Jaguar Darin II

[karan.1970]

so are we going to see DARIN-3 upgrade..?

Looks like the decision is still open on Honeywell vs Rolls Royace
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...-100-combat-missiles-jaguar-2.html#post419529

 

[Windjammer]

So it may not be the most potent fighter cum strike aircraft and may need to operate as a package with Air superiority planes, but the last we saw IAF in full blown action was in 1971 and IAF was a very different force at that time. How this plane is used in any forthcoming conflict will depend on the IAF doctrine which neither of us is privy to.

But it still will hold its own against a lot of planes that Pakistan may need to press into service if war breaks out tomorrow..

Jaguar is basically a Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft (DPSA), some of them in IAF service are fitted for a maritime strike role, hence you wouldn't expect the operator to utilize it for any other role or mission.
The last thing a Jaguar pilot would want is to get involved in a dogfight.

 

[Windjammer]

To quote from "Blood Sport"

"Very Good.. But Brick not hit back"

Carrying out an exercise to maximize sorties in a controlled environment is very different from doing the same in war against a numerically superior force...

Then again, you have to crack an egg to make the omelet.
A reminder is suffice that it was indeed during peaceful climate the same superior force has successively grounded it's fleet of spearhead squadrons, hence if they are no fit they wont fly let alone achieving some land mark.

 

[karan.1970]

Jaguar is basically a Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft (DPSA), some of them in IAF service are fitted for a maritime strike role, hence you wouldn't expect the operator to utilize it for any other role or mission.
The last thing a Jaguar pilot would want is to get involved in a dogfight.

True.. The prime role will be deep strike where the air opposition is either not expected or has been cleared off by fighter escort, but the addition of A2A missiles to the Jag, provides for an unforseen situation and offers protection against an off chance of getting jumped by a CAP aircraft

 

[karan.1970]

Then again, you have to crack an egg to make the omelet.
A reminder is suffice that it was indeed during peaceful climate the same superior force has successively grounded it's fleet of spearhead squadrons, hence if they are no fit they wont fly let alone achieving some land mark.

We do get into the war of quotes.. dont we??

And the threasholds like exercises have a different complexion in peace and war times. To expect that a one of the 2 warring parties will ground a fleet on suspicion of wear and tear damage is unreal..

 

[Super Falcon]

welll i think these fighter jets only been used for ground targets as A 10 thunderbolt was made for tank buster role

 

[sur]

Here is an incident related to the IAF Jaguar Squadron which once appeared in the Air Forces Monthly Magazine.

SRINAGAR, Local IAF Commander invites the media and other personalties to display the all weather capabilities of the Jaguar aircraft,
Once everybody is present, a formation of four Jaguars head off in adverse weather conditions, however to everyone's dismay and IAF's embarrassment, all the aircraft fail to return.
It later transpires that two of them crashed while the other pair had to be diverted elsewhere.

... he cannot back his claims by good sources and research...

Is this what u yearned,,,


Source...
"...Two IAF Jaguars from Ambala crashed into mountains in the Himalayas on April 2nd 2004. The Jaguars were part of a 4-ship formation conducting low-level training when then encountered bad weather about 30 minutes after takeoff. The aircraft went missing near Gund in Sonmarg Valley, around 40 to 50 km north-east of Srinagar

A special rescue team reached the wreckage of two Jaguar fighters at a height of 12,000 ft, on the peaks between Sonmarg and Gund, and found the body of Flight Lieutenant Gagan Oberoi. The flight data recorders of both aircraft were also recovered. The body of the second pilot, Flight Lieutenant Mayank Mayur, was found near the wreckage of the second Jaguar. Both the bodies were apparently found in the cockpits of the ill-fated jets, indicating that they did not have time to eject. The two flight data recorders were sent to Ambala for further investigations. "

= = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Jaguar crash: second pilot’s body found
...from the wreckage of the two Jaguar fighter aircraft which crashed near Sonamarg, 60 km from Srinagar, on Friday...both the pilots were found in their flying seat which indicated that they did not get the time to eject...

 

[ironman]

First of all, 9 f16 are lost for your information, and 7 of them in dog fights or missions, Pakistan was the second nation (after Israel) to use the F-16 in combat at Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979

Secondly, Please use something known as BRAIN, cuz

JAGUAR IS USED FOR GROUND ATTACK, ITS A BOMBER

FI6 IS A MULTIROLE FIGHTER WHICH IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING, USE YOUR COMMON SENSE IT IS MORE LIKELY TO CRASH CUZ IT EXPERIENCES A DOG FIGHT

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT MAN

Oh yes.... My little brain cannot comprehend the facts like Pakistan has used its F-16 in 1979 while the first delivery took place in 1982. So please pour more divine thoughts like these to this common senseless little kid from India.

 

[Windjammer]

We do get into the war of quotes.. dont we??

What else can be expected, you fancy the plane, i admire the pilot.

And the threasholds like exercises have a different complexion in peace and war times. To expect that a one of the 2 warring parties will ground a fleet on suspicion of wear and tear damage is unreal..

Exercises are basically conducted to expose any remedies and polish the performance. Sorry to bring this up but in 1965 war, the very first encounter led to the IAF grounding it's entire fleet of Vampires and Ouragan aircraft.

