Japan may allow India to produce parts for US-2 amphibious aircraft

[Bang Galore]

Japan may agree to allow India to manufacture parts for US-2 amphibian aircraft to conclude a sales deal with New Delhi, a Tokyo government source said Tuesday.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe may convey Tokyo’s intention to approve production of some parts for the aircraft when he meets with India’s newly elected Prime Minister Narendra Modi, possibly on Sept. 1, during his visit to Japan, the source said.

In April, Tokyo eased its rules on the sale of defense equipment and transfer of defense technology in the first major overhaul of a decades-long arms embargo.

Produced by ShinMaywa Industries Ltd. and sold for around ¥12 billion per aircraft, the US-2 can take off and land in a short distance, even on rough seas, and engage in search and rescue operations. Currently, the Maritime Self-Defense Force has five US-2s in service.

By clinching a deal to sell the US-2 to India, the Abe administration could point to progress in its drive to bolster the flagging domestic defense industry through overseas sales under strict conditions.

Stronger security ties with other countries in the region would be another benefit for Japan, as China is increasing its influence and assertiveness in Asian waters.

Japan and India have been discussing the aircraft sale since December. But a major point of conflict has been whether to allow India to manufacture parts for the aircraft, given Japan’s concerns about technological leakage or transfers to third parties.

But India has been adamant in urging Japan to allow Indian companies to produce parts for the US-2, in hope of developing its own aviation industry, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

If an agreement is reached with New Delphi, Tokyo hopes to discuss details, including what parts Indian companies will be allowed to produce and when production would start, the government source said.

Japan may allow India to produce parts for US-2 amphibious aircraft | The Japan Times

 

[Echo_419]

Japan may agree to allow India to manufacture parts for US-2 amphibian aircraft to conclude a sales deal with New Delhi, a Tokyo government source said Tuesday.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe may convey Tokyo’s intention to approve production of some parts for the aircraft when he meets with India’s newly elected Prime Minister Narendra Modi, possibly on Sept. 1, during his visit to Japan, the source said.

In April, Tokyo eased its rules on the sale of defense equipment and transfer of defense technology in the first major overhaul of a decades-long arms embargo.

Produced by ShinMaywa Industries Ltd. and sold for around ¥12 billion per aircraft, the US-2 can take off and land in a short distance, even on rough seas, and engage in search and rescue operations. Currently, the Maritime Self-Defense Force has five US-2s in service.

By clinching a deal to sell the US-2 to India, the Abe administration could point to progress in its drive to bolster the flagging domestic defense industry through overseas sales under strict conditions.

Stronger security ties with other countries in the region would be another benefit for Japan, as China is increasing its influence and assertiveness in Asian waters.

Japan and India have been discussing the aircraft sale since December. But a major point of conflict has been whether to allow India to manufacture parts for the aircraft, given Japan’s concerns about technological leakage or transfers to third parties.

But India has been adamant in urging Japan to allow Indian companies to produce parts for the US-2, in hope of developing its own aviation industry, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

If an agreement is reached with New Delphi, Tokyo hopes to discuss details, including what parts Indian companies will be allowed to produce and when production would start, the government source said.

Japan may allow India to produce parts for US-2 amphibious aircraft | The Japan Times

Great news,just give the production of spare parts to TATA or Mahindra.they already have facilities for Spare parts for Aircrafts

 

[sancho]

Great news,just give the production of spare parts to TATA or Mahindra.they already have facilities for Spare parts for Aircrafts

Waste of time and money, another very expensive political deal like the C17, but with far less advantages for India. As excellent Japan is on the industrial / technical level, their support to us is always limited by their laws and the restrictions the US will give them. In a defence related sense, they are hardly a help either, since their forces are far too small to take on China alone, so they can't create a 2nd front in case we need support against China.
Even the aircraft is hardly useful, since it's operational use is too limited in the SAR role only and no private company will be interested in producing parts of an aircraft, that isn't selling on the export market anyway. Most countries that have a need of such a specific aircraft, opt for far cheaper solutions and even they are very small in numbers. So the benefit from a possible export potential is more than low, let alone the fact that even we need a very small number of these aircrafts.

