Japan unveils massive $110 billion plan for Asia’s infrastructure to counter China

[Tresbon]

Well as I said, the Japanese are among the most productive country in the world along with the U. S. So, if anything Japan should serve as a model for China (and much of Asia) to follow. So the Chinese can underestimate any country in Asia, but not Japan.

No other country better knows japan than china and vice versa. japan innately is a expansionist country due to its deep rooted sense of insecurity. Unlike the most chinese members here, i am for american military presence in east asia, it brings about precious peaceful time for china to develop. so long as america is here, japan will behave like a good boy, a pacifist country in the eyes of most other countries. However, sooner or later, america will leave east aisa , when that day comes, japan will face an unfriendly or hostile china alone, japan is full aware of what china is thinking about, I can tell from anxious and apprehensive expressions on abe' s face. boasting of more than 3000 years of continuous, written history, china, as a nation, has a long memory, what happened 100 years ago is like it just happaned yesterday, japan, once a barbarian invader and sanguinary butcher on Chinese soil, is not easily forgotten by chinese people, the old scores between china and japan has not yet settled completely. When the day comes china will set to settle the diaoyu island issue, by force if necessary . The victory will symbolize japan's submission. And china will continue to take a provocative stance to japan until china believes he has "tamed" japan like america did before. I remember one western analyst once said when america leave eastasia, it will leave japan no option but kowtow to china. your judgment about japan is right --- never underestimate japan, to china, japan is just like a wild dog lurking in the darkness, ready to bite you at any moment when you are weak or exhibit signs of weakness. Every dog has its day, but japan's day is not in foreseeable future. I believe in historical cycle, japan's day did come, and will come in future, when? God knows.

 

[Jayanta]

Please teach me, Sensei, I fear my understanding is greatly sub par.



India is part of the Southeast !

Japani- Aseani - Hindi- Pakistani Bhai Bhai

Are you Muslim??? If not you cannot be the bhai of the bold nation.

 

[Zero_wing]

Hahaha i just love how you people are still on that while you guys building things out nothing threatening with your war mongering and nation like Japan who committed crimes 70 years ago is still a threat to you funny

 

[Huan]

Completely agree, couldn't have said it better. The arrival of commodore Mathew Perry was indeed a wake up call/saviour for Japan. Even more so the willingness of Japan to acknowledge it was backward /lagging farrrrr behind the west and learn from the west is laudable indeed . China by contrast refused to open up and learn from the more advanced west even when we sent several representatives /envoys pelading with them to open up for trade /business /technology/exchanges etc since their leaders /emperors thought they were still the centre of universe /middle kingdom /most advanced country on earth. Once you start thinking you are more advanced than every one and don't want to learn from others, then that's the beginning of your downfall. Reason Japan prospered to be a highly developed /industrial Power who rivalled any western power at the time while Chinese declined into chaos/backwardness/sudfered a century of humiliation. So always good to learn from history so as not to repeat it.

And in the process, China permanently loss a bunch of northern territory to Russia during that period. Such disgraceful emperors of that time.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Early on, Mike, Japan saw the need to keep in par with the West, and not sink back into the abominable ignorance of defeatist latitude in thinking the superiority of one's own while failing to comprehend the shear force of the competitor. Notice that Japan, unlike many countries in Asia that fought against the West early on without proper modernization and ultimately were conuered ergo, The Indian States, the Burmese Tongoo Dynasty, the Malay States, Viet Nam, et ceteral et cetera. Japan did not engage the West early on, no, to do so would be foolish. Rather, we modernized and adopted much of the Western empiricism , to advance Japanese society.

And, literally, Mike, in less than 30 years of modernization, we defeated QingChina (the richest and largest nation in the world). In less than 40 years after industrialization, we defeated the Russian Romanov Empire.

Not bad for a small, resource-poor, island state.

LOL!

