Japanese and South Korean fighter planes

[xunzi]

Lifetime or more accurately MTBR (mean time between repairs) of WS-10 please. If it's on par with Russian engines, then yes, you are not in the same league.
China still imports turbine blades from Russia.



Is China About to Get Its Military Jet Engine Program Off the Ground? - China Real Time Report - WSJ

China had improve the engine WS-10 from its initial release and only time will tell of its reliability. Based on the increased mass-produce number of WS-10B to fit into the J-10B, I am very confident that its reliability is on par with AF-31F, F-100-PW-100, and F-1110-GE-100. Otherwise, China would not risk wasting billion to mass produce.

As for that poster that claimed we still buy Russian engine... That is a lie. We haven't bought any since the introduction of WS-10. The Sukhoi Su-35 deal that equipped with Russian's current best 117S engine is only a speculation. Beside the J-20 air frame design cannot fit with 117S engine and electronics is not program for it, unless our engineers did a whole redesign and mass produce another version of J-20 with WS-15. It's a nightmare to have two J-20 design to fit two different engines so I don't believe 117S engine will be used on J-20 as speculated by most. Either China will delay until WS-15 is ready, or we will most likely used two WS-10B. If the Sukhoi Su-35 deal is even true, it would be used for that specific aircraft to beef up our air force until J-20 is completely ready.

 

[Audio]

Considering the 12+ ton statement, @Chinese-Dragon is correct, but don't you think if someone can make a smaller engine like Japan, for many decades, since 1942 actually, they can make a bigger more powerful one, if they need to and put funding and resources into it?
They are saying they can achieve Mach 2 with it and it is same power as Snecma M88 used in Rafale. But I posted all info I could find about it, I don't know more and I am not an expert on engines or fighter planes.

i think "the scholar" has me on ignore because he can't refute anything i say, so:

IHI Corp. is to develop a technology-demonstrator engine of 15 metric tons (33,000 lb.) thrust, according to an official document seen by Aviation Week.

Japan Aims To Launch F-3 Development In 2016-17

Linked him this exact article in a previous thread, he already "forgot".

 

[xunzi]

Considering the 12+ ton statement, @Chinese-Dragon is correct, but don't you think if someone can make a smaller engine like Japan, for many decades, since 1942 actually, they can make a bigger more powerful one, if they need to and put funding and resources into it?

Do I believe Japan can indigenously, not semi, but completely produce an indigenous engine? Yes but not for 5th-gen engine requirement for at least 2 or 3 decades. Japan still haven't produce a 4th engine on their own yet, let alone jumping to 5th gen.

It's not just about funding and resources, but the time needed for testing. A low-bypass turbofan engine for 5th gen required a decade to test. You can have a complete model of a 5th gen engine but the time needed to test is that long.

They are saying they can achieve Mach 2 with it and it is same power as Snecma M88 used in Rafale. But I posted all info I could find about it, I don't know more and I am not an expert on engines or fighter planes.

I don't know. Based on the spec, it's under power for 5th gen aircraft unless they are striking for a 4th gen later on and continue to improve on the engine like we did with WS-10 and WS-15.

If you want to seek expert opinion, go to sinodefenceforum and look for a member named "Engineer". He is the most knowledgeable in aircraft.

 

[kalu_miah]

i think "the scholar" has me on ignore because he can't refute anything i say, so:

Japan Aims To Launch F-3 Development In 2016-17

Linked him this exact article in a previous thread, he already "forgot".

So that clears it up then, good job.

 

[Audio]

China had improve the engine WS-10 from its initial release and only time will tell of its reliability. Based on the increased mass-produce number of WS-10B to fit into the J-10B, I am very confident that its reliability is on par with AF-31F, F-100-PW-100, and F-1110-GE-100. Otherwise, China would not risk wasting billion to mass produce.

Nevermind AF-31F isn't on par with western engines....

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Damn! I really liked the F-16 Japanese version, how the F-35 is going to be? Well, we will want to wait and see.

 

[Audio]

Japan still haven't produce a 4th engine on their own yet, let alone jumping to 5th gen.

Two posts earlier:

That engine is under power for a 5th gen and most likely suit for 4th gen. Any previous experience of World War II engine had little value to modern turbofan engine design. The core technology is very much brand new.

Slow down man, you're getting entangled in your own webby construct.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Nevermind AF-31F isn't on par with western engines....

Speaking of Aircrafts, I like this Pilatus PC-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kalu_miah]

Speaking of Aircrafts, I like this Pilatus PC-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like RSAF ordered 55 of these.

