good releations with Turkey.

The Indians cant give up their attitude carried forward from bharat rakshak!

 

[amigo]

Jews cant be our friend in any case....
in any time in any condition.....

i don't think jews have anything against pak

 

[nForce]

Those pilots were on deputation, were retained within the theater of operations, and they operated on defensive ROEs, different from their host units. I'm glad they did not include someone like yourself who would run away when war came to their hosts.

'known and proven' isn't a reinforcing set of adjectives. It is an antagonistic one.

What exactly are you trying to say here??Pakistan never wanted to end up sending pilots to the war.

The pilots ,on deputation,exactly to both Syria and Egypt,during the time when the war started,flew fighters belonging to both Syrian Airforce and Egyptian Airforce,vectored to combat zone,fired shots in anger and downed Israeli jets.Now are you expecting me to think that all happened by chance there??Since when pilots on deputation started fighting for host country acting on their own will??Why would one pilot even be flying his plane near a combat zone if he wishes not to get involved??

How lame can an argument be???Now you are denying your own history.

FYI.

'Shahbaz' over Golan​

Written by: M Kaisar Tufail

Post-haste summons for volunteers found an eager band of sixteen PAF fighter pilots on their way to the Middle East, in the midst of the 1973 Ramadan war. After a gruelling Peshawar-Karachi-Baghdad flight on a PAF Fokker, they were whisked off to Damascus in a Syrian jet. Upon arrival, half the batch was told to stay back in Syria while the rest were earmarked for Egypt. By the time the PAF batch reached Cairo, Egypt had agreed to a cease-fire; it was therefore decided that they would continue as instructors. But in Syria it was another story.

The batch in Syria was made up of pilots who were already serving there on deputation (except one), but had been repatriated before the war. Now they were back in familiar surroundings as well as familiar aircraft, the venerable MiG-21. They were posted to No 67 squadron, 'Alpha' Detachment (all PAF). Hasty checkouts were immediately followed by serious business of Air Defence Alert scrambles and Combat Air Patrols from the air base at Dumayr.

Syria had not agreed to a ceasefire, since Israeli operations in Golan were continuing at a threatening pace. Israeli Air Force missions included interdiction under top cover, well supported by intense radio jamming as the PAF pilots discovered. The PAF formation using the call-sign "Shahbaz" was formidable in size -- all of eight aircraft. Shahbaz soon came to stand out as one that couldn't be messed with, in part because its tactics were innovative and bold. Survival, however, in a jammed-radio environment was concern number one. As a precaution, the Pakistanis decided to switch to Urdu for fear of being monitored in English. Suspicions were confirmed during one patrol, when healthy Punjabi invectives hurled on radio got them wondering if Mossad had recruited a few Khalsas for the job!

After several months of sporadic activity, it seemed that hostilities were petering out. While the Shahbaz patrols over Lebanon and Syria had diminished in frequency, routine training sorties started to register a rise. Under these conditions it was a surprise when on the afternoon of 26th April 1974, the siren blasted from the air-shafts of the underground bunker. Backgammon boards were pushed aside and the "qehva" session was interrupted as all eight pilots rushed to their MiGs; they were airborne within minutes. From Dumayr to Beirut, then along the Mediterranean coast till Sidon, and a final leg eastwards, skirting Damascus and back to base -- this was the usual patrol, flown at an altitude of 6 km.

The limited fuel of their early model MiG--21F permitted just a 30 minutes sortie; this was almost over when ground radar blurted out on the radio that two bogeys (unidentified aircraft) were approaching from the southerly direction ie Israel. At this stage fuel was low and an engagement was the least preferred option. Presented with a fait accompli, the leader of the formation called a defensive turn into the bogeys. Just then heavy radio jamming started, sounding somewhat similar to the "takka tak" at our meat joints, only more shrill. While the formation was gathering itself after the turn, two Israeli F-4E Phantoms sped past almost head-on, seemingly unwilling to engage. Was it a bait?

