Japanese troops take Singapore from Indians and British.

[Wright]

Why do you come up with numbers? What strength a number has when it is not supported by weapons? Did the Chinese have weapons to counter Japanese incursion into China?

The afghans can do it.

 

[flamer84]

Why do you come up with numbers? What strength a number has when it is not supported by weapons? Did the Chinese have weapons to counter Japanese incursion into China?

Wasn't that guy talking numbers when refering to the brits? Well ,two can play that game,and i can play the game alot better.What superior weapons did the british have in the opium wars? Better rifles and congrave rockets? With only that they beat a 11-1 advantage....Hmmm,and the chinese poster here said that the chinese fought japanese artillery,guns,tanks,airplanes only with bamboo sticks but they couldn't fight against british rifles?

 

[GR!FF!N]

The battle you described is minor, it might have involved the best Russian general in WW2, it wasn't decisive and certainly didn't change anything, other than Japanese don't think much of the Russians, to know that Russians still exist after Russo Japanese war.

that depends on how you see the factors...due to engaging into an "Unauthorized war",North Strike Group(which was actually fighting against Russia and China) lost its political power on Imperial General Staff and they relied much on South strike group(which was fighting in S-E asia and pacific islands)...so,the direct implications are right there..as you saw,soon North Strike Group almost stopped its major engagements and most resources was directed to South Strike Group...They never made any move against SU,and in China fronts too,their activity was almost stopped(without few skirmishes).I'm not biased towards China's success,but just discussing facts...

Japanese offensives were all around 200,000 men or more. You think a few aircrafts would make a difference? Or as big? We had close to no air force and the navy is about as powerful as Vietnam is now. The japanese had over 10,000 fighters, perhaps more and a fleet that at one point out matched the US.

The flying tigers were a help, but not much. America's entry is very very important, but it was after 1941, when the Battle of Shanghai and battle of Wuhan were over. And when we halted them after three Battle of Changsha. Third and most decisive came a month after American entry.

don't know about China Airforce's strength at that time..but the kill ratio of Flying Tiger is way too impressive..can you post the airpower of China at that time???

 

[eastwatch]

The afghans can do it.

No, even the Afghans could not have won it the way Japanese invaded, conquered and killed millions of innocent civilians in China and SE Asia. Today's US or Russian troops are well groomed youngsters of their countries who are losing against the Afghans.

Japanese troops were a different breed in those days. They are, however, have turned to become another type of breed today.

And, how many millions of people were there in Afghanistan in 1940s? Japanese would have just cleaned that country by slow starvation of the local population if they thought they cannot be trusted.

The Japanese of those days had medieval mind with modern weapons in their hands. They would do any mischievous cruelty on the civilian/military captives if ordered. They would give maximum and lingering pain to a military captive before finally killing him. But, then chopping off the heads was another way of killing.

In most cases in the WWll, the opposition to Japanese occupation had vanished once the local people saw how the Japanese troops acted without a trace of mercy. They meant business.

 

[eastwatch]

Wasn't that guy talking numbers when refering to the brits? Well ,two can play that game,and i can play the game alot better.What superior weapons did the british have in the opium wars? Better rifles and congrave rockets? With only that they beat a 11-1 advantage....Hmmm,and the chinese poster here said that the chinese fought japanese artillery,guns,tanks,airplanes only with bamboo sticks but they couldn't fight against british rifles?

Bold part: Are you really smoking pots? Otherwise why should you distort history to suit your ego? Read and learn about the 1st Opium War. It was unjustly imposed by colonialist England on China. The excerpts are from Wiki, but do not come with another distortion that Wikies can be modified by others.

You can see here what weapons the British had used against the Chinese army, and how this greedy England imposed its will on China by using its naked military force.

So, do not say Chinese or Asians were cowards. It is the quality of weapons technology and british conspiracy throughout the world that placed them at the top. And I personally do not regret its fall from that heaven.

