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Jaguar Darin II

Going by the same logic the thrust to weight ratio of JF-17 isn't any better than Jaguar.
JF-17 is also a under mach-2 plane.
Thrust of JF-17 - 49KN
Thrust of Jaguar - 32*2 = 64KN
Lala ji, the two aircraft have different operational requirements.

JF-17 being a single engine strike/interceptor with max speed of Mach-1.8 and G limit of 8+.
Jaguar being a DPSA, bogged down with a bomb load and not much in dog fighting capability.
 
Windjammer.

You do understand

That when Jagauars go on a bombing run THE MASSIVE FLEET of SU30MKI will already have secured Air Supremacy.

Or

At the very least the Jaguars will have Air cover from SU30MKI or MIG29SMT.

Jagauar is a Strike plane first and most.

It will not be battling in air combat.

IAF has 400 other fighters to do this job.
 
BTW there was talk of britain offering upgrade of jaguar in which engine was also to be upgraded..anything new on that..?
 
Windjammer.

You do understand

That when Jagauars go on a bombing run THE MASSIVE FLEET of SU30MKI will already have secured Air Supremacy.

Or

At the very least the Jaguars will have Air cover from SU30MKI or MIG29SMT.

Jagauar is a Strike plane first and most.

It will not be battling in air combat.

IAF has 400 other fighters to do this job.

Is the IAF in a position to guarantee air supremacy.... ?
Was this option not available to the French or the RAF.....?
The IAF didn't seem to practice the top cover scenario with the unfortunate SU-7s.
Jaguar indeed is a dedicated strike aircraft, but in an India/Pakistan scenario, the best option for it would be to operate as a part of the package, a luxury very few air forces enjoy.
 
You hit the nail on the head.

IAF regularly practises Top Cover with MKI and strike packages consisting on Mirage2000 & Jaguar planes.

Typical practise runs have been in Cope Excersises

12 Planes

4 mki providing air cover

4 Mirage2000H & 4 Jaguar in strike formations. Both planes carring Matra 530 BVR and magic WVR missles for addeded protection if room.

In the indo pak scenario based on What PAF can throw at India this is eaxctly the kind of strike formation that India is envisaging.
 
Wind jammer.

The RAF and indeed the French are geared to fighting Russia until recently of course.

IAF is geared to wards fighting PAF almost certainly in a position where PAF is mostly on the defensive and outnumbered.
 
Jaguar cannot fight JF17 it will be killed

But i believe the Bars Pesa will pick the Thunder from 140km amd using datalinking tell the Jag pilot to GET OUT danger quick.

The PESA radar on the mki CAN TRACK 20 Targets simultaneously and engage 4 at the same time.
 
Wind jammer.

The RAF and indeed the French are geared to fighting Russia until recently of course.

IAF is geared to wards fighting PAF almost certainly in a position where PAF is mostly on the defensive and outnumbered.

The French and the RAF actually decided to do away with the Jaguars after their dismal performance in the Gulf war, where incidentally there was no opposition. Amongst other drawbacks was one main reason of poor weapon sighting visibility, the IAF even had to install a search light to assist the pilot when engaged in air to air refueling.
PAF doctrine is in fact defensive offence.
As for the outnumbered remark, in 2005, PAF carried out an exercise where the main focus was to execute 8000 sorties within a fortnight period using all utilities and infrastructure, this astonishing feat was achieved without any major mis-hap, can the IAF, with it's overwhelming numerical superiority even comprehend such a challenge.
 
BTW there was talk of britain offering upgrade of jaguar in which engine was also to be upgraded..anything new on that..?

This is the last I saw

Honeywell to Give Indian Air Force's Jaguar Fighter Aircraft Superior Mission Capability | India Defence


Honeywell (NYSE: HON) announced its F125IN engine, a 9850lbf (43.8kN) thrust engine that will deliver high performance, improved pilot safety, lower maintenance and outstanding reliability.

"This thrust class engine is built around Honeywell's proven expertise in the design and production of aircraft systems, which is evident in the F125IN engine, an outstanding propulsion system for military aircraft," said Vicki Panhuise, Honeywell Vice President, Military Aircraft. "The engine will transform the Indian Air Force Jaguar aircraft by improving mission performance, enhancing pilot safety, reducing pilot workload, and reducing maintenance events and costs."