Well, it's true that Japan's defeat of Russia had a tremendous impact on Asia's independence movements from our British India to French Vietnam (Indo China) to American Philippines etc, before that Asia's nationalist /independence activists replied merely on ideas, but japans defeat of a European/western major power showed Asians that the west wasnt invisible and galvanised Asian independence activists and many started recording to violence to achieve their aims.
Just like sun yat tsen said I quote :
"In former days, the colored races in Asia, suffering from the oppression of the Western peoples, thought that emancipation was impossible. We regarded that Russian defeat by Japan as the defeat of the West by the East. We regarded the Japanese victory as our own victory. It was indeed a happy event. Did not therefore this news of Russia's defeat by Japan affect the peoples of the whole of Asia? Was not its effect tremendous? While it may not have seemed so important and consequently have had only a slight effect on the peoples living in East Asia, it had a great effect on the peoples living in West Asia and in the neighborhood of Europe who were in constant touch with Europeans and subject to their oppression daily. The suffering of these Asiatic peoples was naturally greater than that of those living in the further East, and they were therefore more quick to respond to the news of this great victory.

Since the day of Japan's victory over Russia, the peoples of Asia have cherished the hope of shaking off the yoke of European oppression, a hope which has given rise to a series or independence movements-in Egypt, Persia, Turkey, Afghanistan, and finally in India. Therefore, Japan's defeat of Russia gave rise to a great hope for the independence of Asia. From the inception of this hope to the present day only 20 years have elapsed. The Egyptian, Turkish, Persian, Afghan, and Arabian independence movements have already materialized, and even the independence movement in India has, with the passage of time, been gaining ground. Such facts are concrete proofs of the progress of the nationalist idea in Asia. Until this idea reaches its full maturity, no unification or independence movement of the Asiatic peoples as a whole is possible. In East Asia, China and Japan are the two greatest peoples. China and Japan are the driving force of this nationalist movement. What will be the consequences of this driving force still remains to be seen. The present tide of events seems to indicate that not only China and Japan but all the peoples in East Asia will unite together to restore the former status of Asia."
-Sun Yatsen, founder of modern China


Also we shouldn't forget that Russia's rule over Manchuria was brutal, in which Russia massacred several Chinese civilians, men, children and women, which led to many Chinese to take up arms against Russians in Manchuria, these Chinese regarded as bandits will later on fight along side Japan during the 1905 Russo -Japanese war. one of the few times China actually cooperated with Japan against a foreign power. Lool

What was the impact of Japan's victory over Russia in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905? - Quora

And in the process, China permanently loss a bunch of northern territory to Russia during that period. Such disgraceful emperors of that time.

Russia has always been an expansionists power, funny to see some Chinese here thinking Russia today is a peaceful non aggressive nation who is being bullied by the west. the only difference today is that Russia is weaker today, so it can't act like it wants like before, not because it doesnt want to

 

[Kaniska]

And also, Japan has another advantage than China wrt Asian nations...It does not have any political baggage...For example, China has political baggage with India and some other major Asean nations...But Japan has placed itself no nicely that Japan can have good relationship with all the nations in Asia...Even the public sentiment in most of the Asian nations is very positive towards Japan....That is a very good advantage in terms of image of Japan in the mind of other nation.

If India gives concession to China in doing bussiness, there will be a political outburst, but if it is Japan, everyone will welcome them...It is the same story in most of the other South Asian nations including BD, Pakistan and Sri Lanka...

Personally i bet Japan to get engaged more with India as well as the dark Horse in South Asia in Bangladesh....Due to their able Prime Minister, BD is really doing good in the economic front...I can see a good future of BD in next 10 year which Japan can tap onto it..

So is Japan going to lend the money to counties without any pre-condition such as have to buy Japanese products with the money borrowed? Let alone the political ones.

Cause compare to Chinese products, Japanese products are usually 2 or 3 times more expensive while in infrastructure projects, Japanese have to reply on local man-power which usually could cause long delay of the project, in turn cause additional cost.

I'd say with $50 billion China can do much more than Japan's $110 billion.

I do not agree with you...China has only advantage that is in the area of infra building with low cost...But when nation talk of quality of product, Japan and its products are still hold the edge of beating their rival...Althou

Indeed, good news for us as we spend less, besides, working in newly developed asian countries will be great and serve as a conduit for increasing Japanese-ASEAN, Japanese-Indian, Japanese-Bangladeshi, Japanese-Sri Lankan, Japanese-Pakistani relations ---- an investment today is for the benefit of Asia's tomorrow.