Flt Lt Sattar Alvi, now the rear-most in the formation, was still adjusting after the hard turn when he caught sight of two Mirage-III-CJ zooming into them from far below. With no way of warning the formation of the impending disaster, he instinctively decided to handle them alone. Peeling away from his formation, he turned hard into the Mirages so that one of them overshot. Against the other, he did a steep reversal dropping his speed literally to zero. (it takes some guts to let eight tons of metal hang up in unfriendly air!) The result was that within a few seconds the second Mirage filled his gun-sight, the star of David and all. While Sattar worried about having to concentrate for precious seconds in aiming and shooting, the lead Mirage started to turn around to get Sattar. Thinking that help was at hand, the target Mirage decided to accelerate away. A quick-witted Sattar reckoned that a missile shot would be just right for the range his target had opened up to. A pip of a button later, a K13 heat-seeker sped off towards the tail of the escaping Mirage. Sattar recollects that it wasn't as much an Israeli aircraft as a myth that seemed to explode in front of him. (The letter 'J' in Mirage-IIICJ stood for 'Jewish', it may be noted.) He was tempted to watch the flaming metal rain down, but with the other Mirage lurking around and fuel down to a few hundred litres, he decided to exit. Diving down with careless abandon, he allowed a couple of Sonic bangs over Damascus. (word has it that the Presidential Palace wasn't amused). His fuel tanks bone dry, Sattar made it to Dumayr on the vapours that remained.

As the other formation members started to trickle in, the leader, Sqn Ldr Arif Manzoor anxiously called out for Sattar to check if he was safe. All had thought that Sattar, a bit of a maverick that he was, had landed himself in trouble. Shouts of joy went up on the radio, however, when they learnt that he had been busy shooting down a Mirage.

The Syrians were overwhelmed when they learnt that the impunity and daring of the Pakistani pilots had paid off. Sattar was declared a blood brother by the Syrians, for he had shared in shedding the blood of a common enemy, they explained.

Sattar's victim Captain M Lutz of No 5 Air Wing based at Hatzor, ejected out of his disintegrating aircraft. It has been learnt that the Mirages were on a reconnaissance mission, escorted by Phantoms of No 1 Air Wing operating out of Ramat David Air base. The Phantoms were to trap any interceptors while the Mirages carried out the recce. Timely warning by the radar controller (also from the PAF) had turned the tables on the escorts, allowing Sattar to sort out the Mirages.

The dogfight over Golan is testimony to the skills of all PAF pilots, insists Sattar, as he thinks anyone could have got the kill had he been "Shahbaz-8" on that fateful day. Sattar and his leader Sqn Ldr Arif Manzoor, were awarded two of Syria's highest decorations for gallantry, the Wisaam Faris and Wisaam Shuja'at. The government of Pakistan awarded them a Sitara-e-Jur'at each. Sattar, an epitome of a fighter pilot, befittingly went on to command PAF's elite Combat Commanders' School and the premier PAF Base Rafiqui. He retired recently as an Air Commodore.

Is this in their constitution? Or did it look like a nice piece of rhetoric to you to be made up?

I am talking about past events here.Be it the man hunt launched after the Munich Massacre,Operation Entebbe,the preemptive strikes in the neighbouring Arabian countries,if there is one message that we can get is this country believes in seeing things to the end.Was it too hard for you to comprehend???

 

[usman.exe]

Jews cant be our friend in any case....
in any time in any condition.....

I hear this all day, this hate indoctrinated in almost every Pakistani. I ask why can't they be friends? Why hate is the first assumption of you people. You know running this country on the basis of religion has already caused us a lot of trouble and misfortune. When will you people wake up and look at the world around you without the myopia of religion. When Pakistanis learn this, our troubles are over. Overall it means we should be a secular state as Jinnah envisaged.

 

[Uchiha Sasuke]

alrite for pakistan, good for jews, better for the world

 

[nForce]

I think Israel already forgot Egypt & Jordan as enemies and enjoys good releations with Turkey.

