Japan, India ink rare-earth accord

[Rajputana]

This is how you sound. The earth is flat unfortunately everyone thinks it is round. There is no supporting data, evidence , hell even a remote sense of knowledge on the subject matter. rather- "Hey , he right because I think he is right in my gut and therefore he is right"

Whats with the insolence dude.

It is logical business sense to manufacture value-added products than exporting raw resources, especially the rare ones.

What part of that do you want to be supported by data?

 

[JayAtl]

I meant that had we been using rare earths it would have been prudent for us to stockpile some as well. Considering rare earths is strategic for Japan, it doesnt take a 'gut feel' to know the obvious that after the shocks China gave Japan recently, they would start a stockpiling mechanism to tide over short periods of no supply.

how do you know India is not taken it's needs into account. Where and what is the basis of your agreement with him that India should not export rare earth? Then to double down with Japan is stockpiling. who cares what the customer does with it. India exports what it deems fit to export and the quantity of such too.

This like someone saying to you don't allow sale of brahmos to take place, keep stock piling it for India because I think it is every important for India ... just stupid stuff like that which has no basis of any evidence that such an action is needed.

 

[INDIC]

Beware of selling rare earth to Japan. Japan itself already have a large stockpile of rare earth. But keep buying from China and now from India. Not to use but to keep for the future.
India would be wise not to sell to Japan. Japan should use its own stockpile first.

Its not a concern for us if they are accumulating it or using it.

 

[JayAtl]

Whats with the insolence dude.

It is logical business sense to manufacture value-added products than exporting raw resources, especially the rare ones.

What part of that do you want to be supported by data?

See Highlighted. Really- then the Chinese are idiots for holding 90% of the market. They were just idiots to sell this and make such heavy investments in harvesting it. you can only manufacture what you can manufacture and all of this is taken into account by the Indian govt. where the hell are you guys basing your doubt about them not doing so?

Logical business sense ...lol . do you even understand what you wrote. it is also a logical business sense to have a business sense before typing your thoughts out.

 

[Rajputana]

See Highlighted. Really- then the Chinese are idiots for holding 90% of the market. They were just idiots to sell this and make such heavy investments in harvesting it. you can only manufacture what you can manufacture and all of this is taken into account by the Indian govt. where the hell are you guys basing your doubt about them not doing so?

Logical business sense ...lol . do you even understand what you wrote. it is also a logical business sense to have a business sense before typing your thoughts out.

Do you know why the Chinese clamped down on RE exports recently?

Do you know why the US mines got closed when China Drove down the prices of RE initially?

What heavy investments are you talking about, do you know when Chinese realized that Celium Oxide was selling for less than pork pound for pound they clamped down?

Essentially Chinese accepted acting as idiots and went about correcting that, Do you know the price for Celium after they clamped down went up 30 times.

Or maybe you know why China initially even started to export RE's, try to read up on that and maybe you will get some 'sense' I mentioned and apparently it was way too much for you.

I admire your trust on the Indian government's capability, but I do not shut off my intelligence and accept everything they say like a sheep.

 

[ahfatzia]

Unlike coal and other mining, to dig for rare earth elements you need a large open field and plenty of water and the processed water have to go some where......you wonder why counties like the US don't like to dig for their own.

 

[Tshering22]

This is a good thing; I really hope that they do something about not damaging the environment too much though.

 

[JayAtl]

Do you know why the Chinese clamped down on RE exports recently?

Do you know why the US mines got closed when China Drove down the prices of RE initially?

What heavy investments are you talking about, do you know when Chinese realized that Celium Oxide was selling for less than pork pound for pound they clamped down?

Essentially Chinese accepted acting as idiots and went about correcting that, Do you know the price for Celium after they clamped down went up 30 times.

Or maybe you know why China initially even started to export RE's, try to read up on that and maybe you will get some 'sense' I mentioned and apparently it was way too much for you.

I admire your trust on the Indian government's capability, but I do not shut off my intelligence and accept everything they say like a sheep.

dude, I said that they clamped down on exports to force the prices to go up. what part of that was not holding the world hostage? and what part of that has anything to do with any proof that India exporting more than they need to? where is the beef in the claim that India is making a bad call on this? The world is ticked off at the illegal price control of the Chinese and would come to India as much as India will export those tonnage to them. The Chinese are playing you for fool to make sure they continue to own the market and price control and you are falling for it.

here are the assumptions you made:

- India has only X amount of rare earth ( what is that X amount?)
- India is exporting more than to cover their needs
- Chinese said so so that maybe right

where are these assumptions coming from? because Chinese posters on PDF said it? you are going to demand / call it foul on India because they said so on PDF?

what if India has 1 00 billion tonnes of rare earth and only exports 10 billion ( hypothetical). Where is your supporting data that India is making a mistake and should stockpile more than 90 billion tonnes?

