Japan Defence Forum

[Suika]

The foolish Japanese soldiers branded the hatred of Sino-Japanese relations so strong.

China has never been so bitter against Japan for thousands of years. Japanese cultural inheritance of China even tokyo is copied by the name of the song dynasty. The year before last, when Live in peace had weapons, it expanded like a neighbouring country. This is Japan in the eyes of the Chinese.


Who is managing, then? America?

Feelings are one thing. Feelings cannot be changed like policy or mechanics, so I never request a change on feelings. But relations between countries and the future are different. I think the CCP helps fuel hate towards the Japanese just like how I think the CCP helps motivate Chinese people to be aggressive in the South China Sea. So to some extent, even if I still disagree, I could sort of understand why some Chinese want to push a claim on the Senkaku islands because feelings about the past towards Japan is mixed in. And because of feelings, I never criticize a Chinese for calling the Japanese Japs. But I would still urge action that makes for a better future. Japan got nuked, for what that is worth.

But the South China Sea? No one in the South China Sea has done anything bad to China, no one in the SCS area used chemicals weapons against Chinese. And yet, China is aggressive down there too. So ultimately, I think it is the CCP's fault.

Well I merely replied to your statement about historical claim that what is the pass should leave it behind, so why Japan couldn't give up Kuril Islands as well, Japan can't not just memorized some part of their history and try to brush away some other, consistently you tell us to forget Shimonoseki Treaty then you should accept also what Soviet has done to Japan.

I said it already, because Russia and Japan have never concluded a peace treaty. It is not resolved. Technically speaking, just like how North Korea and South Korea are technically still at war, Japan and Russia are also technically still at war.

With the Senkaku islands, China recognized them as Japanese during the 1950s and 1960s, but then suddenly in the early 1970s, China asserted a claim. The war between China and Japan had concluded in 1945. It was finished. And after the war, they had not territorial dispute. There was no dispute. All done. But then later, over 20 years later, China created the territorial dispute.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

I said it already, because Russia and Japan have never concluded a peace treaty. It is not resolved. Technically speaking, just like how North Korea and South Korea are technically still at war, Japan and Russia are also technically still at war.

With the Senkaku islands, China recognized them as Japanese during the 1950s and 1960s, but then suddenly in the early 1970s, China asserted a claim. The war between China and Japan had concluded in 1945. It was finished. And after the war, they had not territorial dispute. There was no dispute. All done. But then later, over 20 years later, China created the territorial dispute.

According to Japan surrender condition in WW2 that all territories that Japan has conquered and annexed should return back to their rightful owner...so you tell me.

 

[Viet]

According to Japan surrender condition in WW2 that all territories that Japan has conquered and annexed should return back to their rightful owner...so you tell me.

Post the document, the instrument of surrender here!

Feelings are one thing. Feelings cannot be changed like policy or mechanics, so I never request a change on feelings. But relations between countries and the future are different. I think the CCP helps fuel hate towards the Japanese just like how I think the CCP helps motivate Chinese people to be aggressive in the South China Sea. So to some extent, even if I still disagree, I could sort of understand why some Chinese want to push a claim on the Senkaku islands because feelings about the past towards Japan is mixed in. And because of feelings, I never criticize a Chinese for calling the Japanese Japs. But I would still urge action that makes for a better future. Japan got nuked, for what that is worth.

But the South China Sea? No one in the South China Sea has done anything bad to China, no one in the SCS area used chemicals weapons against Chinese. And yet, China is aggressive down there too. So ultimately, I think it is the CCP's fault.



I said it already, because Russia and Japan have never concluded a peace treaty. It is not resolved. Technically speaking, just like how North Korea and South Korea are technically still at war, Japan and Russia are also technically still at war.

With the Senkaku islands, China recognized them as Japanese during the 1950s and 1960s, but then suddenly in the early 1970s, China asserted a claim. The war between China and Japan had concluded in 1945. It was finished. And after the war, they had not territorial dispute. There was no dispute. All done. But then later, over 20 years later, China created the territorial dispute.

The Chinese play history against Japan. I wonder why they don't play the same game to Russia.

 

[Suika]

According to Japan surrender condition in WW2 that all territories that Japan has conquered and annexed should return back to their rightful owner...so you tell me.

Well.. China never pushed a claim on it and even produced maps during the 1950s that indicated that the Senkaku islands were Japanese, not Chinese.