The Indians cant give up their attitude carried forward from bharat rakshak!

The attitude and mentality of the Indians help them to have friendly relations with countries like Iran,Egypt,Syria and Israel,ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

How about a little self introspection before raising fingers at others???

 

[Al-zakir]

You think Israelis or the Israeli government bears Pakistan or Pakistanis ill-will?

How do you guys get to make all these money? You are not cheating on TAX, are you solomon???

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

What exactly are you trying to say here??Pakistan never wanted to end up sending pilots to the war.

The pilots ,on deputation,exactly to both Syria and Egypt,during the time when the war started,flew fighters belonging to both Syrian Airforce and Egyptian Airforce,vectored to combat zone,fired shots in anger and downed Israeli jets.Now are you expecting me to think that all happened by chance there??Since when pilots on deputation started fighting for host country acting on their own will??Why would one pilot even be flying his plane near a combat zone if he wishes not to get involved??

How lame can an argument be???Now you are denying your own history.

FYI.

I am talking about past events here.Be it the man hunt launched after the Munich Massacre,Operation Entebbe,the preemptive strikes in the neighbouring Arabian countries,if there is one message that we can get is this country believes in seeing things to the end.Was it too hard for you to comprehend???

If you're incapable of understanding the difference between people doing their duty, and people showing compassion to others in need, and keep mixing the two, I won't persist in assisting you derail the thread.

 

[ARSENAL6]

No they dont but our madarassas preach that way and that is what I was addressing.

I think you missed the whole point of his post he mention Israelis NOT Jewish people.

BIG difference there.

 

[Gazzi]

Please bear in mind the difference between the Jews and Zionists...........

Strict followers of Judaism, like Muslims condemn Israel vehemently and have challenged Israel's Zionists on many levels over the years, but there voices of low in number.........nontheless, they are an assett and as such, if these Jewish Groups wish to assist in humanitarian grounds then they should be welcomed, however without any ulterior motives though.........I am pointing to the strict Christain NGO's who have been in India and Pakistan converting the suffered in exchange for conversions..............

 

[ARSENAL6]

Please bear in mind the difference between the Jews and Zionists...........

Strict followers of Judaism, like Muslims condemn Israel vehemently and have challenged Israel's Zionists on many levels over the years, but there voices of low in number.........nontheless, they are an assett and as such, if these Jewish Groups wish to assist in humanitarian grounds then they should be welcomed, however without any ulterior motives though.........I am pointing to the strict Christain NGO's who have been in India and Pakistan converting the suffered in exchange for conversions..............

Excalty

Furthermore we don't get anything like this from anywhere and this is extremly important for both Jews and Muslim to undetsnad that
Muslims and Jews always had help each other.

Rave - French Muslims Who Rescued Jews in World War Two

This only a tip of the Ice berg

By not acknowledging this only serves the Zionist proganda that they want to potray the Muslim/Jew hate.

 

[ARSENAL6]

I hear this all day, this hate indoctrinated in almost every Pakistani. I ask why can't they be friends? Why hate is the first assumption of you people. You know running this country on the basis of religion has already caused us a lot of trouble and misfortune. When will you people wake up and look at the world around you without the myopia of religion. When Pakistanis learn this, our troubles are over. Overall it means we should be a secular state as Jinnah envisaged.

HATING JEWS has nothing to do with religon , Its the people,

1) Please could you stop putting religion as the root causes of division as religion contradicts this

2) How could Pakistan be a Secular state when pakistan was created on the bases of Islam. Hence PAKISTAN ( HOLYLAND)

Like I have said Usman big difference in Jews and Israelis
and furthermore the Quran didn't state that we shouldn't trust the Jews. So you come up with this anti-religion post baffles me.
People have the right to believe what relgion they want to practice without being named, shamed, abused, tortured, humilated, bullied or anyother form of abuse.