Japan unveils massive $110 billion plan for Asia’s infrastructure to counter China

[Bussard Ramjet]

Ambivalence is also part of strategy. You will know Japan's stance when the time comes.

So what should Japan do according to you? Lets say China strikes in 2022.

 

[mike2000 is back]

I am a broad minded man, and see the arrival of Commodore Matthew C Perry as a necessity.

He directly propelled Japan to advance, and propelled the downfall of the Tokugawa Bakufu (Shogunate).

Western arrival to Japan helped transform Japan from a feudal society to an Industrial Power.

So I see Western interventionism as a positive in context to Japanese Modernization.

Completely agree, couldn't have said it better. The arrival of commodore Mathew Perry was indeed a wake up call/saviour for Japan. Even more so the willingness of Japan to acknowledge it was backward /lagging farrrrr behind the west and learn from the west is laudable indeed . China by contrast refused to open up and learn from the more advanced west even when we sent several representatives /envoys pelading with them to open up for trade /business /technology/exchanges etc since their leaders /emperors thought they were still the centre of universe /middle kingdom /most advanced country on earth. Once you start thinking you are more advanced than every one and don't want to learn from others, then that's the beginning of your downfall. Reason Japan prospered to be a highly developed /industrial Power who rivalled any western power at the time while Chinese declined into chaos/backwardness/sudfered a century of humiliation. So always good to learn from history so as not to repeat it.

 

[CCP]

But China was richer than the British Empire.

Even then.

Did I mention industrial base?

the time while Chinese declined into chaos/backwardness/sudfered a century of humiliation. So always good to learn from history so as not to repeat it.

We know it was start by UK.

 

[Aepsilons]

Completely agree, couldn't have said it better. The arrival of commodore Mathew Perry was indeed a wake up call/saviour for Japan. Even more so the willingness of Japan to acknowledge it was backward /lagging farrrrr behind the west and learn from the west is laudable indeed . China by contrast refused to open up and learn from the more advanced west even when we sent several representatives /envoys pelading with them to open up for trade /business /technology/exchanges etc since their leaders /emperors thought they were still the centre of universe /middle kingdom /most advanced country on earth. Once you start thinking you are more advanced than every one and don't want to learn from others, then that's the beginning of your downfall. Reason Japan prospered to be a highly developed /industrial Power who rivalled any western power at the time while Chinese declined into chaos/backwardness/sudfered a century of humiliation. So always good to learn from history so as not to repeat it.

That is what is important to understand the Japanese mindset, Mike. In Japan, students are taught about various aspects and periods of Japanese history, from the pre-historic part, the Sengoku Jidai (warring states period), the Tokugawa Period, but most importantly, we are also taught about the Meiji Period. And before the Meiji Period, there is a special mention of America's Perry coming to Japan and arm twisting the Tokuagawa Shogunate to open Japan to trade through the Treaty of Kanagawa.

We Japanese don't see this as a period of humiliation, merely a period of AWAKENING. It was because of Perry that the Tokugawa Bakufu lost its preeminence to rule, ushering in the Imperial Restoration (Meiji Restoration), and the reforms for the country. A much needed reformation, actually.

Early on, Mike, Japan saw the need to keep in par with the West, and not sink back into the abominable ignorance of defeatist latitude in thinking the superiority of one's own while failing to comprehend the shear force of the competitor. Notice that Japan, unlike many countries in Asia that fought against the West early on without proper modernization and ultimately were conuered ergo, The Indian States, the Burmese Tongoo Dynasty, the Malay States, Viet Nam, et ceteral et cetera. Japan did not engage the West early on, no, to do so would be foolish. Rather, we modernized and adopted much of the Western empiricism , to advance Japanese society.

And, literally, Mike, in less than 30 years of modernization, we defeated QingChina (the richest and largest nation in the world). In less than 40 years after industrialization, we defeated the Russian Romanov Empire.

Not bad for a small, resource-poor, island state.

LOL!

 

[CCP]

But China was richer than the British Empire.

Even then.




