Japan to loan ¥5 billion to Pakistan

[l'ingénieur]

Doing business in one country means you should comply with local regulation, which was made or approved by those politicians. This even cost more, that's why they just give the direct money.

Doing projects and investing yourself worth say around 20 million is still better than giving 50 million to the government. Dozens of countries have given Pakistan billions and billions of dollars to help us with the electricity issue and it has not helped at all. We are still in the same situation as we were many years ago.

 

[Aepsilons]

Doing projects and investing yourself worth say around 20 million is still better than giving 50 million to the government. Dozens of countries have given Pakistan billions and billions of dollars to help us with the electricity issue and it has not helped at all. We are still in the same situation as we were many years ago.

Sir @l'ingénieur , who exactly is siphoning these funds? Are they politicians in the central government? Regional governors? Local government units? If this is going on, they must be held accounted for, this is not right for the almost 200 million Pakistanis. It is shameful that these people do this...how can they sleep at night?

 

[American Pakistani]

You can bet that the standard quid pro quo is alive and well, when business matters are involved. Just because you haven't been made aware of the strings, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Any successful country is going to have a keen business sense. But I don't think anyone can question the amount of manpower and resources the US contributes when there is a humanitarian crisis almost anywhere in the world (if invited to help). Even to governments and populations that are not particularly friendly towards America at any other time.

The US govt took wrong move. Had it acted smartly & helped common people of Pakistan building schools, colleges, universities, world class hospitals, increase trade ties, imported more from Pakistan, etc instead of providing free $$ to Pakistani politicians, it would have strong support. Pakistanis are a kind of people who can lay their lives for their friends whereas for enemies they will remain enemies for generations.

 

[Aepsilons]

The US govt took wrong move. Had it acted smartly & helped common people of Pakistan building schools, colleges, universities, world class hospitals, increase trade ties, imported more from Pakistan, etc instead of providing free $$ to Pakistani politicians, it would have strong support. Pakistanis are a kind of people who can lay their lives for their friends whereas for enemies they will remain enemies for generations.

@American Pakistani ,

Do you believe that the relationship between Washington and Islamabad is salvageable? Honestly.

 

[l'ingénieur]

Sir @l'ingénieur , who exactly is siphoning these funds? Are they politicians in the central government? Regional governors? Local government units? If this is going on, they must be held accounted for, this is not right for the almost 200 million Pakistanis. It is shameful that these people do this...how can they sleep at night?

I am not exactly sure who brother but the only thing we can hope for is that these people would have retired or died in 30~ years time and they new generation of educated people would have replaced them to make Pakistan rise with its full potential.

 

[American Pakistani]

@American Pakistani ,

Do you believe that the relationship between Washington and Islamabad is salvageable? Honestly.

Depends on how committed Washington is.
For now the common man of Pakistan see US as a country who purchase Pakistani politicians.
So after spending billions of $$ it was all waste because they failed to make strong relation with common people of Pakistan.

I think Japan should not choose American way of providing free $$ to Pakistani politicians which is not beneficial. It is like out of 5 billion you throw 4.6 billion in garbage bin.

 

[OCguy]

The US govt took wrong move. Had it acted smartly & helped common people of Pakistan building schools, colleges, universities, world class hospitals, increase trade ties, imported more from Pakistan, etc instead of providing free $$ to Pakistani politicians, it would have strong support. Pakistanis are a kind of people who can lay their lives for their friends whereas for enemies they will remain enemies for generations.

If politicians are misappropriating the billions and billions the US has provided, I would think that faulting the donor is misguided at best.

America can't go physically build schools and infrastructure for a country that is skeptical of our regional presence as it is.

 

[American Pakistani]

If politicians are misappropriating the billions and billions the US has provided, I would think that faulting the donor is misguided at best.

America can't go physically build schools and infrastructure for a country that is skeptical of our regional presence as it is.

American govt need to learn from China. Look how they are working with Pakistan. Today if you ask a common person of Pakistan about China, his reply will be instant & positive.

 

[अखण्ड भारत!!!]

All the money will be gobbled by corrupt people and common man will still be at the same level

 

[OCguy]

American govt need to learn from China. Look how they are working with Pakistan. Today if you ask a common person of Pakistan about China, his reply will be instant & positive.

That isn't because of what the US is actually doing for Pakistan compared to China. That is because of the narrative about America and Americans that is told by certain power centers and extremists. That is why a website like this is so groundbreaking and important. The exchange of information and ideas lets people make up their own mind about the world.

Meanwhile, the reality is the US gives away more money for non-military assistance to Pakistan than Japan loans, and almost every year. I doubt that gets much word of mouth, though.

http://www.usaid.gov/sites/default/files/documents/1871/USAID_PAKISTAN_Report 2013_0.pdf

 

[KingMamba]

Much thanks to the Japanese, unlike Western investnent and loans Asian countries like China and Japan actually make sure the money is used right.

 

[OCguy]

Much thanks to the Japanese, unlike Western investnent and loans Asian countries like China and Japan actually make sure the money is used right.

You realize that this sort of sentiment makes even the most giving Westerners feel like they should not even bother, I hope.

 

[American Pakistani]

That isn't because of what the US is actually doing for Pakistan compared to China. That is because of the narrative about America and Americans that is told by certain power centers and extremists. That is why a website like this is so groundbreaking and important. The exchange of information and ideas lets people make up their own mind about the world.

Meanwhile, the reality is the US gives away more money for non-military assistance to Pakistan than Japan loans, and almost every year. I doubt that gets much word of mouth, though.

http://www.usaid.gov/sites/default/files/documents/1871/USAID_PAKISTAN_Report 2013_0.pdf

Extremists cannot do anything. I provide you Chinese example...look at how strong Sino-Pak relations are...what could extremists do about it? US money is seen as money to buy off the politicians. US need to make sure that the money it is providing is used for that purpose & not ending up in bank accounts of Pakistani politicians. Furthermore US needs to strengthen trade ties with Pakistan.

You realize that this sort of sentiment makes even the most giving Westerners feel like they should not even bother, I hope.

What do you mean by that? Don't you wanna make sure that the money American/Western govt is giving is used for the purpose that it had been given for?

 

[KingMamba]

You realize that this sort of sentiment makes even the most giving Westerners feel like they should not even bother, I hope.

What sentiment ? It is true westerners are amongst the most giving but I am not talking about individuals rather governments. Why every Pakistani wants US aid to stop? Cuz that money never reaches the people and is more of a bribe now look at Chinese they never invest if they think money will not be used right so when they do you see results. That is why there is more good will towards China than US despite US spending more. If US watched where their money was going they would be seen in a better light.

 

[OCguy]

What sentiment ? It is true westerners are amongst the most giving but I am not talking about individuals rather governments. Why every Pakistani wants US aid to stop? Cuz that money never reaches the people and is more of a bribe now look at Chinese they never invest if they think money will not be used right so when they do you see results. That is why there is more good will towards China than US despite US spending more. If US watched where their money was going they would be seen in a better light.

I just posted an entire report that shows where ~ $1bl/yr in direct aid goes. This is separate from the military assistance that we cannot control what happens to it.

I think just this thread sums it all up nicely. You have proof that the US gives more assistance for non-military support. But Japan loans money, on the condition of scaling back your national defense capabilities, and continuing to provide them the rare earth resources that they need, and you see them as the more moral party.

The basic human psychology is that the stereotypical American looks different far more different compared to a Pakistani than a Japanese person does. Nothing will change the perception of us by some, but oh well.

The fact that you could blame a gift-er for the misuse of the funds, instead of the abuser, is mind boggling from this side of the world, but alas our cultures are obviously different.