 

[Storm Force]

Windjammer 8000 Sorties is a lot.

Thats like 20 Sorties each. For PAFs 400 FIGHTERS.

No offence to anybody intended here Just some Questions re this excercise.

1. Over wat time frame are these 8000 Sorties to be achieved..
2. What attrition rate are you assumimg against 350 BVR capable fighters of the IAF.
3. Are these sorties over Pak Air space or the highly guarded Indian Air space.
4. If split wat % ratio etc.

Finally Windjammer You asked IS IAF ready to meet the challenge for PAF which you say can fly 8000 sorties.

My answer is recently well in 1999 the IAF flew over 500 sorties against the Pakistan Army in Kargil.

They included laser guided bombing by Mirage 2000
Dumb bombing by MIG27/MIG21
CAP by MIG29 & MIG21..

The PAF did not come to the aid of the NLI.

Yet the IAF played a crucial part during KARGIL to support the Indian Army.

Today this same IAF has another 120 SU30MKI and 3 Phalcon AWACS.
This same air force as renacted strike package scenarios against friendly airforces flyinmg F16C/D from both USA & Singpore during cope india for 4 years on the TROT.

I think the IAF are both ready for challenge and have been preparing for it during the Cope India DACT operations.

 

[Windjammer]

Oh yes.... My little brain cannot comprehend the facts like Pakistan has used its F-16 in 1979 while the first delivery took place in 1982. So please pour more divine thoughts like these to this common senseless little kid from India.

I think you misunderstood @ Frankenstein, he was indicating Soviet invasion of 1979, not the year of PAF F-16 operation.

First of all, 9 f16 are lost for your information, and 7 of them in dog fights or missions, Pakistan was the second nation (after Israel) to use the F-16 in combat at Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979

 

[Windjammer]

Windjammer 8000 Sorties is a lot.

Thats like 20 Sorties each. For PAFs 400 FIGHTERS.

No offence to anybody intended here Just some Questions re this excercise.

Kindly read my post again, i did say PAF deployed all the utilities and infrastructure, hope you know what that involves.

1. Over wat time frame are these 8000 Sorties to be achieved..

The alloted period was for 15 days.

2. What attrition rate are you assumimg against 350 BVR capable fighters of the IAF.

What survival rate do you envisage against the 400 KM R'had ALCM.

3. Are these sorties over Pak Air space or the highly guarded Indian Air space.

Like the IAF's Kargil operations, the PAF sorties were on home ground.

4. If split wat % ratio etc.

Going by 1971 records, most battles took place over India.

Finally Windjammer You asked IS IAF ready to meet the challenge for PAF which you say can fly 8000 sorties.

My answer is recently well in 1999 the IAF flew over 500 sorties against the Pakistan Army in Kargil.

They included laser guided bombing by Mirage 2000
Dumb bombing by MIG27/MIG21
CAP by MIG29 & MIG21..

The PAF did not come to the aid of the NLI.

Yet the IAF played a crucial part during KARGIL to support the Indian Army.

Today this same IAF has another 120 SU30MKI and 3 Phalcon AWACS.
This same air force as renacted strike package scenarios against friendly airforces flyinmg F16C/D from both USA & Singpore during cope india for 4 years on the TROT.

I think the IAF are both ready for challenge and have been preparing for it during the Cope India DACT operations.

The IAF was basically conducting sorties on it's side of the LOC, few times it digressed, it was challenged by the PA and ended up losing a couple of aircraft. No ground battles were taking place on the Pakistan side, hence no PAF action was required but let me assure you the PAF was fully deployed on the forward bases.
Along with the Indian break down, you should keep in mind the new weapons and systems being inducted by the PAF, Saab Ereye AWACS, Air Refulers, several types of BVRs, new version of F-16s, first JF-17 Squadron operational, conducting multi national exercises with the likes of Raptors and Block-60 Dessert Falcons.
Above all conducting 8000 sorties without an incident proves the dedication and preparedness of the Airforce.,

 

[Ham-ster]

What I know IAF conducted sorties during Kargil war on Pakistani Troops, killing hundreds of PA/mujahids/jihadis on our side of LOC and PAF remained in hiding even when their countrymen were dieing in large numbers!

 

[Windjammer]

What I know IAF conducted sorties during Kargil war on Pakistani Troops, killing hundreds of PA/mujahids/jihadis on our side of LOC and PAF remained in hiding even when their countrymen were dieing in large numbers!

Well you heard wrong, if hundreds of PA or others had died on your side, your frivolous media would have had a party, instead you may want to look into your Kargil Coffin Corruption Scandal.
The PAF was very much deployed to the front, but both airforces remained on their side of the border.

 

[karan.1970]

Well you heard wrong, if hundreds of PA or others had died on your side, your frivolous media would have had a party, instead you may want to look into your Kargil Coffin Corruption Scandal.
The PAF was very much deployed to the front, but both airforces remained on their side of the border.

Slight digression but I think the leadership in Pakistan let the armed forces down at that time. Since they had not admitted to the fact of folks on our side of the LOC to be Pakistani Army, they could not provide them air cover.

As per Nawaz Sharif, some 4000 or so Pakistani forces were martyred in the conflict. I dont think there is a split given for deaths by IAF attacks vs deaths thru ground Ops