 

[Rajputana]

dude, I said that they clamped down on exports to force the prices to go up. what part of that was not holding the world hostage? and what part of that has anything to do with any proof that India exporting more than they need to? where is the beef in the claim that India is making a bad call on this? The world is ticked off at the illegal price control of the Chinese and would come to India as much as India will export those tonnage to them. The Chinese are playing you for fool to make sure they continue to own the market and price control and you are falling for it.

Chinese controlled 95% of the market share but not 95% of resources, due to the fact they were selling it dirt cheap.

I f push comes to shove other sources can be utilized its not that big a deal, US is already reopening its closed down mines and so is australia, the shortage is going to be short lived.

Honestly what is wrong with demanding fair price for the resource they own?

World can be ticked off for all I care, why should that stop Indian govt from doing whats right for India.

Honestly, world should have been more concerned when China drove the prices down, that was predatory pricing and forced other mines to close down. But nobody gave a **** cause they were getting the ore for cheap.

Again, just plain logical business sense buddy.

- here are the assumptions you made:

India has only X amount of rare earth ( what is that X amount?)

Please point out where that assumption you assume I made.


- India is exporting more than to cover their needs

India does not need it because it lags in semi-conductor expertise, my contention was that India should develop its own value-added manufacturing to create more jobs/business/profits rather than just ship out raw material. What do we owe Japan to let them make profits we can make for ourselves?

- Chinese said so so that maybe right

I don't know what your beef with Chinese is, but they are right on this part, why not demand more prices if they can, its business afterall.

where are these assumptions coming from? because Chinese posters on PDF said it? you are going to demand / call it foul on India because they said so on PDF?

I did not reference any Chinese poster, again whats your beef with Chinese, if I say the same as they do thats on the merit of the argument and not some China worship as you wrongly assume.

 

[JayAtl]

Chinese controlled 95% of the market share but not 95% of resources, due to the fact they were selling it dirt cheap.

I f push comes to shove other sources can be utilized its not that big a deal, US is already reopening its closed down mines and so is australia, the shortage is going to be short lived.

Honestly what is wrong with demanding fair price for the resource they own?

World can be ticked off for all I care, why should that stop Indian govt from doing whats right for India.

Honestly, world should have been more concerned when China drove the prices down, that was predatory pricing and forced other mines to close down. But nobody gave a **** cause they were getting the ore for cheap.

Again, just plain logical business sense buddy.

- here are the assumptions you made:

India has only X amount of rare earth ( what is that X amount?)

Please point out where that assumption you assume I made.


- India is exporting more than to cover their needs

India does not need it because it lags in semi-conductor expertise, my contention was that India should develop its own value-added manufacturing to create more jobs/business/profits rather than just ship out raw material. What do we owe Japan to let them make profits we can make for ourselves?

- Chinese said so so that maybe right

I don't know what your beef with Chinese is, but they are right on this part, why not demand more prices if they can, its business afterall.

where are these assumptions coming from? because Chinese posters on PDF said it? you are going to demand / call it foul on India because they said so on PDF?

I did not reference any Chinese poster, again whats your beef with Chinese, if I say the same as they do thats on the merit of the argument and not some China worship as you wrongly assume.

So let me get this, your beef is what? because the goal post keeps shifting. what is your beef with this deal announced in the article? and what evidence you have to back your beef?

 

[Rajputana]

So let me get this, your beef is what? because the goal post keeps shifting. what is your beef with this deal announced in the article? and what evidence you have to back your beef?

You set up the goal post by asking for the data on limiting rare earths, and then later claiming Chinese were holding world hostage.

I actually put up some data detailing how that argument was fallacious and Chinese can't really hold hostage except for short term and what they did was good economic move.

The only point I contended to the jubilation about the original article was that its better India move upwards in the value chain rather than fritter away limited resources. Regarding evidence for that, you can google up for Indias limited semi-conductor manufacturing capability.

Further if you contend that Indian Govt took all factors into consideration while giving approval. Now I am not outright critical of that, but maybe you need to update yourself more about recent occurrences in India (Hint: coal) to understand what you missed, combine that with the Chinese experience with RE's and maybe, maybe you will get the picture.

Till then, try holding off on your pretensions oh high knowledge while dismissing others as simpletons.

Capiche?

 

[JayAtl]

You set up the goal post by asking for the data on limiting rare earths, and then later claiming Chinese were holding world hostage.

I actually put up some data detailing how that argument was fallacious and Chinese can't really hold hostage except for short term and what they did was good economic move.

The only point I contended to the jubilation about the original article was that its better India move upwards in the value chain rather than fritter away limited resources. Regarding evidence for that, you can google up for Indias limited semi-conductor manufacturing capability.

Further if you contend that Indian Govt took all factors into consideration while giving approval. Now I am not outright critical of that, but maybe you need to update yourself more about recent occurrences in India (Hint: coal) to understand what you missed, combine that with the Chinese experience with RE's and maybe, maybe you will get the picture.