The F125IN powerplant, which is currently being considered for the Indian Air Force Jaguar re-engining program, is significantly lighter and much more powerful than the aircraft's current engine. It has an advanced dual full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) system, modular construction, integrated engine health monitoring system and best in class thrust-to-weight ratio – all designed to give the military the best engine with the lowest operating and maintenance costs.

"The F125IN will provide the Indian Air Force Jaguar fleet with a modern, reliable and safe propulsion system that will transform the capabilities, performance and safety of the aircraft in combat," Panhuise added. "In significantly improving single engine thrust performance, this increases pilot safety and aircraft survivability."

In 2007 the F125IN was successfully demonstrated for the Indian Air Force in Bangalore. The engine is projected to save the Indian Air Force more than Rupees 7000 Crores ($1.5 billion) in life-cycle costs compared to other upgrade options being considered. The F125IN permits the Jaguar to perform missions never before possible with the current engine.

The F125IN is the designation of the F125 engine for the Jaguar application, benefiting from more than 540,000 hours of operational experience on the F125. The non-afterburning version of this engine is the F124 aircraft engine, which has a long record of demonstrated success in powering military aircraft, including three highly successful re-engining programs.

Superior mission reliability is delivered by the F125's resistance to bird strikes, low unscheduled engine removal rate and low in-flight abort rate. The F125IN modern on-condition engine maintenance design leads to maximum time-on-wing, extending the first off-wing inspection interval to over 10 years of service.

The F124-GA-200 engine provides primary propulsion power for the Alenia Aermacchi M-346 aircraft. In 2008 Honeywell's International Turbine Engine Company (ITEC) was awarded a contract to deliver F124-GA-200 engines to Alenia Aermacchi for its Advanced Jet Trainer M-346. The F124-GA-200 is a low bypass ratio engine selected in numerous competitions for its ability to meet the most rigorous requirements of modern trainers. It is the latest variant in the F124 family that also includes the F124-GA-100 for the Aero Vodochody/CzAF L-159 and the Boeing/DARPA X-45A UCAV.
 
If you cannot back your claims, then don't post such Fanboyish posts claiming them to be world of god. Better stay away from sensationalism than spewing your own facts!

If you have facts and links, provide them, if not avoid making such alleged baseless arguments!

I request you to back you arguments by facts, not what you had read some long time back in some magazine by written by someone.........
Another child needs to be spoon feeded, when ever truth comes out they shout for source:lol::lol::lol:
 
Is the IAF in a position to guarantee air supremacy.... ?
Was this option not available to the French or the RAF.....?
The IAF didn't seem to practice the top cover scenario with the unfortunate SU-7s.
Jaguar indeed is a dedicated strike aircraft, but in an India/Pakistan scenario, the best option for it would be to operate as a part of the package, a luxury very few air forces enjoy.

So it may not be the most potent fighter cum strike aircraft and may need to operate as a package with Air superiority planes, but the last we saw IAF in full blown action was in 1971 and IAF was a very different force at that time. How this plane is used in any forthcoming conflict will depend on the IAF doctrine which neither of us is privy to.

But it still will hold its own against a lot of planes that Pakistan may need to press into service if war breaks out tomorrow..
 
As for the outnumbered remark, in 2005, PAF carried out an exercise where the main focus was to execute 8000 sorties within a fortnight period using all utilities and infrastructure, this astonishing feat was achieved without any major mis-hap

To quote from "Blood Sport"

"Very Good.. But Brick not hit back" ;)

Carrying out an exercise to maximize sorties in a controlled environment is very different from doing the same in war against a numerically superior force...
 
Can I use a simple Mathematics here ?

Total F-16 = 40
Lost = 10
Attrition Rate = 25%

Total Jaguar = 178 (38+140)
Lost = 39
Attrition Rate= 21.9%


P.S:- Links are provided

First of all, 9 f16 are lost for your information, and 7 of them in dog fights or missions, Pakistan was the second nation (after Israel) to use the F-16 in combat at Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979

Secondly, Please use something known as BRAIN, cuz

JAGUAR IS USED FOR GROUND ATTACK, ITS A BOMBER

FI6 IS A MULTIROLE FIGHTER WHICH IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING, USE YOUR COMMON SENSE IT IS MORE LIKELY TO CRASH CUZ IT EXPERIENCES A DOG FIGHT

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT MAN:lol:
 
so are we going to see DARIN-3 upgrade..?
 
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