Its official UK has joined Turkish 5th Generation Fighter-Program

[Hassan Guy]

Its a long term goal bro, first we should contribute one of them or both to gain experience how to build 5th gen jet especially for engine, radar, EW, ECM, ECCM, ESM and overall system intregation for our projected 5 th or 5.5th gen jet

The (joint)development of those sub-systems can be done on the JF-17 project and implemented on a next gen fighter.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The (joint)development of those sub-systems can be done on the JF-17 project and implemented on a next gen fighter.

and JF-17 has lots of foreign stuff and how do you implement 4th gen stuff on 5th gen jet

 

[imadul]

BAE will provide advanced technical consultancy and project management, IMO.
It is not a partnership.

 

[Hassan Guy]

and JF-17 has lots of foreign stuff and how do you implement 4th gen stuff on 5th gen jet

JF-17 has no other "foreign" components other than the engine. The rest is all pakistani and chinese, the two developers of the jet.

Engine, AESA radar, EW, ECM etc.. on a 4th gen fighter can be integrated on a 5th gen.

 

[Baybars Han]

BAE is just supporting us, as we have no experience from building a modern jet from the ground up with a brand new design etc. It will probably be a rolls royce engine.

Number 1 Absolute priority is that we have no restriction in building and modifying etc. Its still a long way and intended to replace the f-16's from 2030 onwards. First prototype flight is expected to be 2023.

 

[war&peace]

Comrade,
With Britain,its about economic interests nothing else,Turkiye is a market and the Brits make use of it,why should the Brits care for Europe after Brexit (2019 probably)?
Rapprochment with Russia and China cant be prevented and is not the goal of the Brits.
So,its all about business.

I don't think Britain can have more leverage or influence on Turkey than USA and Turkey under Erdogan has been getting more and more independent and Turkey's relations with Russia and cooperation over Syrian issue speak loudly about it.

 

[Ultima Thule]

JF17 is god enough to tackle mig 21 which is a flying coffin. Stop this nonsense. An aircraft which is not inducted by the developing nation is not worth enough. If it is that good then why did not chinese inducted it ??

No bro JF-17 can tackle every fighter except MIG-29 and Su-30MKI

JF-17 has no other "foreign" components other than the engine. The rest is all pakistani and chinese, the two developers of the jet.

Engine, AESA radar, EW, ECM etc.. on a 4th gen fighter can be integrated on a 5th gen.

Yaar don't fool yourself than why US wasn't used F-15 subsystem in F-22, which is the replacement of F-15 EW, ECM, is spanish on J-17 not Chinese, and Chinese product is still called foreign not local

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir In Current scenario which aircraft is the best to counter India Sukhoi or upcoming Rafaels. I am pretty much sure JF17 does not fall in that league. What do you think which aircraft who has been tested and experienced enough is good enough to serve PAF in todays date ?



JF17 is god enough to tackle mig 21 which is a flying coffin. Stop this nonsense. An aircraft which is not inducted by the developing nation is not worth enough. If it is that good then why did not chinese inducted it ??

Hi,

For your second part---

The chinese have not inducted the JF17 because of their decision for a minimum sized aircraft---.

They have deleted the LCA from their inventory and will stay will medium weight combat aircraft and above.

But that is not the end.

They have gotten smarter now---they are running two parallel programs and each program being developed seperately---the JF17 by Pakistan---and J10 by china---.

China has a massive shortage of upper tiered aircraft for the tactical position that it has found itself---for that reason---you are seeing china fill in its hole by investing heavily in the top tier aircraft the J20---the medium aircraft the J10's and the heavy strike and air superiority aircraft the J11--15---16's etc---.

So---the fear of the coming war is keeping it away from a smaller aircraft---just because it does not have enough---.

Now for the 1st part----what aircraft----? The aircraft is just a conduit to get you where you need to be---it is your EW suite---that will make or break you and your weapons package---.

With the right EW package and weapons and a power plant---along with the support group---the JF17 can meet and compete with any of these aircraft in a given scenario---remember---you are not fighting blazing guns and cannons over here---.

If the BLK 3 JF17 gets the right package---then you would be more interested in building up the numbers of the JF17---because in the end it would be a numbers game.

The choice of the 5th gen must be delayed as far back as it can be within reason---.

For the 5th gen---I would stick with the J31---the project is flying---it is way ahead of the Turkish 5th gen---I would keep some investment and manpower on the Turkish program.

Now---there are 2 ways to look at Paf acquiring the 5th gen---. They should go for it now---it would be far superior to what the enemy can come up with---ie the su30's---the m2k's---the mig29's or the rafales---.

Which would then make the enemy acquire the 5th gen as well from their source---. Which would mean---that your pilots would be ahead of the enemy pilots in training and operation of a 5th gen aircraft---and by the time the enemy 5th gen hits their runways---your 5th gen would be ready for ' newer ' upgrades---and that will keep you ahead of the game---.

I don't think Britain can have more leverage or influence on Turkey than USA and Turkey under Erdogan has been getting more and more independent and Turkey's relations with Russia and cooperation over Syrian issue speak loudly about it.

Hi,

It is actually a double whammy for the U S---Turkey taking and independant stance on one side of asia---and pakistan giving the U S middle finger right in south asia / middle east at Gwadar---.

The U S is clueless right now in what to do---. Nawaz and Zardari and co are waiting on the sidelines for the signal to sell their souls.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

They're a good consultant to have, congrats.