=eastwatch=

"When the British learned of what was taking place in Canton, they sent a large British Indian army, which arrived in June 1840.

British military superiority drew on newly applied technology. British warships wreaked havoc on coastal towns; the steam ship Nemesis was able to move against the winds and tides and support a gun platform with very heavy guns. In addition, the British troops were the first to be armed with modern muskets and cannons, which fired more rapidly and with greater accuracy than the Qing firearms and artillery, though Chinese cannons had been in use since previous dynasties. After the British took Canton, they sailed up the Yangtze and took the tax barges, a devastating blow to the Empire as it slashed the revenue of the imperial court in Beijing to just a fraction of what it had been.

In 1842, the Qing authorities sued for peace, which concluded with the Treaty of Nanking negotiated in August of that year and ratified in 1843. In the treaty, China was forced to pay an indemnity to Britain, open four ports to Britain, and cede Hong Kong to Queen Victoria. In the supplementary Treaty of the Bogue, the Qing empire also recognised Britain as an equal to China and gave British subjects extraterritorial privileges in treaty ports. In 1844, the United States and France concluded similar treaties with China, the Treaty of Wanghia and Treaty of Whampoa respectively."

 

[A1Kaid]

90,000 VS 40,000, and 80,000 captured. If there ever is evidence the Americans are very much alone in their web of alliances is this.

I respect the Americans for fighting bravely and dying like men, but the British are nothing but cowards, how does such a large percentage of men get captured, how does this happen.

We may have been beaten, but not defeated, we lost millions, but we fought on. Against Japanese aggression, our Beiyang fleet's commanders all but one either died or committed suicide rather than surrendering. The commander in Chief also committed suicide instead of surrendering.

WW2, most of our men fought until the last men, even when they were holding nothing but bambo sticks.

Today we have weapons and money, this is why I always mention the Americans alone and never say Allies, cause in reality, the Americans have no REAL allies, bunch of pussies and crybabies are not soldiers.

Side note, thank god the Russians are on our side, be terrible for whoever wants to fight the Russians.

You should read about Italy's failed invasion of Egypt which led to one of the biggest surrenders history. In north Africa versus the British, 1 British soldier was handling in line some 30-50 Italian soldiers after the surrender. Italy had deployed 236,000 troops and Britain had only 36,000 available, but Italy was not aware of Britain's severe numerical inferiority in the theater. British Gen. Richard O'Connor launched Operation Compass with his British, British-Indian, and Australian troops cut off the divided Italian army groups in Egypt and captured 130,000 Italian soldiers quickly and easily. In fact, it was reported the Italian soldiers didn't want to fight and missed Italy, they missed the wine, cheese, food, and the smell of Italy-- they were gentlemen sort of way their army wasn't martial at all.

It was so pathetic, Italy's ally Germany had to come to their rescue in north Africa, and a small German army was deployed led by then Lieutenant Gen. Rommel.

 

[flamer84]

Bold part: Are you really smoking pots? Otherwise why should you distort history to suit your ego? Read and learn about the 1st Opium War. It was unjustly imposed by colonialist England on China. The excerpts are from Wiki, but do not come with another distortion that Wikies can be modified by others.

You can see here what weapons the British had used against the Chinese army, and how this greedy England imposed its will on China by using its naked military force.

So, do not say Chinese or Asians were cowards. It is the quality of weapons technology and british conspiracy throughout the world that placed them at the top. And I personally do not regret its fall from that heaven.

=eastwatch=

"When the British learned of what was taking place in Canton, they sent a large British Indian army, which arrived in June 1840.

British military superiority drew on newly applied technology. British warships wreaked havoc on coastal towns; the steam ship Nemesis was able to move against the winds and tides and support a gun platform with very heavy guns. In addition, the British troops were the first to be armed with modern muskets and cannons, which fired more rapidly and with greater accuracy than the Qing firearms and artillery, though Chinese cannons had been in use since previous dynasties. After the British took Canton, they sailed up the Yangtze and took the tax barges, a devastating blow to the Empire as it slashed the revenue of the imperial court in Beijing to just a fraction of what it had been.