 

[arp2041]

Hindi-Japani Bhai-Bhai!!!!

 

[Echo_419]

Waste of time and money, another very expensive political deal like the C17, but with far less advantages for India. As excellent Japan is on the industrial / technical level, their support to us is always limited by their laws and the restrictions the US will give them. In a defence related sense, they are hardly a help either, since their forces are far too small to take on China alone, so they can't create a 2nd front in case we need support against China.
Even the aircraft is hardly useful, since it's operational use is too limited in the SAR role only and no private company will be interested in producing parts of an aircraft, that isn't selling on the export market anyway. Most countries that have a need of such a specific aircraft, opt for far cheaper solutions and even they are very small in numbers. So the benefit from a possible export potential is more than low, let alone the fact that even we need a very small number of these aircrafts.

Can't we request the production of most critical parts of the aircraft,like engine components & other important stuff

 

[greatone]

Even the aircraft is hardly useful, since it's operational use is too limited in the SAR role only and no private company will be interested in producing parts of an aircraft, that isn't selling on the export market anyway. Most countries that have a need of such a specific aircraft, opt for far cheaper solutions and even they are very small in numbers. So the benefit from a possible export potential is more than low, let alone the fact that even we need a very small number of these aircrafts.

This statement is patently wrong.

The US 2 has myriad of other uses other than SAR.

To name a few- it can be used to ferry ammunition, replacements for the deceased sailors and repair equipment for the ships at sea in times of war.This will eliminate the need for ship to go back to port for repairs, resupply of ammo and such.

It can also be used to drop naval commandos to a few km away enemy island outposts.(Think Coco, Maldives, Diego Garcia or even Indonesia)

Imaginative commanders can think of many other uses for this plane.

Not that I am defending the purchase, since I am not privy to what else Japan is providing to sweeten the deal- either tech or investment would make it worthwhile.

 

[sancho]

Can't we request the production of most critical parts of the aircraft,like engine components & other important stuff

No, since the engines are not Japanese, but from Rolls-Royce and there are not that many highly advanced parts either. But as said, even if, where is the point if? We hardly have a requirement of 10 to 15 aircrafts and at that unit cost, exports are more than unlikely.

This statement is patently wrong.

The US 2 has myriad of other uses other than SAR.

To name a few- it can be used to ferry ammunition, replacements for the deceased sailors and repair equipment for the ships at sea in times of war...

What you are describing is the normal transport role, that it can do with the capability to land on water, but that's it. It's neither something special, since all amphibious aircrafts can do it, nor is it very good in it. If long range transport would had an importance, we would had bought the BE 200, since it can carry more troops and cargo in a faster way + should be far more cost-effective. The problem with the idea of re-supply a CBG with such an aircraft however is, that the payload these aircrafts can carry, is far too low to be useful and that the vessels that would take over the cargo, would need to stop, which makes the vessel and the aircraft vulnerable for enemy attacks. So it is possible in theory, practically however highly unlikely.

Moreover, the roles I meant are different and gets evident when you compare it with other MPAs, like the C295 or Sea Herc. They can't land at sea, but can do the SAR role too. They also can transport passengers or cargo from shore bases to bases on Islands, but again would need propper airstrips of course. So both do the say role but differently. What makes the C295 and Sea Herc really multi role however, is their capability to be used in anti submarine or anti ship roles, since both can detect and destroy enemy targets with specific sensors, avionics and weapons. The US 2 on the other side, can't be used with weapons, nor in such roles, to benefit the IN in larger area search and destroy role. It is limited to SAR in the greater sense and to operations around Islands as the advantage of it's amphibious capability.

