J-10 Vs F-16 Technical Comparison

[gambit]

Which begs the next question. What are intake ramps for?

Jet engines do not operate well with supersonic air. A few seconds, perhaps, but not for minutes. The engine will explosively disintegrate. There are no shortage of attempts to control inlet air velocity to subsonic, usually by varying inlet opening, or volume, and they work. The SR-71 have full cones, or spikes, that has fore-aft translation. The F-111 has quarter cones assembly that expands, or 'blossom', as well as fore-aft translation, to control inlet volume.

F-111 Inlets

The F-14 and F-15 have ramps that 'nod' in a up-down motion.

Inlet air velocity MUST be detected, measured and factored in into the mechanical responses of those methods. In the F-111 source above, you will see pointers to something called the 'local Mach probe' to the photos. Fancy names for pitot-static air sensors. We can infer inlet air velocity from the main pitot-static air sensors for airspeed/altitude indicators, but that inference can be inaccurate due to inadequate engineering. Airspeed/altitude pitot-static sensors are usually in direct air flow around the main fuselage. So for inlet air velocity, logical to install the sensor near the intake.

But the trade-off for all methods is greater complexity, from multiple pitot-static systems to the mechanical actuators that must vary inlet volumes. Mach 2+ dashes are no longer as tactically decisive as we once believed. Sustained Mach 1 with a more simple and reliable propulsion system, from inlet to engine, is preferable.

 

[gambit]

Why are older F-16 variants considered more manoeuverable than later variants?

Because the older variants have less 'doo-dads' attached to them in order to make the F-16 multi-missions capable. An analog 'A' model will make a 'noob' blow chunks quicker into the flight than later models.

 

[CardSharp]

Jet engines do not operate well with supersonic air. A few seconds, perhaps, but not for minutes. The engine will explosively disintegrate. There are no shortage of attempts to control inlet air velocity to subsonic, usually by varying inlet opening, or volume, and they work. The SR-71 have full cones, or spikes, that has fore-aft translation. The F-111 has quarter cones assembly that expands, or 'blossom', as well as fore-aft translation, to control inlet volume.

F-111 Inlets

The F-14 and F-15 have ramps that 'nod' in a up-down motion.

Inlet air velocity MUST be detected, measured and factored in into the mechanical responses of those methods. In the F-111 source above, you will see pointers to something called the 'local Mach probe' to the photos. Fancy names for pitot-static air sensors. We can infer inlet air velocity from the main pitot-static air sensors for airspeed/altitude indicators, but that inference can be inaccurate due to inadequate engineering. Airspeed/altitude pitot-static sensors are usually in direct air flow around the main fuselage. So for inlet air velocity, logical to install the sensor near the intake.

But the trade-off for all methods is greater complexity, from multiple pitot-static systems to the mechanical actuators that must vary inlet volumes. Mach 2+ dashes are no longer as tactically decisive as we once believed. Sustained Mach 1 with a more simple and reliable propulsion system, from inlet to engine, is preferable.

Is it a matter of pressure or because supersonic air have different mechanical properties?

Is engine RPM modulated based on air speed?

What is the doctrinal use of Mach 2 dashes? Disengaging or pursuit, what?

 

[gambit]

Is it a matter of pressure or because supersonic air have different mechanical properties?

Both. Understand that the engine is where we have the highest concentration of moving parts in a single unit on an aircraft and in very tight tolerances. Supersonic air molecules, in terms of scale regarding those tolerances, exert much greater pressure on engine blades and other components than just about anything we invented for aviation.

Is engine RPM modulated based on air speed?

No.

What is the doctrinal use of Mach 2 dashes? Disengaging or pursuit, what?