Let us all realize the fruition of the Greater East, South & Southeast Asian Co Prosperity Sphere

Japanese Crane, in calligraphic model

Thanks mate, I am already working in a private bank making some 50 cents, not easy living in Shanghai you know how expensive things are!

@nihongjin1051 : Calm down would you bro? Don't fuel ultra-nationalism. Japan is obviously top-class advanced and have tremendous overseas clout, no doubt, however in terms of national strength both China and Japan have pros and cons. It's even unfair to compare the resources of a continental-sized China to Japan. Therefore while competing heavily from a strictly pragmatic business POV, the Japanese government should not let geopoltics (mostly US-driven), nationalism (which is even more dangerous than contemporary geopolitics, given the known history of Imperial Militarism) get into the head of business decision & planning. We are merely keyboard strategists here, so cheer up bro!

This is the best post of this entire thread....In my opinion, both China and Japan offers tremendous oppertunity to the world...Both nations have their own strengths and weakness. China has the advantage of low cost and average quality product and money...And in the same way Japan has the advantage of Best quality product in thei world with Money and expensive too... Now it depends on each individual nations to tap into these offerings and move it forward...It is good to have healthy completetion in Asia that will fuel growth..

 

[HRM YANG]

In fact, my friend, the Viceroy Lord Li Hongzhang was very good friends with the Marshall Admiral Baron Ito Sukeyuki. During the Meiji Restoration , as a younger career military officer Baron Ito Sukeyuki had crossed paths with Lord Li Hongzhang when in a diplomatic mission to China's Shandong to meet with European naval attaches to discuss naval purchases and training. In fact both Li and Ito were involved in the modernization of the Beiyang Fleet and the Imperial Fleet, respectively. They remained very close friends, even after the war. When Li Hongzhang died in 1901, the Marshal Admiral Baron Ito Sukeyuki was grieved beyond words. Besides Li Hongzhang, he was also good friends with Chinese Admiral Ding Ruchang , as both were students together in Naval training with the west.

When Admiral Sukeyaki had heard that his friend Admiral Ding committed suicide after the Battle of Yellow Sea, the Admiral broke protocol by weeping in front of the men. He had to be escorted to his chambers because that's how deep he was affected.

That was a time when Japanese and Chinese, tho they fought against each other, had so much passion and respect admiration for each other.

Kind of interesting if you read the letters and correspondence to each other. It's as if they were not just friends, but literally brothers.

They are noble persons indeed. My sentiment to Japan is...contradictory because i am a people of Jiangsu( which NanJing is the capital of this province), enmity does not work. I only promise I will dedicate myself to keep my country's interest, but I don't feeling good to induct.
I hope one day our two countries could achieve CHINESE previous PM ZHOU ENLAI's Consensus of staying peace, just like friends of 李鸿章 and いとうすけゆき。
I really hope.

 

[mike2000 is back]

And also, Japan has another advantage than China wrt Asian nations...It does not have any political baggage...For example, China has political baggage with India and some other major Asean nations...But Japan has placed itself no nicely that Japan can have good relationship with all the nations in Asia...Even the public sentiment in most of the Asian nations is very positive towards Japan....That is a very good advantage in terms of image of Japan in the mind of other nation.

If India gives concession to China in doing bussiness, there will be a political outburst, but if it is Japan, everyone will welcome them...It is the same story in most of the other South Asian nations including BD, Pakistan and Sri Lanka...

Personally i bet Japan to get engaged more with India as well as the dark Horse in South Asia in Bangladesh....Due to their able Prime Minister, BD is really doing good in the economic front...I can see a good future of BD in next 10 year which Japan can tap onto it..



I do not agree with you...China has only advantage that is in the area of infra building with low cost...But when nation talk of quality of product, Japan and its products are still hold the edge of beating their rival...Althou




This is the best post of this entire thread....In my opinion, both China and Japan offers tremendous oppertunity to the world...Both nations have their own strengths and weakness. China has the advantage of low cost and average quality product and money...And in the same way Japan has the advantage of Best quality product in thei world with Money and expensive too... Now it depends on each individual nations to tap into these offerings and move it forward...It is good to have healthy completetion in Asia that will fuel growth..

