Jandarma: Turkey's 'war machine' goes global

[xenon54 out]

This below is from @Neptunes post # 240 https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/coul...in-case-of-a-war.526917/page-16#post-10112576


It is worth mentioning that structurally and on practice, the Turkish Gendarmerie (JGK) is different than many gendarmerie forces in Europe which it was modeled after at late Ottoman period. Today this difference is still visible. At first, I must mention that (hence idk the case in Pakistan), security institutions in Turkey, excluding the armed forces, is highly centralized. Therefore JGK is the primary national law enforcement agency in the country's administrative regions outside the metropolitan areas (basically towns, villages and borderlines). What is not known by non-Turkish readers is that during the initial years of the Republic till late 1990s, JGK was the mother, teacher, doctor and everything of the villages and towns in Turkey through the initiative taken by the officers. When someone was sick at winter, at a mountainous village, with the request of local gendarmerie officer, JGK dispatches air evacuation for the sick civilian to a city hospital when the health sector was not developed; or when education on far villages was rough and female children were often not sent to school by their families one or two decades ago, the commanding officer of the local Gendarmerie post takes a platoon and a teacher then kicks in the house and makes sure that small children regardless of gender and ethnicity were provided their very own right of compulsory education as stated by the Constitution. The point is, apart from being a huge nightmare for PKK, Gendarmerie not only brought the reforms to the unreachable points of the country, it also maintained it till today and so on. Basically where there is Gendarmerie, there is the State.

Its functions are:
- Military Duties (Counter-terrorism; deployments in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Kosovo, Bosnia; and border security).
During the counter-terrorism missions the following units are employed: Gendarmerie Special Operations and Public Order Command (JÖAK), Gendarmerie Special Operations (JÖH), Gendarmerie Commando Battalions stationed at southeastern Turkey, Gendarmerie Public Order Corps headquartered in far eastern Turkey, Hakkari Gendarmerie Mountain and Commando Brigade, and the Provincial Gendarmerie Commando Regiments. These units, Land Forces Commando units and the National Police's own special operations unit PÖH all operate under the command and control of the Gendarmerie 23rd Border Division which oversees the counter-terrorism operations throughout southeastern Turkey and Northern Iraq.

- Law Enforcement Duties (in conjunction with its law and the Law on the Duties and Powers of the Turkish National Police)
- Other Duties (Security of courts and prisons)

Very well explained.

 

[Path-Finder]

Well, to begin with the country would have to be prepared to pay for this. For instance to copy the Turkish model we would need to raise a force as large as Pakistan Army - or nearly as large at about 450,000 men. And provide it with similar if not greater resources then PA. The force would have to report to the COAS. In effect we would have the army playing full time job in internal security which would be a good thing anyway.

But honestly I can't see Pakistan copying the Turkish Jandarma model 100%. The fact is the Turks have very nationalistic culture. To them the Turkish flag is almost like god is to Pakistanis. The turks are very united in that nationalism. any visit to Turkey will reveal this. Their red flags flutter everwhere. Their identity begins and ends with that red flag. It's fcuk everything else but the red flag.

All this unity and centralized mind comes i believe from the Ottoman era. Since we do not have a history like they do some things we will struggle to replicate in Pakistan. That is sad but that is how it is.

Pakistan is a young country in comparison to almost a millennia of their nation. Many kinks need to be ironed out especially the walking illiterate zombies. Education is the first aid that Pakistan needs. Faith, Unity and Discipline are great if only people had an actual idea about these powerful words.

As for copying Turkish Gendarmerie, I tilty towards having a force that is suited for Pakistani requirements than copying a model which works well for Turkey. I know brains exist in Pakistan some very very competent people can lay foundations for a force that can become Pakistani Gendarmerie. Might take a century to reach the level of French or Turkish Gendarmerie.

 

[Hyperion]

@Path-Finder, mate, I remember a budget comparison from 2012 or 2013, where the annual budget of Istanbul Police alone was more than PA/PAF/PN combined.

And as @Kaptan pointed out in his post earlier, for Turks, The Turkish Flag is akin to God. Pakistani mindset and Turkish mindset can NOT be compared. Not now. Not in a thousand years. As the Turks have a culture and values that revolve around love of Turkish Nation State. We are a different case. Only other country in my opinion that you can compare Turkey to is Israel. That too not that much as loyalty of Israeli society deep within is somewhat fractured and can not be exactly compared to what it is within Turkey.

 

[xenon54 out]

Oh btw theres even a very famous Jandarma song.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

But then in Pakistan we have Frontier Constabulary as well which have slightly differant remit from Frontier Corp. Both are under resourced. Despite that they do a good job despite underfunding.

 

[xenon54 out]

All this unity and centralized mind comes i believe from the Ottoman era. Since we do not have a history like they do some things we will struggle to replicate in Pakistan. That is sad but that is how it is.

nationalistic movements started when Ottoman empire was in decline and loosing wars on all fronts, at first they operated underground and could finally save the last chunk that was left of the ottoman Empire from imperialistic forces, they are also known as the Young Turks.

 

[Path-Finder]

@Path-Finder, mate, I remember a budget comparison from 2012 or 2013, where the annual budget of Istanbul Police alone was more than PA/PAF/PN combined.

And as @Kaptan pointed out in his post earlier, for Turks, The Turkish Flag is akin to God. Pakistani mindset and Turkish mindset can NOT be compared. Not now. Not in a thousand years. As the Turks have a culture and values that revolve around love of Turkish Nation State. We are a different case. Only other country in my opinion that you can compare Turkey to is Israel. That too not that much as loyalty of Israeli society deep within is somewhat fractured and can not be exactly compared to what it is within Turkey.