Speed is life in aviation. So whether is for pursuit or to exit a fight, speed helps. But the problem here is how quickly can you 'spool' up the engine to give you that speed. Acceleration is not speed and throttle response to give us acceleration is often more tactically advantageous than final speed.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Why dont compare F-16E VS J-10B

F-16E

I think F-16 is battle proven thats the edge over J-10B

 

[Super Falcon]

thats why pakistan airforce in 2005 cut the number of 70 F 16 to just 18 and im sure that chinese said them about J 10 programme than pakistan was looking for last 15 years for those F 16 but they did not buyed it in huge numbers as they planned must be J 10 will be coming in huge numbers in future

 

[CardSharp]

Both. Understand that the engine is where we have the highest concentration of moving parts in a single unit on an aircraft and in very tight tolerances. Supersonic air molecules, in terms of scale regarding those tolerances, exert much greater pressure on engine blades and other components than just about anything we invented for aviation.

Is this tight tolerance why China has trouble developing an indigenous engine for its fighters? Or is it something else like metallurgy and materials? (I'm assuming they have the plans for the engines)

Also isn't the F-16 a little light to be truly multi-missioned like the F-18? It was conceived as the ultimate dog-fighter no?

 

[no_name]

Jet engines do not operate well with supersonic air. A few seconds, perhaps, but not for minutes. The engine will explosively disintegrate. There are no shortage of attempts to control inlet air velocity to subsonic, usually by varying inlet opening, or volume, and they work. The SR-71 have full cones, or spikes, that has fore-aft translation. The F-111 has quarter cones assembly that expands, or 'blossom', as well as fore-aft translation, to control inlet volume.

F-111 Inlets

The F-14 and F-15 have ramps that 'nod' in a up-down motion.

Inlet air velocity MUST be detected, measured and factored in into the mechanical responses of those methods. In the F-111 source above, you will see pointers to something called the 'local Mach probe' to the photos. Fancy names for pitot-static air sensors. We can infer inlet air velocity from the main pitot-static air sensors for airspeed/altitude indicators, but that inference can be inaccurate due to inadequate engineering. Airspeed/altitude pitot-static sensors are usually in direct air flow around the main fuselage. So for inlet air velocity, logical to install the sensor near the intake.

But the trade-off for all methods is greater complexity, from multiple pitot-static systems to the mechanical actuators that must vary inlet volumes. Mach 2+ dashes are no longer as tactically decisive as we once believed. Sustained Mach 1 with a more simple and reliable propulsion system, from inlet to engine, is preferable.

So does ramjet and pulse jet engine work with supersonic air since they have little or no moving parts and hence being capable for higher speed applications?

 

[CardSharp]

So does ramjet and pulse jet engine work with supersonic air since they have little or no moving parts and hence being capable for higher speed applications?

This is turning into a Q&A session for Gambit. I wonder what his AFSC's was.

 

[siegecrossbow]

So does ramjet and pulse jet engine work with supersonic air since they have little or no moving parts and hence being capable for higher speed applications?

Ramjets can't work unless the plane/missile is already travelling at very high speeds. This is why secondary engines are required for aircrafts using ramjets.

 

[no_name]

There was talk of researching pulpulsion technology in china using theory inspired by observed tornado effects. Apparently it may be possible to generate motion and therefore thrust through temperature gradient along without needing some sort of compression heat exchange process. Currently work is done to add the segment behind a normal engine to raise it's efficiency by making used to heat that would otherwise be wasted. They are now looking at further feasibility study.

Engine has been a bottle neck for a long time. Instead of catching up some of the research should be going into looking at alternative arrangements/developments to complement/replace current progress.

 

[gambit]

So does ramjet and pulse jet engine work with supersonic air since they have little or no moving parts and hence being capable for higher speed applications?

Ramjets can't work unless the plane/missile is already travelling at very high speeds. This is why secondary engines are required for aircrafts using ramjets.

According to my Det 4 SR-71 pals way back when the Cold War was hot, technically speaking, the SR-71 has 4 engines: two turbofans and two ramjets. The J-58 was essentially a turbofan mated to and in front of the ramjet. At subsonic speed, the turbofan is the main propulsion method. At supersonic, the ramjet takes over and that is how the SR-71 is able to cruise at Mach 3+. So yes, ramjet is for supersonic air, however you want to get to supersonic first depends on you, either a turbofan or rocket.

 

[CardSharp]

Neat, I didn't think a hybrid turbofan/ramjet was possible

or bigger and in colour
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/SR71_J58_Engine_Airflow_Patterns.svg

What's center body bleed?