In 1842, the Qing authorities sued for peace, which concluded with the Treaty of Nanking negotiated in August of that year and ratified in 1843. In the treaty, China was forced to pay an indemnity to Britain, open four ports to Britain, and cede Hong Kong to Queen Victoria. In the supplementary Treaty of the Bogue, the Qing empire also recognised Britain as an equal to China and gave British subjects extraterritorial privileges in treaty ports. In 1844, the United States and France concluded similar treaties with China, the Treaty of Wanghia and Treaty of Whampoa respectively."

Obviously you're not getting my point,the OP was argiung that the chinese stood against the japanese with bamboo sticks.Now,if they were so brave against japanese with their guns,airplanes,tanks why couldn't they be the same against the british 100 years earlier? Ofcourse the brits had superior weaponry but nowhere near to what the japanese had in the 1930's-1940's.Get it now?

Anyway better muskets,cannons and congrave rockets doesn't equal tanks,etc and the chinese had a 10/1 advantage.Some africans with spears managed to overcome that 30 years later(obviously the british were better equiped then in the first opium war)

Battle of Isandlwana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to your satisfaction that the british or other europeans have fallen,don't worry they still have an overwhelming weapon advantage over the chinese and their copies.You keep telling yourself what you want to believe.

 

[Genesis]

Obviously you're not getting my point,the OP was argiung that the chinese stood against the japanese with bamboo sticks.Now,if they were so brave against japanese with their guns,airplanes,tanks why couldn't they be the same against the british 100 years earlier? Ofcourse the brits had superior weaponry but nowhere near to what the japanese had in the 1930's-1940's.Get it now?

Anyway better muskets,cannons and congrave rockets doesn't equal tanks,etc and the chinese had a 10/1 advantage.Some africans with spears managed to overcome that 30 years later(obviously the british were better equiped then in the first opium war)

Battle of Isandlwana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to your satisfaction that the british or other europeans have fallen,don't worry they still have an overwhelming weapon advantage over the chinese and their copies.You keep telling yourself what you want to believe.

Are you comparing a dying monarch to newly formed republic? A battle hardened veteran in Chang Kai Shek, to a sickly dude the emperor?

The reason we didn't win then was our government had no will to fight once they figured out the British's intention is of trade and not to take over their territory, they don't really conisder HK important.

During the same period, the Taiping rebellion, who actually did want all of Qing land, over 10 million troops mobolized, and in the end the battle of Nanjing, over two million was on Qing's side and all battle hardened men.

So you tell me if we could have taken the british.

 

[flamer84]

Are you comparing a dying monarch to newly formed republic? A battle hardened veteran in Chang Kai Shek, to a sickly dude the emperor?

The reason we didn't win then was our government had no will to fight once they figured out the British's intention is of trade and not to take over their territory, they don't really conisder HK important.

During the same period, the Taiping rebellion, who actually did want all of Qing land, over 10 million troops mobolized, and in the end the battle of Nanjing, over two million was on Qing's side and all battle hardened men.

So you tell me if we could have taken the british.

Let me rephrase for the last time,personally i don't think that the chinese are cowards and yes.i fully understand your points but i was showing to some of the first posters who said that the british and indians are cowards just because of their defeat in Singapore at the hands of the japanese that such things can happen to everyone in history,including China.Basically i've played his silly game backwards.You can't judge a whole nation after a disastrous battle/war in which they lost.That goes for the retards that,for example,bash France for her WW2 smashing at the hands of the germans when France has such many good war moments in her long history.

 

[Ali Ali]

hmm......................................................................................................

 

[scorpionx]

Singapore,formerly known as Malaya was well known for its Tin mines and rich rubber plantations. It was as important to the Japanese as were the Indonasian oil fields. It was righteously described by the Governor Sir Shenton Thomas,the dollar arsenal of the empire.

