Japan is very angry! China Indonesia high speed railway is about to be completed, why not India?

[Indos]

lmao, no. Indonesian railway network, the rolling stock it uses & it's railway- related manufacturing capabilities are literally midgets in comparison with the same in India.

India's largest metro network is 348 km long. There is simply no comparison with any Indonesian system. And we have operational metros in 15 cities.

As far as manufacturing is concerned Indian Railway owned manufacturing facilities alone can manufacture over 7000 coaches & 800 locomotives an year.

There are 5 plants producing metro rolling stock alone & one Alstom plant producing 12,000 hp electric locomotive. Even more are being built.

I have seen Indonesian manufacturing of the same too, but the scale is incomparable.

Indian will likely have more than 100 billion USD trade deficit this year while Indonesia will likely have more than 50 billion USD trade surplus this year, this show manufacturing capability as well

Our train operator doesnt have large manufacturing capability since they are focusing on being the operator, we have another SOE who handle the manufacturing.

Talking about train system, even during big migration of people like Idul Fitri, we dont see what happen in India in our train system like what Nufix posted

During Idul Fitri

Tiket Kereta Mudik Lebaran Sudah Terjual 1,6 juta Lembar, Masih Tersisa 37 Persen | KERETA

PT Kereta Api Indonesia terus mengingatkan kembali kepada seluruh pelanggan agar mematuhi syarat-syarat naik kereta api di masa pandemi Covid-19.

kereta.republika.co.id

 

[beijingwalker]

You get what you pay for, you won’t get Train-18 for 50 cents would you?
I don’t care about what you post wumao, your existence here is only for trolling and searching the internet all day for troll content.

Beejing Wokker literally everyday on your whatever chinese ripoff of google: ”saar saar pleej gib me shit post on India pleej pleej”

Haha, you get what you pay for, of course, Indians get what they can afford. but why are you lying to say the most trains in India are air conditioned? does it feel good to be a habitual liar?

 

[Indos]

Indonesia has other transport means, we dont just rely on train system


Huge traffic jams as Indonesia's Eid al-Fitr holiday exodus starts

JAKARTA, April 29 (Reuters) - Tens of millions of Indonesian Muslims are expected to travel back to their hometowns to celebrate Eid al-Fitr in coming days, with traffic jams of up to 10 km (6 miles) already starting to form on some routes out of the capital Jakarta.

Huge traffic jams as Indonesia's Eid al-Fitr holiday exodus starts

Tens of millions of Indonesian Muslims are expected to travel back to their hometowns to celebrate Eid al-Fitr in coming days, with traffic jams of up to 10 km (6 miles) already starting to form on some routes out of the capital Jakarta.

www.reuters.com

One Way di Jalan Tol Menuju Jawa Tengah Diperpanjang

Perpanjangan dilakukan dari Km 70 GT Cikampek Utama Jalan Tol Jakarta-Cikampek hingga Km 442 Simpang Susun Bawen Jalan Tol Semarang-Solo.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

 

[Indos]

You get what you pay for, you won’t get Train-18 for 50 cents would you?

What kind of answer is this ? It means India train system standard is uneven when the large majority of the system probably are using the trains like what Beijing Walker has posted.

 

[nufix]

India has well over 86% electrification right now, so any point about rooftop riding nonsense is moot.

And yes, data matters much more than your 'perceptions'. India is well ahead in scale & capabilities.

Indonesia basically runs smaller trains which carry 400 million passengers annually, whereas IR carries 8 billion passengers. Comparisons about freight would be even more disadvantageous to your country, so let's leave that for now.

It is not even a perception when millions of Indians ride trains like that lol. If your stats turned you on, hey that's your thing, but that does not change the fact that Indians still ride trains like it is 1900s. For many people, that is a wake up call enough. But it seems that Indians are quick to be satisfied with numbers, people be damned.

 

[Black Tornado]

Haha, you get what you pay for, of course, Indians get what they can afford. but why are you lying to say the most trains in India are air conditioned? does it feel good to be a habitual liar?

So what evidence do you have that none are airconditioned? Not all are airconditioned for having low fares for low income groups.

What kind of answer is this ? It means India train system standard is uneven when the large majority of the system probably are using the trains like what Beijing Walker has posted.

Those are old sets that are meant to be phased out in next few years, Vande Bharat trains will be running on our tracks after replacing them. Vast majority

Our train operator doesnt have large manufacturing capability since they are focusing on being the operator, we have another SOE who handle the manufacturing.

Which has a revenue of only $1.2 billion compared to $25 billion of India & isn't even comparable to 1970s Indian rolling stock manufacturing units in capabilities .

Indian Railway owned production units can replace your entire fleet of locomotives/ coaches many times over, in an year.

Also, India can design & manufacture all the subsystems- Engines, traction alternators, traction transformers, traction motors, forged wheels & axles etc-much unlike Indonesia.