There is another territorial claim that Japan has. This one is with South Korea. It is over Takeshima or what the South Koreans call as Dokdo. When the South Koreans learned from about the results of the San Francisco Treaty and saw that Dokdo was going still remain as Japanese territory, the Koreans responded immediately, made their claim, and tried to occupy it.

Why did China wait over 20 years whereas the Koreans responded immediately? Maybe there were never really Chinese to begin with. But were just navigational points in the old days before China's period of humiliation and Japan annexed them under the new modes of territory recognition that came later.

The Chinese play history against Japan. I wonder why they don't play the same game to Russia.

Very much so.

Russia is holding onto what used to be Chinese in the outer Manchuria area and Vladivostok. Surely these ares have a much deeper history as being Chinese than the Senkaku island. So in this case, China is taken a practical spin, not using the history argument against Russia for strategic purposes despite Russia still holding onto a much larger piece of Chinese land where Chinese grew up, worked, had families, etc., and yet China making trouble over tiny islands that were never really used as Chinese territory at all, no one lived on them. Just navigation features.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Well.. China never pushed a claim on it and even produced maps during the 1950s that indicated that the Senkaku islands were Japanese, not Chinese.

There is another territorial claim that Japan has. This one is with South Korea. It is over Takeshima or what the South Koreans call as Dokdo. When the South Koreans learned from about the results of the San Francisco Treaty and saw that Dokdo was going still remain as Japanese territory, the Koreans responded immediately, made their claim, and tried to occupy it.

Why did China wait over 20 years whereas the Koreans responded immediately? Maybe there were never really Chinese to begin with. But were just navigational points in the old days before China's period of humiliation and Japan annexed them under the new modes of territory recognition that came later.

China just came out of civil war and enter Korea war, not a lot of nations recognized CCP until we formalized our relation with US in 1972, so China has no credibility to claim what so ever but that doesn't mean it's an end. When China and Japan reestablish the diplomatic relation both agreed to put aside of the island issue until Yoshihiko Noda decided to nationalized it.

Russia is holding onto what used to be Chinese in the outer Manchuria area and Vladivostok. Surely these ares have a much deeper history as being Chinese than the Senkaku island. So in this case, China is taken a practical spin, not using the history argument against Russia for strategic purposes despite Russia still holding onto a much larger piece of Chinese land where Chinese grew up, worked, had families, etc., and yet China making trouble over tiny islands that were never really used as Chinese territory at all, no one lived on them. Just navigation features.

You Japanese seems to know Chinese history pretty well , If Russia ever decide Kuril islands back to Japan, we will use the same opportunity to ask them to return Outer Manchuria...how about that?

 

[Suika]

China just came out of civil war and enter Korea war, not a lot of nations recognized CCP until we formalized our relation with US in 1972, so China has no credibility to claim what so ever but that doesn't mean it's an end. When China and Japan reestablish the diplomatic relation both agreed to put aside of the island issue until Yoshihiko Noda decided to nationalized it.

What about the Koreans themselves? I would say their situation were more severe than the Chinese. And the Korean War ended in 1954. Why not in 1955, 1956, 1957? 1960? The Koreans responded immediately. After the Korean War, 1954, it is still 18 years until 1972..

China suddenly comes out with the claim in 1972, leaving the Japanese no choice but to go with "at a later time" in order to establish diplomatic relations. Anyone can make a problem out of anything if they want a problem made.

You Japanese seems to know Chinese history pretty well , If Russia ever decide Kuril islands back to Japan, we will use the same opportunity to ask them to return Outer Manchuria...how about that?

Heh

Well I'm a white American. But I live in Japan now and been here for about 5 years, probably will be here for the rest of my life. So only half fake. Lets say that Japanese culture rubbed off onto to me fairly thoroughly though, for what that's worth. Also, the flags to left indicate it, the US flag was the place of growing up and the Japan flag is the place of primary residency. I didn't mean to present myself as an ethnic Japanese.

Russia won't give them back. Best Japan can do is use it as leverage in diplomacy and maybe gain soft power influence in there with economic activities. Vladivostok will remain Russian forever. And China will maintain the claim on the Senkaku islands.. forever.. because.. CCP.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

What about the Koreans themselves? I would say their situation were more severe than the Chinese. And the Korean War ended in 1954. Why not in 1955, 1956, 1957? 1960? The Koreans responded immediately. After the Korean War, 1954, it is still 18 years until 1972..

China suddenly comes out with the claim in 1972, leaving the Japanese no choice but to go with "at a later time" in order to establish diplomatic relations. Anyone can make a problem out of anything if they want a problem made.

