Japanese Defense Budget Expansion Includes Two 20,000 Ton Cruisers

[FuturePAF]

A military expert with a naval background has already mentioned the key words "36 ships", "rail guns" and "laser weapons" on the television programme. The news of 36 055Bs is now all over the Chinese military network.

To be honest, I also doubt that the Navy has enough naval officers to use that many warships.

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Do you anticipate Type 052DL production will end soon so that the shipyards can transition to building Type 055A/B? Perhaps this could be why the Type 052DE is being marketed for export, to give the shipyards orders on the books before the transition to the Type 055A/B.

How many Type 052DL do you think the PLAN will end up with?

 

[MH.Yang]

Do you anticipate Type 052DL production will end soon so that the shipyards can transition to building Type 055A/B? Perhaps this could be why the Type 052DE is being marketed for export, to give the shipyards orders on the books before the transition to the Type 055A/B.

How many Type 052DL do you think the PLAN will end up with?

Since my initial exposure to military knowledge started with a magazine with the 052B on the cover, I personally preferred the 052 series to the 055.
And my subjective preference was to see the 052 become the backbone of the Chinese Navy, which is why I predicted that there would be a total of 72 052s.
However, various pieces of information are now indicating that the 052DL may be the last of the 052. The 055 is the protagonist of the Chinese Navy.
Maybe the 052 isn't suited for railguns and laser weapons. We need to learn to accept new times.

btw: There are very many Chinese military fans like me who prefer the 052 series, and we would hate to see the 052 go. We always hope that the 052 will continue to be produced.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Do you anticipate Type 052DL production will end soon so that the shipyards can transition to building Type 055A/B? Perhaps this could be why the Type 052DE is being marketed for export, to give the shipyards orders on the books before the transition to the Type 055A/B.

How many Type 052DL do you think the PLAN will end up with?

It is very likely that China will produce additional 30 Type 052DL (including the improved variant) hulls.

Because the Type 052DL is still very advanced with inexpensive price, and it is the only viable modern destroyers that can be produced in huge quantity.

Same for the Type 093B, a relatively advanced SSN that approaches the level of the Virginia class that China can easily pop up more than 30 units within a couple of years.

 

[S10]

Japs always wanted these wonder ships that will supposedly turn the tide of the war with them (i.e. Yamato and Musashi).

They always disappoint.

China should make explicit that China's non first use of nuclear policy will not be applicable specifically to Japan as it intends to develop strategic offensive weapons and pursue preemptive strike policies at potential enemies now.

Japan has already previously used chemical and biological weapons against China, so it's only natural they receive some WMD in return.

 

[FuturePAF]

It is very likely that China will produce additional 30 Type 052DL (including the improved variant) hulls.

Because the Type 052DL is still very advanced with inexpensive price, and it is the only viable modern destroyers that can be produced in huge quantity.

Same for the Type 093B, a relatively advanced SSN that approaches the level of the Virginia class that China can easily pop up more than 30 units within a couple of years.

Since my initial exposure to military knowledge started with a magazine with the 052B on the cover, I personally preferred the 052 series to the 055.
And my subjective preference was to see the 052 become the backbone of the Chinese Navy, which is why I predicted that there would be a total of 72 052s.
However, various pieces of information are now indicating that the 052DL may be the last of the 052. The 055 is the protagonist of the Chinese Navy.
Maybe the 052 isn't suited for railguns and laser weapons. We need to learn to accept new times.

btw: There are very many Chinese military fans like me who prefer the 052 series, and we would hate to see the 052 go. We always hope that the 052 will continue to be produced.

I agree both of you. The Type 052DL is a mature and advanced design at a relatively modest price for what it can do. Considering how fast technology is advancing, a slightly scaled up version and modernized should be looked into, IMHO, especially considering potential interest from GCC countries and the geopolitical and SLOC defense potential there.

96 VLS cells (after the removal of the VLS radar) could make it just as potent as an Arleigh Burke, freeing up the Type 055/A/B for blue water operations in and around China, while the Type 052 variants protect the SLOCs.

 

[FuturePAF]

Any veracity to the claim Saudis are buying 12 Type 052DL destroyers for $12 Billion (plus 6 for Algeria)? If true, they will be able to defend their own SLOCs (from the Iranians, and Houthis, but also any pirates, or if war breaks out on the SLOCs to Europe or Asia independent of other powers).

Considering the US congress is unwilling to give an Article 5 level security guarantee, the Saudis will benefit from doing it themselves.

If true, any indications what upgrades (outside of regional specific improved air conditioning) they are seeking?

 

[etylo]

Any veracity to the claim Saudis are buying 12 Type 052DL destroyers? If true, they will be able to defend their own SLOCs (from the Iranians, and Houthis, but also any pirates, or if war breaks out on the SLOCs to Europe or Asia independent of other powers).