Well as we say in England, Japanese are tough to bastards. I admire tough bastards though. lol

No other country better knows japan than china and vice versa. japan innatelyy a expansionist country due to its deep rooted sense of insecurity. Unlike the most chinese members here, i am for american military presence in east asia, it brings about precious peaceful time for china to develop. so long as america is here, japan will behave like a good boy, a pacifist country in the eyes of most other countries. However, sooner or later, america will leave east aisa , when that day comes, japan will face an unfriendly or hostile china alone, japan is full aware of what china is thinking about, I can tell from anxious and apprehensive expressions on abe' s face. boasting of more than 3000 years of continuous, written history, china, as a nation, has a long memory, what happened 100 years ago is like it just happaned yesterday, japan, once a barbarian invader and sanguinary butcher on Chinese soil, is not easily forgotten by chinese people, the old scores between china and japan has not yet settled completely. When the day comes china will set to settle the diaoyu island issue, by force if necessary . The victory will symbolize japan's submission. And china will continue to take a provocative stance to japan until china believes he has "tamed" japan like america did before. I remember one western analyst once said when america leave eastasia, it will leave japan no option but kowtow to china. your judgment about japan is right --- never underestimate japan, to china, japan is just like a wild dog lurking in the darkness, ready to bite you at any moment when you are weak or exhibit signs of weakness. Every dog has its day, but japan's day is not in foreseeable future. I believe in historical cycle, japan's day did come, and will come in future, when? God knows.

What about Russia? They also committed lots of crimes in China, and NEVER EVER even uttered 1 vague word of apology, yet you people never ask them anything or apologies, in fact it's the opposite, you admire /like them. Lool Japan sure is a good/necesary punching back for you.

 

[HRM YANG]

We modern CHINESE should be more positive and should focus on boost ourselves.
We are aiming the NO.1 of the world.
We only know about that, we only care about that.
Who we will surpass, who will stop us striding, we don't give A damn.
We can't complain that we don't win because some is stronger than us. Even hate him.
We don't hate, we learn, we respect.

China! China!

 

[Kylin]

I do not agree with you...China has only advantage that is in the area of infra building with low cost...But when nation talk of quality of product, Japan and its products are still hold the edge of beating their rival...Althou

And Chinese products are definitely of bad quality? We are not talking about buying cheap stuff from Walmart, and isn't infrastructure the main goal of such funding?

True Japanese product have great quality but there is a diminishing of return, and when a country is borrowing money to buy products, why not looking for the best bang for your buck?

As long as the products meet the requirements and even if at the same quality, Chinese products simply cost less due to lower labour cost, more efficient and skilled infrastructure working force thanks to decades of building infrastructure in China.

Of course if the countries borrowing from you are buying weapons, go ahead, you have the edge in quality, just ungodly expensive. If such countries are willing to go into debt for "your high quality but also high priced products" before developing their country, its their own funeral.

 

[Aepsilons]

They are noble persons indeed. My sentiment to Japan is...contradictory because i am a people of Jiangsu( which NanJing is the capital of this province), enmity does not work. I only promise I will dedicate myself to keep my country's interest, but I don't feeling good to induct.
I hope one day our two countries could achieve CHINESE previous PM ZHOU ENLAI's Consensus of staying peace, just like friends of 李鸿章 and いとうすけゆき。
I really hope.

I hope so , too. At the end of the day, politics aside, we all want peace, to coexist together and do business peacefully.

Let's hope all sides remain level headed!

Well, it's true that Japan's defeat of Russia had a tremendous impact on Asia's independence movements from our British India to French Vietnam (Indo China) to American Philippines etc, before that Asia's nationalist /independence activists replied merely on ideas, but japans defeat of a European/western major power showed Asians that the west wasnt invisible and galvanised Asian independence activists and many started recording to violence to achieve their aims.
Just like sun yat tsen said I quote :
"In former days, the colored races in Asia, suffering from the oppression of the Western peoples, thought that emancipation was impossible. We regarded that Russian defeat by Japan as the defeat of the West by the East. We regarded the Japanese victory as our own victory. It was indeed a happy event. Did not therefore this news of Russia's defeat by Japan affect the peoples of the whole of Asia? Was not its effect tremendous? While it may not have seemed so important and consequently have had only a slight effect on the peoples living in East Asia, it had a great effect on the peoples living in West Asia and in the neighborhood of Europe who were in constant touch with Europeans and subject to their oppression daily. The suffering of these Asiatic peoples was naturally greater than that of those living in the further East, and they were therefore more quick to respond to the news of this great victory.