Korean got US mighty protection remember that while China was at odd with US, US always play the favoritism game, it's useless to make any claim at that time. And If Japan think it's the legitimate owner why they just didn't flatly reject China claim in 1972?. ..we can go back and fore with claim and counter-claim.

Heh

Well I'm a white American. But I live in Japan now and been here for about 5 years, probably will be here for the rest of my life. So only half fake. Lets say that Japanese culture rubbed off onto to me fairly thoroughly though, for what that's worth. Also, the flags to left indicate it, the US flag was the place of growing up and the Japan flag is the place of primary residency. I didn't mean to present myself as an ethnic Japanese.

Russia won't give them back. Best Japan can do is use it as leverage in diplomacy and maybe gain soft power influence in there with economic activities. Vladivostok will remain Russian forever. And China will maintain the claim on the Senkaku islands.. forever.. because.. CCP.

And there we're, both and China are on the hopeless cause for Kuril Islands and Outer Manchuria, as for Diaoyu Islands, it shall remain to be seen.

 

[Suika]

Korean got US mighty protection remember that while China was at odd with US, US always play the favoritism game, it's useless to make any claim at that time. And If Japan think it's the legitimate owner why they just didn't flatly reject China claim in 1972?. ..we can go back and fore with claim and counter-claim.

I don't disagree that we can go back and forth, although I would maintain that the beef is on my side of the argument and we are just going back and fourth over tid bits. I would say that China had always maintained its claim on Taiwan after the Chinese Civil war, despite the US power. If China was to go and claim all of Taiwan, it should not be too hard to include the Senkaku islands together with the Taiwan claim. Furthermore, Japan got Taiwan in the Shimonoseki treaty. So if China was aware of Senkaku and Taiwan as a set, both lost because of that treaty, it only seems logical to include Senkaku along with the claim on Taiwan. But they didn't.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

I don't disagree that we can go back and forth, although I would maintain that the beef is on my side of the argument and we are just going back and fourth over tid bits. I would say that China had always maintained its claim on Taiwan after the Chinese Civil war, despite the US power. If China was to go and claim all of Taiwan, it should not be too hard to include the Senkaku islands together with the Taiwan claim. Furthermore, Japan got Taiwan in the Shimonoseki treaty. So if China was aware of Senkaku and Taiwan as a set, both lost because of that treaty, it only seems logical to include Senkaku along with the claim on Taiwan. But they didn't.

Chinese does thing gradually, we're not in the rush to get Diaoyu Islands and Taiwan simultaneously , we can take care one thing at the time when priority come.

 

[bobo6661]

Thank you for your detailed post. It gives me a better understanding behind your posts.

Waz can you clean this thread it becoming a troll thread ... Good someone started to update!

Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force's (JMSDF) latest Izumo-class helicopter carrier DDH-184 Kaga


On the naming of the JMSDF helicopter carrier "Kaga" -- Japan's largest warship -- the China Foreign Ministry Spokesperson as well as the Deputy Director of Foreign Ministry Information Department Hua Chunying said at a press conference today (March 23rd, 2017) that "The Battleship Kaga was sunk by the US forces in the World War Two, Japan must learn from the lessons of the past. We hope that the resurgence of Kaga is not the beginning of attempts to restore the Japanese militarism."

All started becose of this troll post ...

 

[Suika]

Chinese does thing gradually, we're not in the rush to get Diaoyu Islands and Taiwan simultaneously , we can take care one thing at the time when priority come.

How comforting......

 

[samsara]

If no China, Cambodia, Thailand, Thailand would have been annexed by Vietnam. Vietnam has been ahead for expansion.

I think you meant Laos! If there's no China, VIE may have swallowed all IndoChina! In particular no way for the Cambodia and Laos to fend off the lust of the stronger VIE for expansion!

Waz can you clean this thread it becoming a troll thread ... Good someone started to update!

All started becose of this troll post ...

TROLL??? You will have to look at those threads at the "Chinese Defence" column to identify such trolls before conveniently labeling so here!

 

[bobo6661]

TROLL??? You will have to look at those threads at the "Chinese Defence" column to identify such trolls before conveniently labeling so here!

This tread is about Japan miliary... Not about China political statements ... Make a new tread in China & Far East and Post there and dont trash here ...

Yes yes like i went and read a tread when half of China members and some other where claiming B-1 is a stealth aicraft or about plasma stealth ...

 

[CHINA83NEWS]

Yes, Imperial Japan used chemical and biological weapons against China. The two countries are currently working together to clean up the remnants.