 

[Audio]

Speaking of Aircrafts, I like this Pilatus PC-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yea, Switzerland would so win WWII if we had one of those.

 

[xunzi]

i think "the scholar" has me on ignore because he can't refute anything i say, so:



Japan Aims To Launch F-3 Development In 2016-17

Linked him this exact article in a previous thread, he already "forgot".

That afterburner, my friend. Equivalent of WS-10A that we power the 4th gen aircraft and WS-10B (35,000 lbf) that power the 4+ th gen.

Nevermind AF-31F isn't on par with western engines....

AF-31F is a Russian engine and not design to compete with the best of the West (USA's Pratt & Whitney F119).

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Looks like RSAF ordered 55 of these.

The RSAF was hooked up on it

The Swiss ppl are good friends of ours.

No more wars! Switzerland is a peace-loving country

Yea, Switzerland would so win WWII if we had one of those.

 

[kalu_miah]

Do I believe Japan can indigenously, not semi, but completely produce an indigenous engine? Yes but not for 5th-gen engine requirement for at least 2 or 3 decades. Japan still haven't produce a 4th engine on their own yet, let alone jumping to 5th gen.

It's not just about funding and resources, but the time needed for testing. A low-bypass turbofan engine for 5th gen required a decade to test. You can have a complete model of a 5th gen engine but the time needed to test is that long.

I don't know. Based on the spec, it's under power for 5th gen aircraft unless they are striking for a 4th gen later on and continue to improve on the engine like we did with WS-10 and WS-15.

If you want to seek expert opinion, go to sinodefenceforum and look for a member named "Engineer". He is the most knowledgeable in aircraft.

Here is more details on the IHI engine for ATD-X from the article @Audio posted:
Japan Aims To Launch F-3 Development In 2016-17

The power of the IHI demonstrator engine is surprising. It would generate 50% more thrust than the General Electric F414, two of which power the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. The Super Hornet's thrust is not notably high for its empty mass, 14.6 tons (32,100 lb.), but in a twin-engine installation the output of the IHI demonstrator would be abundant for a larger, budget-straining aircraft. It does seem that Japan is looking for a twin aircraft: In a single installation, the engine would be adequate for only a modestly sized fighter, hardly suitable as an F-15 replacement.

Japan has discussed plans for such an engine for some time, but the specific thrust and intention to build a full-scale demonstrator have not been disclosed. Japanese industry revealed a drawing of the engine last year, showing that it would follow the general configuration of the Pratt & Whitney F119 and have a sophisticated arrangement of inlet vanes designed to disrupt radar reflections (AW&ST Feb. 14, 2011, p. 33). In its budget request for the fiscal year beginning April 1, 2013, the ministry has published drawings of three of the engine's modules: fan, high-pressure section and the low-pressure turbine.

The key goal of the engine program is to build an unusually slim turbofan. The low frontal area and the modest bypass ratio evident in drawings would both promote the ability to fly supersonically without afterburner. So would the generous thrust, although 33,000 lb. must be the afterburning rating; the maximum dry output is unknown.

Researchers are aiming to achieve the highest possible temperature at the inlet to the high-pressure turbine, the ministry says in its budget request. They can already achieve 1,600C (2,900F) but want to go higher during the study program, while also reducing engine weight, it says. Mitsubishi Heavy said last year it had achieved a 1,600C turbine inlet temperature, the highest ever, for an electricity-generating engine to be installed in a power station.

Previously disclosed elements of the Japanese engine research include single-crystal turbine rotor blades, stator blades made of ceramic matrix composite (a ceramic reinforced with carbon fiber) and an advanced combustor.

 

[Audio]

That afterburner, my friend. Equivalent of WS-10A that we power the 4th gen aircraft and WS-10B (35,000 lbf) that power the 4+ th gen.

Err, except the highest rated version of WS-10 (what you refer to WS-15, but started as WS-10G) is also rated at 35.000 lbf. So, if that's good enough for Chinese 5h gen, why wouldn't it be for Japanese?

The plan , i emphasize plan, is for 40.000lbf in the final version and if we take size comparison between ATD-X and J-20 the extra 5.000 lbf is lost on the assumed bigger weight of the J-20.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_WS-15#Specifications_.28WS-15.29

 

[xunzi]

Two posts earlier:



Slow down man, you're getting entangled in your own webby construct.

My statement is still correct. Japan still haven't produce a 4th aircraft on their own, yet. And people expect them to jump to 5th gen without us having skepticism.