Grandeur of the Qing Economy

That is one of the most important reason of the war.
China was richer but not industrial base and strong force.
UK kwon how to do, and give the dirty job to Japan.
UK just support weapon and money and took the most benefits at the end of the war. British pound instead of silver become world currey.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Nope the U. s had a large military presence in the Philippines and they were fully prepared since the Second World War was already raging all over Asia and Japan had attacked Pearl Harbour weeks earlier. In fact after the battle Japan captured over 80000 U.S soldiers(and it's Filipinos subordinates) and they were forced to were forced to embark on the infamous "Death March" to a prison camp more than 100 kilometers north, while general mc Arthur narrowly escaped to Australia. so yes the U.S was prepared, but they kind of underestimated Japan's resolve /strength, since they somehow thought Japanese being small in size /short were less powerful than the average American /westerner and moreover the U. S had a technological advantage over Japan (or so we thought) , so there was no reason to believe the U.S could be defeated.

Secondly yes we were bloody shocked russia lost so terribly /easily to be honest. We never really expected Japan to defeat Russia this easily at all. In fact prior to this NO asian country had ever defeated a western country /power in war. So we never really expected Japan to do so, even with the logistic/intelligence/material support we gave Japan . Moreover as i said, Japan had a far smaller /inferior navy to Russia. So we thought Japan might inflict considerable damage at best to the Russians (which would have benefited us) but we never expected them to completely eradicate the Russian mighty naval fleet. lol Banzai

Japanese Occupation of the Philippines
Japanese occupation of the Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What was the impact of Japan's victory over Russia in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905? - Quora

Yes, Japan defeated Qing Dynasty in 1895, then Russia in 1905. The aggressions went on Korean peninsula, Manchuria, inland China, Hong Kong, SE Asia (including Philippines as you posted) and so on.

@Nihonjin1051 no offense dude but Japanese forces back then while invincible but were also brutal. Japan set up concentration camps ("internment" camps) for defeated British, French, Dutch and American troops, the below are some pictures of the lucky survivors at the end of the war, and that's just from the East Indies region alone! Was it true that Japan inflicted more casualities to US than what's did by Nazi Germany in WWII? How serious was that?

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 no offense dude but Japanese forces back then while invincible but were also brutal. Japan set up concentration camps ("internment" camps) for defeated British, French, Dutch and American troops, the below are some pictures of the lucky survivors at the end of the war. Was it true that Japan inflicted more casualities to US than what's did by Nazi Germany in WWII? How serious was that?

@Shotgunner51 ,

I will not deny that the way the prisoners of war were treated in these internment camps was a gross violation of international decorum and past agreements as per the Geneva Convention. The Americans, British, French, Dutch as well as native Asians suffered due to the brutal inter-war policies.

 

[Economic superpower]

2. Are you what mad? Carbon fibres are used to make almost everything! Japan has almost exclusive monopoly on Carbon fibres which are something that both the countries monitor heavily. Japan is also very good at composites.

4. That train was built by the germans as far as I know. Also, they are ahead. They have already tested in real field situation maglev that touch 700kmph. Also, the same technology can also be used in rail guns and EMALS, so I will wager to say that Japan with the right funds can produce those systems faster than China.

5. Today politics, economics, and military are intricately linked. Japan is better at remote sensing, and micro satellites compared to China.

6. In modern warfare, this is, many times, all that matters. How did USSR collapse? Why does whole Europe essentially hate Russia?

2. China can produce T-800 carbon fiber material-Professional manufacturer of carbon fiber products| Carbon Fiber Solutions READ
China is very good at composites which is already applied to Chinese fighter jets.

4. This is Japan vs China. Not Germany. China already has Shanghai Maglev train in operation. China is already working on rail guns and EMALS, just ask @cirr and @ChineseTiger1986 and read Richard Fisher if you want more proof. Don't give your opinion, give me proof.

5. Proof? Which Japanese imagery satellite is better than China's Gaofen-2? If you know it, then name it.

6. I want technologies, not your useless opinion.

 

[Shotgunner51]

@Shotgunner51 ,

I will not deny that the way the prisoners of war were treated in these internment camps was a gross violation of international decorum and past agreements as per the Geneva Convention. The Americans, British, French, Dutch as well as native Asians suffered due to the brutal inter-war policies.

Wish there are more pacifist like you in Japan, and no more war!

BTW did Japan inflicted more casualties to US than Nazi Germany? Send link if convenient, then let's end history session and go back to financing, that's more fun!

 

[Aepsilons]

2. China can produce T-800 carbon fiber material-Professional manufacturer of carbon fiber products| Carbon Fiber Solutions READ
China is very good at composites which is already applied to Chinese fighter jets.