Indian will likely have more than 100 billion USD trade deficit this year while Indonesia will likely have more than 50 billion USD trade surplus this year, this show manufacturing capability as well

Your major exports are commodities like coal & palm oil and not manufactured products. I mean look at those automotive/ industrial product exports & compare that with India.


https://oec.world/en/profile/country/idn?yearlyTradeFlowSelector=flow0


Despite what many "cheerleaders' here say, industrial capabilities of Indonesia & India are not comparable. Indonesia is only building capabilities we had three decades ago.

Talking about train system, even during big migration of people like Idul Fitri, we dont see what happen in India in our train system like what Nufix posted

Because your railway handles only 400 million passengers every year compared to 8 billion passengers a year, India’s population is 5 times of Indonesia so in India’s respect its like Indian Railways handling 5x400 mn = 2 billion passengers a year. With respect to population Indian Railways handles 4 times more passengers as a percentage of population of both countries. Obviously Indian trains will have more crowd than your low capacity railway system.

It is not even a perception when millions of Indians ride trains like that lol. If your stats turned you on, hey that's your thing, but that does not change the fact that Indians still ride trains like it is 1900s. For many people, that is a wake up call enough. But it seems that Indians are quick to be satisfied with numbers, people be damned.

The thing is that as Indian railways adds more capacity, then such incidents will drop, what will remain a fact is that your infrastructure is a joke in front of India as visible in infra and logisitcs performance index of world bank which is why you’re obsessed about the way some Indians ride trains .

India is investing ₹142 trillion on building infrastructure under National Infrastructure Pipeline which as per current exchange rate is more than $1.7 trillion more than your GDP.

 

[beijingwalker]

So what evidence do you have that none are airconditioned? Not all are airconditioned for having low fares for low income groups.

I never said none, I just point out they you claim almost all Indian trains are air conditioned is a total lie.

 

[nufix]

So what evidence do you have that none are airconditioned? Not all are airconditioned for having low fares for low income groups.

Those are old sets that are meant to be phased out in next few years, Vande Bharat trains will be running on our tracks after replacing them. Vast majority

Which has a revenue of only $1.2 billion compared to $25 billion of India & isn't even comparable to 1970s Indian rolling stock manufacturing units in capabilities .

Indian Railway owned production units can replace your entire fleet of locomotives/ coaches many times over, in an year.

Also, India can design & manufacture all the subsystems- Engines, traction alternators, traction transformers, traction motors, forged wheels & axles etc-much unlike Indonesia.
View attachment 892446View attachment 892447

Your major exports are commodities like coal & palm oil and not manufactured products. I mean look at those automotive/ industrial product exports & compare that with India.


https://oec.world/en/profile/country/idn?yearlyTradeFlowSelector=flow0


Despite what many "cheerleaders' here say, industrial capabilities of Indonesia & India are not comparable. Indonesia is only building capabilities we had three decades ago.
View attachment 892441
View attachment 892442

Because your railway handles only 400 million passengers every year compared to 8 billion passengers a year, India’s population is 5 times of Indonesia so in India’s respect its like Indian Railways handling 5x400 mn = 2 billion passengers a year. With respect to population Indian Railways handles 4 times more passengers as a percentage of population of both countries. Obviously Indian trains will have more crowd than your low capacity railway system.

The thing is that as Indian railways adds more capacity, then such incidents will drop, what will remain a fact is that your infrastructure is a joke in front of India as visible in infra and logisitcs performance index of world bank which is why you’re obsessed about the way some Indians ride trains .

India is investing ₹142 trillion on building infrastructure under National Infrastructure Pipeline which as per current exchange rate is more than $1.7 trillion more than your GDP.
View attachment 892456

Measuring Industrial performance based on export only? Lol.

Indian manufacturing export per capita is 2.5 times smaller than Indonesia
Indian manufacturing value added per capita is 2.4 times smaller than Indonesia
Indian value added share to GDP is only 16.6% while Indonesia is 20%

CIP | UNIDO Statistics Portal

stat.unido.org

India looks good due its summed volume, but a closer look on its volume relative to its size quickly shows how India's summed volume means jackshit relative to its population. To be at par with Indonesia's performance, Indian manufacturing should work 2.5 times harder lol.

And cmon, India and Indonesia is not even that far in LPI. But the way people ride, is indeed significantly different haha.

 

[Indos]

The next propulsion system is battery, enough said.

 

[nufix]

You are the same person who said statistics or data doesn't matter, so there is little point debating with you.

The point is there is simply no comparison between Indian and Indonesian railways as far as data is considered.



An electrified railway line is far more efficient than battery locomotives.

And no, it takes more than nickel processing to establish an EV ecosystem.

Stats dont matter if the reality doesnt reflect that. Read again what I have written. In this case, this is reflected in the competitiveness level of each country‘s economy. India is in 68th position while Indonesia is in 50th. That is quite a significance distance between the two countries.