But despite the strategic importance of this region,the British actually did very little to fortify it mainly due to their imperialistic arrogance which often underestimated the fighting capabilities of the Japanese. Singapore was a vast naval base but severely lacked modern aircrafts and war ships. The only fighter available was the Brewster buffalo which stood little chance against the far more superior Zeros. Britain was more willing to protect its naval commitments in the Atlantic,the Mediterranean and the arctic convoys to Murmansk taking supplies to the Russians,keeping it's Far East literally starved.

60,000 frontline troops under the command of Lt.General Arthur Percival with an astonishing number of Indian and local troops had no experience in Jungle warfare. These intelligence were effectively passed to Tokyo war office by the 3000 Japanese Civilians presided in Malaya,through the Consulate General of Singapore.

The Japanese Assault on Kotha Bahru begun exactly one hour before the attack on Pearl harbour. Percival's misjudgment to keep the beeches virtually unprotected was found to be critical and at the next day the British started retreating.

The Japanese naval fleet became unchallenged after HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse sank into the Pacific putting Churchill,exulting on the Great Ships of the Empire, into a state of shock and disarray.The British quickly learnt from their mistakes.It was only after the Battle of Midway the wind started blowing in the allied's favor in the June of Next year.

 

[Capt P.H Young]

Are you comparing a dying monarch to newly formed republic? A battle hardened veteran in Chang Kai Shek, to a sickly dude the emperor?

The reason we didn't win then was our government had no will to fight once they figured out the British's intention is of trade and not to take over their territory, they don't really conisder HK important.

During the same period, the Taiping rebellion, who actually did want all of Qing land, over 10 million troops mobolized, and in the end the battle of Nanjing, over two million was on Qing's side and all battle hardened men.

So you tell me if we could have taken the british.

I take issue in the fact that you call the British cowards. My Uncle did not surrender to the Japanese, he fought to the last till badly wounded, he was captured and spent the rest of the war a prisoner of the Japanese, they did not give him any medical assistance, and his life was dramatically shortened as a result. Also my 2 Great Uncles both KIA at the Somme in 1916. They were not cowards and I do not know if you are just trying to be insulting or are too immature to make a sensible comment. So tell me, at the time of Singapore who else were we fighting a few thousand miles away which was actually a deperate attempt to stop the UK being over run? If the British , according to your throwaway stupid comment, were such cowards , why did they have the greatest empire in history? Encicrcling the Globe? people who achieve this are certainly not 'cowards'..and you also contradict yourself by then saying 'Our Govt had no will to fight?? So ease off on the 'coward ' thing.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

I take issue in the fact that you call the British cowards. My Uncle did not surrender to the Japanese, he fought to the last till badly wounded, he was captured and spent the rest of the war a prisoner of the Japanese, they did not give him any medical assistance, and his life was dramatically shortened as a result. Also my 2 Great Uncles both KIA at the Somme in 1916. They were not cowards and I do not know if you are just trying to be insulting or are too immature to make a sensible comment. So tell me, at the time of Singapore who else were we fighting a few thousand miles away which was actually a deperate attempt to stop the UK being over run? If the British , according to your throwaway stupid comment, were such cowards , why did they have the greatest empire in history? Encicrcling the Globe? people who achieve this are certainly not 'cowards'..and you also contradict yourself by then saying 'Our Govt had no will to fight?? So ease off on the 'coward ' thing.

Mongol empire was better I believe. British was a close second.

On topic- We handled the Japanese pretty well in Burma.

 

[atatwolf]

Japanese are very good fighters because of the code of the warior. Only few people share this.

 

[Capt P.H Young]

Mongol empire was better I believe. British was a close second.

On topic- We handled the Japanese pretty well in Burma.

Probably, but my point is a people do not start great empires by being cowards..And yes The Japs were soundly kicked up the backside in Burma. I just hate these throw away lines which state that a certain people are cowards based on one incident. We lost plenty of battles over the centuries as well as winning a few