When you actually take the roles you mentioned, a V22 would be the far better choice than the US-2, without even much higher costs.
It can carry even more troops or passengers than the US-2 (24 vs 20), can land without the need of dedicated landing strips or limitations of sea states. The rear ramp makes it easier and simpler to carry even larger payloads, it can land on any vessel of the CBG, without the need to stop them, it can be even mounted with rear and belly guns or converted into tanker, ASW or even AEW roles.
Even in the basic SAR, it offers the same speed and could extract people in the water by hovering, without the need to land. The only disadvantage it has, is the range, which then again could be extended by it's mid air refuelling capability, another advantage the US-2 doesn't have.

So what are we actually getting for $1.6 billions? An aircraft that can be used in SAR primarily and utility transport around our Islands in secondary roles, not more!

 

[Echo_419]

No, since the engines are not Japanese, but from Rolls-Royce and there are not that many highly advanced parts either. But as said, even if, where is the point if? We hardly have a requirement of 10 to 15 aircrafts and at that unit cost, exports are more than unlikely.



What you are describing is the normal transport role, that it can do with the capability to land on water, but that's it. It's neither something special, since all amphibious aircrafts can do it, nor is it very good in it. If long range transport would had an importance, we would had bought the BE 200, since it can carry more troops and cargo in a faster way + should be far more cost-effective. The problem with the idea of re-supply a CBG with such an aircraft however is, that the payload these aircrafts can carry, is far too low to be useful and that the vessels that would take over the cargo, would need to stop, which makes the vessel and the aircraft vulnerable for enemy attacks. So it is possible in theory, practically however highly unlikely.

Moreover, the roles I meant are different and gets evident when you compare it with other MPAs, like the C295 or Sea Herc. They can't land at sea, but can do the SAR role too. They also can transport passengers or cargo from shore bases to bases on Islands, but again would need propper airstrips of course. So both do the say role but differently. What makes the C295 and Sea Herc really multi role however, is their capability to be used in anti submarine or anti ship roles, since both can detect and destroy enemy targets with specific sensors, avionics and weapons. The US 2 on the other side, can't be used with weapons, nor in such roles, to benefit the IN in larger area search and destroy role. It is limited to SAR in the greater sense and to operations around Islands as the advantage of it's amphibious capability.

When you actually take the roles you mentioned, a V22 would be the far better choice than the US-2, without even much higher costs.
It can carry even more troops or passengers than the US-2 (24 vs 20), can land without the need of dedicated landing strips or limitations of sea states. The rear ramp makes it easier and simpler to carry even larger payloads, it can land on any vessel of the CBG, without the need to stop them, it can be even mounted with rear and belly guns or converted into tanker, ASW or even AEW roles.
Even in the basic SAR, it offers the same speed and could extract people in the water by hovering, without the need to land. The only disadvantage it has, is the range, which then again could be extended by it's mid air refuelling capability, another advantage the US-2 doesn't have.

So what are we actually getting for $1.6 billions? An aircraft that can be used in SAR primarily and utility transport around our Islands in secondary roles, not more!

Then why the hell are we even buying this thing,it's not like we are playing with money.There are many important projects which could use 1.6 billion

 

[greatone]

No, since the engines are not Japanese, but from Rolls-Royce and there are not that many highly advanced parts either. But as said, even if, where is the point if? We hardly have a requirement of 10 to 15 aircrafts and at that unit cost, exports are more than unlikely.



What you are describing is the normal transport role, that it can do with the capability to land on water, but that's it. It's neither something special, since all amphibious aircrafts can do it, nor is it very good in it. If long range transport would had an importance, we would had bought the BE 200, since it can carry more troops and cargo in a faster way + should be far more cost-effective. The problem with the idea of re-supply a CBG with such an aircraft however is, that the payload these aircrafts can carry, is far too low to be useful and that the vessels that would take over the cargo, would need to stop, which makes the vessel and the aircraft vulnerable for enemy attacks. So it is possible in theory, practically however highly unlikely.