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_TheGlobalCompetitivenessReport2019.pdf

And value addition as well as per capita index is relevant when talking about manufacturing capabilities. This shows that Indonesia despite its smaller population than India is 2.5 times more productive when it comes to exporting manufactured goods. This also shows that while Indonesia is a major raw material exporter, its manufacturing sector value addition contributes more to its GDP than Indian manufacturing to its GDP. Remember, India is not a major raw material exporting country so we should actually expect that Indian manufacturing sector to take the lead.

 

[nahtanbob]

Everyone knows HSR as per metro will loss monies, both in capex and opex. Mahathir pretends he dono.

The massive gain of having HSR and metro will outweights all losses by at least 10x. The land appreciation around metro is on factor of 10x or 50x in poor countries and government can make a profit -- if land is not privatized.

There are far more benefit.

isn't the land appreciation based on economic activity ?

 

[Dungeness]

isn't the land appreciation based on economic activity ?

and economic activities are based on infrastructure.

 

[nahtanbob]

Indonesia regular train is as good as your MRT line, basically it is already serving many people in Jakarta, Bogor, Depok, and other cities

Intercity train

How is the Economy Train in Indonesia for 4$ (Jakarta to Yogyakarta in 8 Hours!)​

And we have longest BRT system in the world

Indonesia is about to commence Greater Jakarta LRT system where the builder, electronics, and the train and coaches are made by Indonesia SOE, first phase is 42 kilometer

View attachment 891362

Jabodebek LRT - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jakarta Airport train system is also made by our SOE, the builder, electronics, and the train and coach

Why are you comparing Indonesia with India in railway systems ? Do your railway tracks connect Java with Sumatra ? Am I missing something here ? @Indos

and economic activities are based on infrastructure.

some economic activity can survive without infrastructure on a long term basis. infrastructure has to be supported by economic activity long term

 

[Han Patriot]

I never knew that reality was "measured" by cherry- picked videos & anecdotes. I guess that's the Indonesian school of thought.



The lead, at present is taken up by services including IT & Engineering services. Have a look.



Nope, it's not. I can show countries with higher MVA per capita than China, the same place where you import your HSR trainsets from. Does that mean that their manufacturing capabilities are ahead of China?



Global Competitiveness score is a composite indexes which takes into account multiple factors from institutions to labour market & there are field in which I admit India is lagging such as healthcare.

However let me look at two fields which has a lot to do with manufacturing.

Transport Infrastructure

India Rank 28
Indonesia Rank 55

Research & Development

India Rank 26
Indonesia Rank 85

I really want to congratulate you for overtaking India in manufacturing sophistication while having such bad infrastructure & such low R&D output, lol.

Wtf are you comparing with Indonesia. Are they a Supapowa? The moment you compare with China, you pee in your pants. Lol

Now i have been to both Indonesia and India, nothing compares to the poverty and filth I see in India. I haven't been to Africa, so i am not sure if its worse.

 

[Indos]

An electrified railway line is far more efficient than battery locomotives.

And no, it takes more than nickel processing to establish an EV ecosystem.

The electric railway line maybe more efficient, but the investment will be quite high with the transmission system required to build this. And yes, Indonesia electrified railway line is only contained on city like Jakarta, Yogyakarta, and soon some cities in Sulawesi island, this is why battery powered train maybe useful for Indonesia to reduce investment cost while helping the system get greener

PT INKA has developed the battery powered tram

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Talking about EV ecosystem, Indonesia plan is to do it end to end, from mining into making EV battery component, EV Battery, and also electric vehicles

This is why we make IBC/Indonesia Battery Corporation (consist of stakes from 4 SOE, Pertamina (energy), PLN (electricity), Inalum (aluminium), and Antam (mining) ). The company has enough financial capability to do it as Pertamina and PLN for example are two largest company in Indonesia with Pertamina revenue alone in Semester 1 2022 is around 40 billion USD.

IBC will make join venture with Korean consortium lead by LG Chem to do end to end in EV battery value chain with 8.9 billion USD investment.

They have started made Battery pack factory in Karawang, West Java

This is the location for some EV battery components manufacturing in Central Java, new industrial park in Batang (which is also owned by SOE)

IBC will make join venture with Chinese company, CTAL, doing the same with total investment 5.6 billion USD

Foxcon has made join venture with national company, Indika Energy, in doing the same, but currently they start small with much smaller investment compared to IBC cooperation with Korean and Chinese companies

This has been made in Indonesia for example, some SOE has also already made EV car like Pindad and Len. PT LEN Industry also has made several components for EV outside battery.

For motor cycle Indonesia national companies have made 1 million EV motor bike already and in 2024 the plan is to make it 2 million EV bike production per year

These are example of autopart manufacturing national companies