Considering the US congress is unwilling to give an Article 5 level security guarantee, the Saudis will benefit from doing it themselves.

If true, any indications what upgrades (outside of regional specific improved air conditioning) they are seeking?

If Saudi want to create a blue water Indian ocean fleet navy, then I think they will buy that many number 12 of 052DL.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Any veracity to the claim Saudis are buying 12 Type 052DL destroyers for $12 Billion? If true, they will be able to defend their own SLOCs (from the Iranians, and Houthis, but also any pirates, or if war breaks out on the SLOCs to Europe or Asia independent of other powers).

Considering the US congress is unwilling to give an Article 5 level security guarantee, the Saudis will benefit from doing it themselves.

If true, any indications what upgrades (outside of regional specific improved air conditioning) they are seeking?

For now, I will put this news on hold.

I am not sure if Saudi navy can provide a such logistic support for those 12 Type 052DL destroyers.

 

[FuturePAF]

For now, I will put this news on hold.

I am not sure if Saudi navy can provide a such logistic support for those 12 Type 052DL destroyers.

Perhaps it’s officers will be Saudi and initial crew could be mixed Saudi and Chinese?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Perhaps it’s officers will be Saudi and initial crew could be mixed Saudi and Chinese?

If this is the case, then China will send those logistic specialists to assist.

 

[FuturePAF]

If this is the case, then China will send those logistic specialists to assist.

In the second video it says China is ready to provide a “complete package of support”. I’d assume they will hire Chinese contractors until they have enough local labor to do the work domestically.

12 ships would really mean a scaling up of the manpower of the Saudi Navy. How long does it take to train enlisted crew for a Type 052DL?

 

[MH.Yang]

Any veracity to the claim Saudis are buying 12 Type 052DL destroyers for $12 Billion (plus 6 for Algeria)? If true, they will be able to defend their own SLOCs (from the Iranians, and Houthis, but also any pirates, or if war breaks out on the SLOCs to Europe or Asia independent of other powers).

Considering the US congress is unwilling to give an Article 5 level security guarantee, the Saudis will benefit from doing it themselves.

If true, any indications what upgrades (outside of regional specific improved air conditioning) they are seeking?

If Saudi Arabia buys 12 052DLs, then Saudi Arabia wants not just the Persian Gulf, but the Indian Ocean. I'm not the only one who would judge it that way, everyone does, including Americans.

As far as I know, the main strength of the US Navy is in the Seventh Fleet. The Fifth Fleet doesn't have much strength.

Of course, if it is true news, it will be a major boon for Pakistan. But it will seriously affect the interests of countries around the Indian Ocean, including India, Iran, Yemen, Egypt and others. The Chinese government is usually very cautious when it comes to this kind of boulder in the water. The Chinese government has always been reluctant to get too involved in the political maelstrom in the Middle East.

 

[FuturePAF]

If Saudi Arabia buys 12 052DLs, then Saudi Arabia wants not just the Persian Gulf, but the Indian Ocean. I'm not the only one who would judge it that way, everyone does, including Americans.

As far as I know, the main strength of the US Navy is in the Seventh Fleet. The Fifth Fleet doesn't have much strength.

Of course, if it is true news, it will be a major boon for Pakistan. But it will seriously affect the interests of countries around the Indian Ocean, including India, Iran, Yemen, Egypt and others. The Chinese government is usually very cautious when it comes to this kind of boulder in the water. The Chinese government has always been reluctant to get too involved in the political maelstrom in the Middle East.

Perhaps this is building upon Iran-Saudi Reproachment, especially after the US didn’t give the security guarantee to the Saudis. There could be a new understanding in the region which the Chinese are brokering. Maximal Diplomacy over helping one side of the other. Also a good way to protect the SLOCs without Chinese troops (only Chinese contractors) in Saudi.

How do you see this move as a boon for Pakistan? Perhaps there is a clause in the Chinese deal that only crew from approved nations will be allowed to be contractors on the ships?

 

[MH.Yang]

Perhaps this is building upon Iran-Saudi Reproachment, especially after the US didn’t give the security guarantee to the Saudis. There could be a new understanding in the region which the Chinese are brokering. Maximal Diplomacy over helping one side of the other. Also a good way to protect the SLOCs without Chinese troops (only Chinese contractors) in Saudi.

How do you see this move as a boon for Pakistan? Perhaps there is a clause in the Chinese deal that only crew from approved nations will be allowed to be contractors on the ships?

I doubt the veracity of this message. It's not a matter of tens of billions of dollars, it's a huge political investment. The big question is what the Saudis want and what China can get.

 

[FuturePAF]

I doubt the veracity of this message. It's not a matter of tens of billions of dollars, it's a huge political investment. The big question is what the Saudis want and what China can get.

It’s true, China would have to trust the Saudis to be giving them such advanced weapons. There is definitely a political component.