---start---
BEIJING – China’s military said Tuesday that more than 2,500 abandoned Japanese wartime chemical weapons collected from northern China, including Beijing and the port city of Tianjin, have been destroyed in a four-year disposal process.

Japan and China have been working together on the biggest chemical weapon cleanup effort in history, a decades-long, diplomatically sensitive project that is seen in China as a reminder of the wartime atrocities it suffered during Japan’s 1937 invasion and subsequent occupation.

Under the terms of a 1997 treaty, Tokyo is responsible for cleaning up hundreds of thousands of chemical weapons left behind by its occupation troops at the end of World War II. China says thousands of Chinese have been killed or hurt since the end of the war in 1945 by accidents related to the buried weapons.

China’s Defense Ministry said Tuesday that the weapons’ disposal at a facility in the city of Shijiazhuang in Hebei province, neighboring Beijing, had finished in a “safe, orderly and smooth manner.” The weapons are generally burned in specially designed furnaces.

The remaining pieces of Japanese chemical weapons are difficult to find and destroy because they were scattered widely, the ministry said. It urged Japan to “increase manpower and resources” to finish the job.

China has repeatedly urged Japan to speed up the project, which was initially scheduled to be completed in 2007 but had hit delays.

China estimates that Japanese troops left behind more than 2 million chemical weapons, mostly in the northeastern region of Manchuria. The cleanup of the biggest cache — a site with nearly 700,000 chemical bombs at Haerbaling in Jilin province — is scheduled to be finished in 2022.

The Japanese government said in 2015 that it finished destroying another cache at a facility in the central Chinese city of Wuhan.
---end---
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...nese-chemical-weapons-destroyed/#.WNaCN2997cs

First of all thank you for your honesty. In China seems to Japan for the nanjing massacre are guarded will not know how serious problem how many chemical and biological weapons. In some of the cultivated land of farmers in northeast China accidentally dug bacteria will take the family life overnight. 12 years ago.

What about the Koreans themselves? I would say their situation were more severe than the Chinese. And the Korean War ended in 1954. Why not in 1955, 1956, 1957? 1960? The Koreans responded immediately. After the Korean War, 1954, it is still 18 years until 1972..

China suddenly comes out with the claim in 1972, leaving the Japanese no choice but to go with "at a later time" in order to establish diplomatic relations. Anyone can make a problem out of anything if they want a problem made.



Heh

Well I'm a white American. But I live in Japan now and been here for about 5 years, probably will be here for the rest of my life. So only half fake. Lets say that Japanese culture rubbed off onto to me fairly thoroughly though, for what that's worth. Also, the flags to left indicate it, the US flag was the place of growing up and the Japan flag is the place of primary residency. I didn't mean to present myself as an ethnic Japanese.

Russia won't give them back. Best Japan can do is use it as leverage in diplomacy and maybe gain soft power influence in there with economic activities. Vladivostok will remain Russian forever. And China will maintain the claim on the Senkaku islands.. forever.. because.. CCP.

Since 1945 about 35000 Japanese on the northeast China. Now they call themselves the han people around you, of course, is to know their identity. Chinese national feature is the tolerance not aggression. But just coming into the industrialization in China seems to be a war to China immediately near Japan is unable to understand it. The fetters of cultural history was beaten injured all over the body.

 

[Zarvan]

Japan Deploys Home-Made Kawasaki C-2 Military Transport Aircraft to Local Airbase

Kawasaki C-2 military transport aircraft
- A +
Japan's Air Self-Defense Force has deployed local-made Kawasaki C-2 military transport aircraft to the Miho airbase in the Tottori Prefecture, located in the Chūgoku region.

The Miho airbase has become the first place of deployment of these aircraft, the Kyodo news agency reported today.

Three Kawasaki C-2 jets were delivered to the airbase on Tuesday, while the solemn ceremony of the deployment took place earlier on Thursday.

The new military transport aircraft are expected to be fully checked by September and in December, the aircraft will start taking part in different operations. It is expected that 10 Kawasaki C-2 aircraft will be stationed at Japan's bases by 2020, according to the news agency.

Kawasaki C-2 is an advanced twin-turbofan engine military transport aircraft developed and manufactured by Kawasaki Heavy Industries Aerospace Company.

The 144-feet long aircraft with carrying capacity of over 36,000 tonnes was designed to transport troops and military hardware to distant islands. The aircraft is expected to replace C-1 and C-130 Hercules aircraft.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/18...nsport_Aircraft_to_Local_Airbase#.WN0QiTt95PY