4. This is Japan vs China. Not Germany. China already has Shanghai Maglev train in operation. China is already working on rail guns and EMALS, just ask @cirr and @ChineseTiger1986 and read Richard Fisher if you want more proof. Don't give your opinion, give me proof.

5. Proof? Which Japanese imagery satellite is better than China's Gaofen-2? If you know it, then name it.

6. I want technologies, not your useless opinion.

Eco,

No doubt no one, not even Japanese, ignores the massive entrepreneurial spirit of China, the Chinese people, and the massive economic machine of this country. China is , as what @Shotgunner51 pointed out in a past post --- not the same comparison for Japan. Japan, tho is an ultra-developed country, great technologies, is not the same as China since China , by her disposition, is a continental-sized power. Japan, as you may know, is an Archipelago, and due to this geographical constraint, will be limited in terms of natural resources.

While Japan is growing now, we have to also appreciate the Chinese potential.

In the end, if we are to apply a meta-analytic appraisal of the situation in Asia, we can agree upon that both Chinese and Japanese investments will drive regional development, as well as fuel more growth in both Japan and China. This is a positive and dynamic relationship, provided we keep politics and nationalistic tendencies out of the equation.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

@Shotgunner51 ,

I will not deny that the way the prisoners of war were treated in these internment camps was a gross violation of international decorum and past agreements as per the Geneva Convention. The Americans, British, French, Dutch as well as native Asians suffered due to the brutal inter-war policies.

You didn't answer my question. What should Japan do according to you, in the case of a Taiwan conflict?

Eco,

No doubt no one, not even Japanese, ignores the massive entrepreneurial spirit of China, the Chinese people, and the massive economic machine of this country. China is , as what @Shotgunner51 pointed out in a past post --- not the same comparison for Japan. Japan, tho is an ultra-developed country, great technologies, is not the same as China since China , by her disposition, is a continental-sized power. Japan, as you may know, is an Archipelago, and due to this geographical constraint, will be limited in terms of natural resources.

While Japan is growing now, we have to also appreciate the Chinese potential.

In the end, if we are to apply a meta-analytic appraisal of the situation in Asia, we can agree upon that both Chinese and Japanese investments will drive regional development, as well as fuel more growth in both Japan and China. This is a positive and dynamic relationship, provided we keep politics and nationalistic tendencies out of the equation.

Should I take your silence as an affirmation of intervening in a Taiwan conflict?

 

[mike2000 is back]

That is one of the most important reason of the war.
China was richer but not industrial base and strong force.
UK kwon how to do, and give the dirty job to Japan.
UK just support weapon and money and took the most benefits at the end of the war. British pound instead of silver become world currey.

Well that's why we are master strategists. Afterall, how do you think such a small isolated European island country like ours manage to rule the world (far bigger countries included),spreading our language world wide and build the world's largest /most influential empire in history? strategy is most often even a bigger strength /advantage than physical strength /power. Reason sometimes a less bigger power can defeat a bigger one.

 

[xunzi]

Look like the fake Pacifist is trying to cause trouble again. As long as it helps facilitate trade and the investment is fair based on international standard, we always welcome competition.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Yes, Japan defeated Qing Dynasty in 1895, then Russia in 1905.Japanese aggressions went on Korean peninsula, Manchuria, inland China, Hong Kong, SE Asia (including Philippines as you posted) and so on.

@Nihonjin1051 no offense dude but Japanese forces back then while invincible but were also brutal. Japan set up concentration camps ("internment" camps) for defeated British, French, Dutch and American troops, the below are some pictures of the lucky survivors at the end of the war, and that's just from the East Indies region alone! Was it true that Japan inflicted more casualities to US than what's did by Nazi Germany in WWII? How serious was that?

View attachment 223813

Funny thing is that without commodore Mathew Perry sailing to Japan and forcing Japan to open up to trade, and the Japanese imperial leadership being far sighted enough to topple the backward looking isolation obsessed shugonate(much like the Qing government) and learn from the more advanced west, then Japan will have certainly be one of our(western) colonies as well. it too would have been invaded,colonised and ruled like much of Asia during that period.
So fortunately for Japan, it made the right choice at the right time and followed the west to industrialise (the first Asian country to do so) and develope to a major world power which rivalled the west in all fields. Too bad China didn't follow suite, but that again is history, things have changed and the world is different now.

 

[MULUBJA]

The problem is we lack the money

In Modi Regime, we will find load of fund being channelized into development and infrastructure.