Jawans may soon have top-class Italian machine guns

[Kinetic]

Why can't Indians make a simple machine gun?

For the same reason your country cannot make simple car. lol

 

[Koovie]

Are u an idiot or cant read english? where does the drdo come into picture? The article clearly mention one of berettas gun fialed.... still army asking them... actually you are no different from those foreign maal lovers.... even if they cost much more than desi. Same happened in arjun vs t90. We also forget that More than 1 million insas are in service. drdo just need to develop everything superfast without any support and less money.

80 newly developed SMGs had problems out of tens of thousands so what?
And when the T90 was ordered the Arjun was not ready yet and a T 90s is furthermore cheaper than the Arjun.
Insas is a failed product, no surprise that the Army wants a replacement. Beretta is the worlds oldest weapons manufacturer with over 500 yrs experience, even the US army considers to buy Beretta weapons. Indian firms cant keep up with that.
Face it.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Every company in the world does R&D without having a confirmed order in hand...there wouldn't have been world class products made if the company would be afraid without making a start in the first place...success depends on more or less how good your product is

Not talking about state owned firms. But in most countries in Europe and North America, private firms have liberty to sell weapons to civilians. If you look at the history of major gun manufacturers like Colt, Winchester, etc, they started their journey by making guns for the civilians, before entering into the foray of manufacturing guns for armed forces.

If the state pays for R&D, which US does in few cases, then there shouldn't be any concern about it. But then again, why would state pay for R&D in a private firm, when there are many state owned ordnance factories in operation?

 

[gubbi]

A company spokesperson separately told DNA that Beretta was looking forward to a new beginning with the Indian defence ministry after the “barrel bulge” controversy was amicably resolved after all the 80 MX-4 Storm sub-machine guns, suspected to have the defect, were completely replaced with new ones. The 80 MX-4 weapons were a part of a total of 38,000 delivered to the Border Security Force in May 2012.

“The problem that we refer to as ‘barrel bulge’ occurs commonly due to defects in the ammunition, not in the weapons,” explained the spokesperson. “Especially in an automatic rifle, which has micro grooves inside the barrel, a small defect in the cartridge can lead to the bullet getting stuck within. But as it is a machine gun, the following bullet rams into the stuck one at high velocity and displaces it. But this causes the barrel to bulge a little.”

Arent you guys missing this? What use all the fancy guns GoI/MoD end up buying if the ammo our boys use is of low quality? It would have been acceptable if it was a couple of bad cartridges in a huge lot of ammo. But apparently 80 guns had faced this problem (rectified by the company) and so the problem definitely lies with the ammo being supplied.
Ok. Professionals/gun enthusiasts here, how often do you guys experience this kind of problem?

 

[IndianArmy]

DRDO take responsibility for too many projects, why not establish another organization to compete with it? Competition will bring out the best in it.

Well we have held similar trials in the past. You can see Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and National Aerospace Laboratory, both meant to compete but you hardly see anything from NAL. HAL being a defence establishment has been crowned with projects, including civilian ones, which rightfully should go to NAL.

 

[Skull and Bones]

80 newly developed SMGs had problems out of tens of thousands so what?
And when the T90 was ordered the Arjun was not ready yet and a T 90s is furthermore cheaper than the Arjun.
Insas is a failed product, no surprise that the Army wants a replacement. Beretta is the worlds oldest weapons manufacturer with over 500 yrs experience, even the US army considers to buy Beretta weapons. Indian firms cant keep up with that.
Face it.

INSAS is not 'at least' a failed project. But it failed to evolve with time due to lack of government patronage. I'd be very happy to see INSAS in the hands of police forces rather than those archaic .303 Enfield.

 

[IndianArmy]

Why can't Indians make a simple machine gun?

India already produces SIMPLE Machine Guns, We are hunting for the sophisticated one's

 

[MilSpec]

Then what is the MSMC?

Honestly speaking MSMC is a POS hardware by any international standard. Thats what it is

 

[MilSpec]

80 newly developed SMGs had problems out of tens of thousands so what?
And when the T90 was ordered the Arjun was not ready yet and a T 90s is furthermore cheaper than the Arjun.
Insas is a failed product, no surprise that the Army wants a replacement. Beretta is the worlds oldest weapons manufacturer with over 500 yrs experience, even the US army considers to buy Beretta weapons. Indian firms cant keep up with that.
Face it.

First off Insas is not a failed product by any means, It is what exactly is was expected to be. A low cost, stamped receiver intermediate cartridge, mass produced rifle system. It fit the bill.

And army looking for a replacement is due to better options and more importantly a fat bank balance, which is a relatively newer phenomena based on our hard earned tax money.

I have been hearing the 500 year exp a lot on this thread, and trust me it doesn't mean anything, a 10 year old company magpul industry beat the crap out of Colt, berreta, cz, Springfield with it's Masada that Bushmaster literally bought the patents and fielded it as it's "ACR rifle".

As far as berreta's years of experience is concerned, the CZ's Glocks and even the taurus gives it run for it's money in the industry.

What India lacks is reforms for private players to enter the market, given a developmental budget and acess to export and local state law enforcement market, there are more than enough engineers like me who are willing to relocate to India and set up shop.

A very good example is salsarimaz of turkey, which builds exceptionally good quality firearms inspired from the H&K and CZ.

 

[MilSpec]

Why can't some private Indian company start a joint venture or buy a US based company to manufacture small arms and ammunition in the US, spend some money on research and offer their products to the Indian Defence Forces...Also looking at the order potential they can then set up and replicate their operations in India later

Because it's a waste of Money, Thats why.

Indian government doesn't allow any private company to sell or manufacture ammunition, and civilian sales of ammunition is rationed to around 200 rounds. Apart from that, there is zero availability of .243 win, .300 aac, .30 30, .222, .177, .22wmr, .45 long colt, .300 Wsm which are all NPB's and by defination legal, hence the only available ammo in india is 0.22 and recently the 0.30 06. So a private manufacturer has only two popular bore option's untill government changes the ammunition law. The ammunition cap itself discourages users from buying different calibers to begin with. To give you an example, I am extremely frugal gun owner, i have six calibers, the minimum ammo for least stocked ammo is around 200 rounds, and minimum for the most used ammo is around 1500 rounds, on an average there is around 2200 rounds of ammo in my house. Most gun enthusiast I know stock ten times of that.

Gun laws in India are of british era, and are not viable for any private parties to enter the market.

 

[MilSpec]

I am not saying that they supply to the civilian market in India as the current laws prevent civilians from owning automatic rifles...there is a huge market to supply to the defence forces and that is a very big incentive to do R&D

Will you start a company to produce say "staplers", only for the army. Do you think it is viable?

Are u an idiot or cant read english? where does the drdo come into picture? The article clearly mention one of berettas gun fialed.... still army asking them... actually you are no different from those foreign maal lovers.... even if they cost much more than desi. Same happened in arjun vs t90. We also forget that More than 1 million insas are in service. drdo just need to develop everything superfast without any support and less money.

Dear friend,

With a budget of less than a million dollars, two investors, 2 designers, 3 gunsmiths, and two development managers, Magpul industries produced the Adaptive combat rifle in colorado.

lets call a spade, SPADE

 

[ANPP]

This time they select it pretty fast.....perhaps Sonia's factor....

 

[Koovie]

This time they select it pretty fast.....perhaps Sonia's factor....

They havent selected anything, IA is testing it in trials.

 

[SEAL]

In 5.56 cal you can find better rifles than this IA got no taste.

 

[Liquidmetal]

I might be wrong but I thought India was interested in the weapon made by Israel, the same rifle that also featured in the documentary future weapons.