Hallelujah

 

[Hyperion]

Btw, FYI, @Kaptaan and others. There are whispers within the 'command' that FC maybe raised to ARMY2. Something on the lines of Jandarma, basically bypassing Police Services of Pakistan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

nationalistic movements started when Ottoman empire was in decline and loosing wars on all fronts, at first they operated underground and could finally save the last chunk that was left of the ottoman Empire from imperialistic forces, they are also known as the Young Turks.

Yes, I agree but the debris of Ottoman empire provided for a strong centralized state to take root. In Pakistan we have a federation of four major ethnic groups. For instance Pakhtuns/Baloch in the West half of the country probably have more similarties to Kurds whereas the eastern half made of Punjabi/Sindhi are probably more similiar to Indians across the border. Then we have religious divides. It all makes for a fractured polity. Take the army - it's mostly Punjabi/Pakhtun. The FC is almost all Pakhtun. The Rangers most Punjabi. It makes for a very conflicted polity.

Btw, FYI, @Kaptaan and others. There are whispers within the 'command' that FC maybe raised to ARMY2. Something on the lines of Jandarma, basically bypassing Police Services of Pakistan.

I hope so. I have lot of respect for FC. They have always been underfunded. Yet have paid heavily in fighting terrorists. They have been the first line in defence against terrorism.

 

[xenon54 out]

Yes, I agree but the debris of Ottoman empire provided for a strong centralized state to take root. In Pakistan we have a federation of four major ethnic groups. For instance Pakhtuns/Baloch in the West half of the country probably have more similarties to Kurds whereas the eastern half made of Punjabi/Sindhi are probably more similiar to Indians across the border. Then we have religious divides. It all makes for a fractured polity. Take the army - it's mostly Punjabi/Pakhtun. The FC is almost all Pakhtun. The Rangers most Punjabi. It makes for a very conflicted polity.

Well, yes it all goes back to Ottoman Empire namely the first Young Turks were Ottoman academicians who were sent to study abroad during Tanzimat reforms.
The young Turks only accelerated what the Ottoman Empire itself started a century earlier when they wanted to modernize the country in European model.
Unfortunate for Ottoman Empire was that the reforms were too late and too slow till it collapsed under its own centuries old weight.

 

[Hyperion]

For the past three years in a row, FC is being armed to the teeth. You name it. From night vision goggles to talk of dedicated air wing. The latest was opening up of Southern Command HQ of FC. They are not what they were decade ago. Vastly superior force in the making, however, comparing them even in 50 years to Jandarma is a nothing more than a bad joke.

I hope so. I have lot of respect for FC. They have always been underfunded. Yet have paid heavily in fighting terrorists. They have been the first line in defence against terrorism.

 

[revojam]

Yes, I agree but the debris of Ottoman empire provided for a strong centralized state to take root. In Pakistan we have a federation of four major ethnic groups. For instance Pakhtuns/Baloch in the West half of the country probably have more similarties to Kurds whereas the eastern half made of Punjabi/Sindhi are probably more similiar to Indians across the border. Then we have religious divides. It all makes for a fractured polity. Take the army - it's mostly Punjabi/Pakhtun. The FC is almost all Pakhtun. The Rangers most Punjabi. It makes for a very conflicted polity.

I hope so. I have lot of respect for FC. They have always been underfunded. Yet have paid heavily in fighting terrorists. They have been the first line in defence against terrorism.

Never understood why Pakistan did not implement mandotary military service : This would both reinforce national identity and loyalty to homeland as well as mix different ethnic groups.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Well, yes it all goes back to Ottoman Empire namely the first Young Turks were Ottoman academicians who were sent to study abroad during Tanzimat reforms.
The young Turks only accelerated what the Ottoman Empire itself started a century earlier when they wanted to modernize the country in European model.
Unfortunate for Ottoman Empire was that the reforms were too late and too slow till it collapsed under its own centuries old weight.

I know. When I did A- level history we had a elective module - European history ~ demise of the Ottoman Empire or the Hapsburgs. I chose the Ottomans.

suited for Pakistani requirements than copying a model which works well for Turkey

Rubbish, no offence. Pakistan has to learn to pick the best from anywhere instead of getting constipated. To begin with Frontier Corp, Frontier Constabulary, Levies, Khyber Rifles, Pakistan Army itself are nothing but British products. Each was established by the British Raj and they carry that pedigree today in eveything.

This is Corps of Guides in British era - today a famous Pak Army regiment

Frontier Corps, British era

 

[xenon54 out]

Never understood why Pakistan did not implement mandotary military service : This would both reinforce national identity and loyalty to homeland as well as mix different ethnic groups.

I always thought it was mandatory and i agree with you, for a young state it could have come very handy but maybe the reason why it was founded was and obstacle to nationalism.

I know. When I did A- level history we had a elective module - European history ~ demise of the Ottoman Empire or the Hapsburgs. I chose the Ottomans.

Well then i will find a wall to talk to because theres nothing i could tell you which you dont know already.

 

[Path-Finder]

I know. When I did A- level history we had a elective module - European history ~ demise of the Ottoman Empire or the Hapsburgs. I chose the Ottomans.

Rubbish, no offence. Pakistan has to learn to pick the best from anywhere instead of getting constipated. To begin with Frontier Corp, Frontier Constabulary, Levies, Khyber Rifles, Pakistan Army itself are nothing but British products. Each was established by the British Raj and they carry that pedigree today in eveything.

This is Corps of Guides in British era - today a famous Pak Army regiment

Frontier Corps, British era

I will disagree and call your thinking rubbish! how much similarity is there today with the old indian army under British Raj? none whatsoever other than maybe traditions. Even the best had to start somewhere! Using a template to make way yourself is far better than adopting a complete system. Even if you adopt a complete system its human nature to make adjustments according to your environment.