 

[Fawad alam]

Now---there are 2 ways to look at Paf acquiring the 5th gen---. They should go for it now---it would be far superior to what the enemy can come up with---ie the su30's---the m2k's---the mig29's or the rafales---.

Dear you are right in your opinion, but we should prepare plan-B for a war which can happen in near future.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Hi,

For your second part---

The chinese have not inducted the JF17 because of their decision for a minimum sized aircraft---.

They have deleted the LCA from their inventory and will stay will medium weight combat aircraft and above.

But that is not the end.

They have gotten smarter now---they are running two parallel programs and each program being developed seperately---the JF17 by Pakistan---and J10 by china---.

China has a massive shortage of upper tiered aircraft for the tactical position that it has found itself---for that reason---you are seeing china fill in its hole by investing heavily in the top tier aircraft the J20---the medium aircraft the J10's and the heavy strike and air superiority aircraft the J11--15---16's etc---.

So---the fear of the coming war is keeping it away from a smaller aircraft---just because it does not have enough---.

Now for the 1st part----what aircraft----? The aircraft is just a conduit to get you where you need to be---it is your EW suite---that will make or break you and your weapons package---.

With the right EW package and weapons and a power plant---along with the support group---the JF17 can meet and compete with any of these aircraft in a given scenario---remember---you are not fighting blazing guns and cannons over here---.

If the BLK 3 JF17 gets the right package---then you would be more interested in building up the numbers of the JF17---because in the end it would be a numbers game.

The choice of the 5th gen must be delayed as far back as it can be within reason---.

For the 5th gen---I would stick with the J31---the project is flying---it is way ahead of the Turkish 5th gen---I would keep some investment and manpower on the Turkish program.

Now---there are 2 ways to look at Paf acquiring the 5th gen---. They should go for it now---it would be far superior to what the enemy can come up with---ie the su30's---the m2k's---the mig29's or the rafales---.

Which would then make the enemy acquire the 5th gen as well from their source---. Which would mean---that your pilots would be ahead of the enemy pilots in training and operation of a 5th gen aircraft---and by the time the enemy 5th gen hits their runways---your 5th gen would be ready for ' newer ' upgrades---and that will keep you ahead of the game---.



.

do note the pakistan will get 5th gen planes before india anyway so whats the rush? the amca is struggling to get even the right amount of funding and is expected to be inducted mid 2030. the fgfa being the first 5th gen fighter will reach india at around 2025 if things go well. it could be sooner if they decide to buy some of the shelf but thats if there desperate, and by that i mean pakistan well on it way to get fifth gen fighters before india.

i think the j-31/fc-31 will be ready for deliveries by at max 2023. china being china and and the money doing the talking it could easily be sooner.
and even quicker if plaan decide to go for it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

My approach is both

• Purchase 2 Squadrons of J-31 , to help mature that platform (Attain within 1-2 years and refine to Block 2 by 2021)
  
• Invest in the TFX project , for a alternative strategy (8 year projection)
• Designing a 5th Generation plane from scratch 100% cost would be high no doubt (Local Path)

It would make sense to be part of the J-31 , platform since we are already connected to China , and help mature this platform it can be integrated immediately , and Chinese can help develop the Block 2 of this Jet , of course we would benefit when that happens. (32-40 Fighters). The J-31 is "flying in air"

Now the Turkish project looks interesting however , folks have stated it will take 7-8 years for it to finish. Investment $$ from Pakistan side would make sense put $$$$ commitment into project no brainer this is being designed from scratch so will take time.

Hopefully around 2025 , we can be confident which platform is ideal to replace F16 Jets we have

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

My approach is both

• Purchase 2 Squadrons of J-31 , to help mature that platform (Attain within 1-2 years and refine to Block 2 by 2021)
  
• Invest in the TFX project , for a alternative strategy (8 year projection)

It would make sense to be part of the J-31 , platform since we are already connected to China , and help mature this platform it can be integrated immediately , and Chinese can help develop the Block 2 of this Jet , of course we would benefit when that happens. (32 Fighters)

Now the Turkish project looks interesting however , folks have stated it will take 7-8 years for it to finish. Investment $$ from Pakistan side would make sense put $$$$ commitment into project

Hopefully around 2025 , we can be confident which platform is ideal to replace F16 Jets we have

As far as my understanding of the mindset of the Muslim government in Turkey is concerned, I don't think $$ would be an issue, especially where Pak is concerned. Anyway, the ultimate plan of Reis Erdo'an is to trade and invest in local currencies. So, it's TL and PKR. The pilot project has already been successfully initiated with Russia. I am pretty sure Pak is also in the pipeline. No wonder they sent SEAL commandos with 7K rounds and F16s with air-to-air missiles to kill him!!!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Yes agreed considering we have both options to be active member on J-31 and TFX , it makes sense that Pakistan is involved in both of the projects.

• TFX would offer next level in knowledge development after JF17 project
• The J-31 relation would be more of Technology verifier / Launch customer, TOT would be nice to have

I was kinda hoping with either case we would be developing the next model of Engine as well specially in TFX project but lets see what happens. Lets see if our PAF has commited to this project

Certainly the time frame for 7-8 years offers ample time to define a design , capable to meet latest emerging challenges , the end product would offer something unique

UK does obviously bring alot of past experience with such projects so certainly a great addition

I certainly would like to see solid commitment from Pakistan side in TFX project

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear you are right in your opinion, but we should prepare plan-B for a war which can happen in near future.

Hi,

Absolutely---and that is what I have been saying for the last many years---.

Paf is not ready to fight a war for the last 30 years now---one excuse after the other.