Till then, try holding off on your pretensions oh high knowledge while dismissing others as simpletons.

Capiche?

that makes absolutely no sense what so ever. The original contention you came at me was my claim and that was my contention here all the through page 1- that exporting the rare earth and the choice to do so , had absolutely no reason to be held off as the Chinese posters claimed here. do you even know what you came at me for? ... at no point did I ever call for limiting the rare earth exports from India. And the only time I cited the price fixing ( illegal - yes because they are a WTO member and that's not allowed), was to give a reason as why Japan, along with others, may be drawn to India soon.

This is what you put as your very first post. what data other than gibberish exists in it?

Whats with the insolence dude.

It is logical business sense to manufacture value-added products than exporting raw resources, especially the rare ones.

What part of that do you want to be supported by data?

 

[Rajputana]

that makes absolutely no sense what so ever. The original contention you came at me was my claim and that was my contention here all the through page 1- that exporting the rare earth and the choice to do so , had absolutely no reason to be held off as the Chinese posters claimed here. do you even know what you came at me for? ... at no point did I ever call for limiting the rare earth exports from India. And the only time I cited the price fixing ( illegal - yes because they are a WTO member and that's not allowed), was to give a reason as why Japan, along with others, may be drawn to India soon.

I know it doesnt for you, infact you never put in a coherent argument!!!

Please quit your accusation of me supporting Chinese posters, I already clarified I cited none of them, if you still persist in me defending the chinese(weird?), do cite any specific instance.

This is what you put as your very first post. what data other than gibberish exists in it?

Please do look at the other posts, you will find some relevant data, Thanks.

And the only time I cited the price fixing ( illegal - yes because they are a WTO member and that's not allowed),

Price fixing? Please do take the trouble to cite the relevant WTO principle being breached.

What was the price China fixed for WTO illegality? What is the law that one can breach by defying WTO?

 

[Anonymous user]

I know it doesnt for you, infact you never put in a coherent argument!!!

Please quit your accusation of me supporting Chinese posters, I already clarified I cited none of them, if you still persist in me defending the chinese(weird?), do cite any specific instance.

Please do look at the other posts, you will find some relevant data, Thanks.

Price fixing? Please do take the trouble to cite the relevant WTO principle being breached.

What was the price China fixed for WTO illegality? What is the law that one can breach by defying WTO?

I laugh at Jayatl talking volumes about stuff he has no inkling about, I also applaud you for keeping your cool.

China strategic move to consolidate the market happened decades ago once the leaders realize that many high tech equipment revolved around Rare Earth. The move to stranglehold the industry was mainly to encourage foreign investment into China and in the process do tech transfer to the local firms. (Hence REE prices are cheaper in China than export prices). In the recent years this strategic move has changed seeing China tech industry has matured and no longer requires this strategic hold, in fact they are encouraging other countries to step up to the REE plate

Rare Earth is really not rare at all, the only difference is how concentrated is the rare earth in the soil. China just so happens to have very concentrated levels making it more feasible to extract. Every one ton of sand might yield the same as 5 tons in another location, the waste from that is radioactive hence most countries prefer not to have the refineries of Rare Earth in their country. That said the only exception is Heavy Rare Earth that really is rare.

Jayatl is so China obsesses he can't even see beyond whats on the headline, argument with him is a waste of time. Once he starts looking like a fool he run away from the thread. Waste of time

 

[JayAtl]

I know it doesnt for you, infact you never put in a coherent argument!!!

Please quit your accusation of me supporting Chinese posters, I already clarified I cited none of them, if you still persist in me defending the chinese(weird?), do cite any specific instance.





Please do look at the other posts, you will find some relevant data, Thanks.



Price fixing? Please do take the trouble to cite the relevant WTO principle being breached.

What was the price China fixed for WTO illegality? What is the law that one can breach by defying WTO?

At this point we have established a couple of things.

A. You started the post debating me as I showed. And it was pure nonsense apparently because you did not see what I was contenting i.e. the Chinese claim that India should not export to Japan. Now if you come arguing me, when that is what I was discussing- not sure how you thought I would not think you were debating my contention.

B. You veered off in your mind into other subjects, with no clarity, that had nothing to do with my points of contention and then accused that I was not following you.

C. You remarkably are very confident in debating me without having knowledge of the subject matter i.e. the NEW WTO challenge to my claim you made above. Making it far to easy for me to keep showing, that you keep talking, without research /knowing. See below to WTO claim :

Price fixing? Please do take the trouble to cite the relevant WTO principle being breached.

What was the price China fixed for WTO illegality? What is the law that one can breach by defying WTO?

U.S. to File WTO Complaint Over China Rare-Earth Export Caps - Bloomberg

US, EU and Japan take Chinese rare earth dispute to WTO

China Begins Stockpiling Rare Earths, Draws WTO Attention

FINALLY

WTO rules against China’s rare earths stockpiling

Class dismissed....