Since the day of Japan's victory over Russia, the peoples of Asia have cherished the hope of shaking off the yoke of European oppression, a hope which has given rise to a series or independence movements-in Egypt, Persia, Turkey, Afghanistan, and finally in India. Therefore, Japan's defeat of Russia gave rise to a great hope for the independence of Asia. From the inception of this hope to the present day only 20 years have elapsed. The Egyptian, Turkish, Persian, Afghan, and Arabian independence movements have already materialized, and even the independence movement in India has, with the passage of time, been gaining ground. Such facts are concrete proofs of the progress of the nationalist idea in Asia. Until this idea reaches its full maturity, no unification or independence movement of the Asiatic peoples as a whole is possible. In East Asia, China and Japan are the two greatest peoples. China and Japan are the driving force of this nationalist movement. What will be the consequences of this driving force still remains to be seen. The present tide of events seems to indicate that not only China and Japan but all the peoples in East Asia will unite together to restore the former status of Asia."
-Sun Yatsen, founder of modern China


Also we shouldn't forget that Russia's rule over Manchuria was brutal, in which Russia massacred several Chinese civilians, men, children and women, which led to many Chinese to take up arms against Russians in Manchuria, these Chinese regarded as bandits will later on fight along side Japan during the 1905 Russo -Japanese war. one of the few times China actually cooperated with Japan against a foreign power. Lool

What was the impact of Japan's victory over Russia in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905? - Quora


Russia has always been an expansionists power, funny to see some Chinese here thinking Russia today is a peaceful non aggressive nation who is being bullied by the west. the only difference today is that Russia is weaker today, so it can't act like it wants like before, not because it doesnt want to

Well said Mike!!

 

[Kaniska]

No...I am saying bad quality..but of course..every one knows the quality of product when some one compares between product of China to Product of Japan...I do not have to explain it to you...Again, it depends on the individual nations to determine which one they prefer..Wheather some one would like to go for Cheap quality products or higher ones, leave it to the individual public of each nation...

Take an example of India...Now Indian market of mobile phone is a mixure of cheap quality Chinies phones wrt to high end phones from Apple and Samsung..It is nothing to feel different about it...Even all of our mobile companies are procuring mobile phones from China because it is cheap...And in the same way, Apple and Samsung are also selling their phones in a big way...

 

[Zero_wing]

View attachment 224107
We modern CHINESE should be more positive and should focus on boost ourselves.
We are aiming the NO.1 of the world.
We only know about that, we only care about that.
Who we will surpass, who will stop us striding, we don't give A damn.
We can't complain that we don't win because some is stronger than us. Even hate him.
We don't hate, we learn, we respect.

China! China!

First part good for you keep it up second part if it benefits all without taking anyones else territories or ezz threatening peace and sovereignty am up for it third and fourth and the fifth that makes perfect sense if your arrogant and greedy and one of the truthful thing any chinese had said in this forum but sadly that was the motto of majority of the fallen empires of old and the last line was just lie otherwise you people will not have problems right now.

 

[HRM YANG]

First part good for you keep it up second part if it benefits all without taking anyones else territories or ezz threatening peace and sovereignty am up for it third and fourth and the fifth that makes perfect sense if your arrogant and greedy and one of the truthful thing any chinese had said in this forum but sadly that was the motto of majority of the fallen empires of old and the last line was just lie otherwise you people will not have problems right now.

Your comment is truly like what George Orwell wrote in his Politics and the English Language. How orthodox

 

[Zero_wing]

Your comment is truly like what George Orwell wrote in his Politics and the English Language. How orthodox

Wow so you people do read or google i mean you guys are authorized to google something as long its for your state.