Moreover, the roles I meant are different and gets evident when you compare it with other MPAs, like the C295 or Sea Herc. They can't land at sea, but can do the SAR role too. They also can transport passengers or cargo from shore bases to bases on Islands, but again would need propper airstrips of course. So both do the say role but differently. What makes the C295 and Sea Herc really multi role however, is their capability to be used in anti submarine or anti ship roles, since both can detect and destroy enemy targets with specific sensors, avionics and weapons. The US 2 on the other side, can't be used with weapons, nor in such roles, to benefit the IN in larger area search and destroy role. It is limited to SAR in the greater sense and to operations around Islands as the advantage of it's amphibious capability.

When you actually take the roles you mentioned, a V22 would be the far better choice than the US-2, without even much higher costs.
It can carry even more troops or passengers than the US-2 (24 vs 20), can land without the need of dedicated landing strips or limitations of sea states. The rear ramp makes it easier and simpler to carry even larger payloads, it can land on any vessel of the CBG, without the need to stop them, it can be even mounted with rear and belly guns or converted into tanker, ASW or even AEW roles.
Even in the basic SAR, it offers the same speed and could extract people in the water by hovering, without the need to land. The only disadvantage it has, is the range, which then again could be extended by it's mid air refuelling capability, another advantage the US-2 doesn't have.

So what are we actually getting for $1.6 billions? An aircraft that can be used in SAR primarily and utility transport around our Islands in secondary roles, not more!

Thats all fine and dandy but who are you debating with ?
I merely pointed out a fallacy in what you said. Calm down brah!

Then why the hell are we even buying this thing,it's not like we are playing with money.There are many important projects which could use 1.6 billion

Probably because this deal is one of the strings attached that comes with Japanese investment in India.

 

[Echo_419]

Thats all fine and dandy but who are you debating with ?
I merely pointed out a fallacy in what you said. Calm down brah!



Probably because this deal is one of the strings attached that comes with Japanese investment in India.

& i thought us Baniyas were cunning,koi nahi they don't know the hindu baniya strength yet

 

[sancho]

Then why the hell are we even buying this thing,it's not like we are playing with money.There are many important projects which could use 1.6 billion

As I said, it's mainly a political deal, to strengthen the ties to Japan, maybe with long term industrial benefits in mind, who knows what is agreed on at the back channels.

Thats all fine and dandy but who are you debating with ?

I just show the limitations of use of this aircraft and that it's far too costly.

 

[Indischer]

Why exactly does India need these aircraft anyway? It's not like we've filled up our deficit in squadrons of fighter aircraft, bought off those 126 MMRCA aircraft and replaced our old HS-748s and AN-32s.

Japan, being a Nation of more than 6800 islands, does not seem to need any more than 5 of these aircraft. That should tell us about the futility of their purported utility.

 

[Echo_419]

As I said, it's mainly a political deal, to strengthen the ties to Japan, maybe with long term industrial benefits in mind, who knows what is agreed on at the back channels.



I just show the limitations of use of this aircraft and that it's far too costly.

The japanese will know,why we are called baniyas,when we extract sweet Industrial Deals from them

 

[Sahasranama]

It is quite expensive and the maintenance cost and issues are expected to be horrendous considering its operational environment. But it does offer a certain unique flexibility in operations, surveillance, logistics and search & rescue.

 

[Indischer]

The japanese will know,why we are called baniyas,when we extract sweet Industrial Deals from them

Our baniya mentality is restricted to extracting every paise out of our fellow Indians, not outsiders. On most of these foreign deals, we've meekly surrendered to the terms even after protracted negotiations. Even the vodka-splurging Russians tricked us baniyas into shelling more than thrice the originally agreed amount in case of INS Vikramaditya.

Time to accept that we're penny wise pound foolish.