What's new

'It's a Very Powerful State': Zelensky Seeks Direct Talks With China's Xi to Help 'End War With Russia'

LMAO this fking clown, does he even watch the news?

I like your "Z". :tup:

Stimulating domestic demand through war is like using drugs. No matter what the current situation of the USA is, Americans can't leave it.

Unfortunate.

In 1980, China was not a country dependent on Global trade.

But surely the Chinese government should have found ideological comradery with the Communist Afghan government / system and with the USSR instead of allying with NATO.

And what about now ? Taliban and all.
 
.
I like your "Z". :tup:



Unfortunate.



But surely the Chinese government should have found ideological comradery with the Communist Afghan government / system and with the USSR instead of allying with NATO.

And what about now ? Taliban and all.
We do not recognize the Soviet Union as a communist country. We believe that the Soviet Union is a chauvinist empire.

Communist countries should not invade other countries. As early as 1958, the Soviet Union had become the enemy of China.
 
.
The USA and China are completely different.

The USA is a country that relies on domestic demand to promote economic development. War is a country's biggest domestic demand.

Therefore, the USA will always be in a state of war, while China will always oppose any war.


I remind you again that Russia has a trade surplus with China. Few countries in the world have a trade surplus with China.

Secondly, the West has no ability to sanction China whether China is involved in the Ukrainian war or not. China did not intervene in the Ukrainian war because it was unwilling, not unable.
Russia makes war then makes big profits from selling high priced fuels. That’s not something to be proud of. The money is not earned by hard works. A bus driver drives Venezuela into bankruptcy. Another oil rich country. China has big trade surpluses. The deficit with Russia is nothing.

The oil price has retreated. Recession is looming. The current situation is just temporary. Once oil price collapses Putin is naked.
 
.
We do not recognize the Soviet Union as a communist country. We believe that the Soviet Union is a chauvinist empire.

How do you mean ?

Communist countries should not invade other countries.

Which country did USSR invade, especially in manner of NATO ?

As early as 1958, the Soviet Union had become the enemy of China.

1. What happened in 1958 ?

2. The early Chinese space program in the 1960s and 70s had USSR's assistance.
 
.
How do you mean ?



Which country did USSR invade, especially in manner of NATO ?



1. What happened in 1958 ?

2. The early Chinese space program in the 1960s and 70s had USSR's assistance.
In 1958, the Soviet Union demanded the stationing of troops on Chinese territory and the command of the Chinese navy.

After the Chinese govt rejected the Soviet demands, the Soviets demanded that China immediately repay all its debts in advance. In 1958 / 1960, China was in a famine, and the Soviet Union's demand for early repayment of debt was tantamount to extortion.

After the Chinese govt repaid its debts, the Soviets announced the severance of diplomatic relations with China.

After 1958, the Soviet govt withdrew all aid. The development of science and technology in China after 1958 has nothing to do with the Soviet Union.

 
.

Zelensky Makes Public Plea to China's Xi Jinping After Calls Unanswered​


ON 8/4/22 AT 5:21 AM EDT

esident Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine has urged China to reorient its position on Russia and use its political and economic clout to help bring an end to the ongoing war in his country.

In an interview with Hong Kong's South China Morning Post published on Thursday—his first with an Asian news outlet—Zelensky said he had sought a direct line to his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, since the Russian invasion began more than 160 days ago.

"I would like to talk directly. I had one conversation with [President] Xi Jinping that was a year ago," he told the Post's Amy Chew. "Since the beginning of the large-scale aggression on February 24, we have asked officially for a conversation, but we (haven't had) any conversation with China even though I believe that would be helpful."

An adviser to the Ukrainian leader told Newsweek's David Brennan as early as March that Kyiv was expecting talks between Zelensky and Xi "to take place very soon." The call never happened.

Meanwhile, President Vladimir Putin of Russia has spoken with his opposite number in China at least twice since February 24, according to readouts published by Moscow and Beijing.

They included one conversation less than 24 hours later, after which the Russian Embassy in Beijing said Xi had expressed his "respect" for Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. After they spoke again in June, the Kremlin said the Chinese leader endorsed "the legitimacy of Russia's actions to protect fundamental national interests."

The UN Human Rights Office said on Monday that at least 5,327 civilians had been killed and a further 7,257 injured since the war began. Meanwhile, a rolling tally by the UN Refugee Agency showed more than 6.3 million Ukrainians had fled the country as of August 3.

"The Russians are the invaders...this is a war on our territory, they came to invade. China, as a big and powerful country, could come down and sort of put the Russian Federation [in] a certain place," he was quoted as saying. "Of course, I would really like China to review its attitude towards the Russian Federation."

Xi and Putin cemented their geostrategic partnership in the weeks before the invasion began; Beijing and Moscow—comprising two-fifths of the UN Security Council's permanent members—view one another as complementary advocates of an international order free of Western liberal influence in general and American leadership in particular.

Zelensky, 44, believes the Chinese leadership understands that the economic upheaval caused by Putin's war won't benefit Beijing either.

"It's a very powerful state. It's a powerful economy...So (it) can politically, economically influence Russia," Zelensky told the Post.

"I'm confident, I'm sure that without the Chinese market for the Russian Federation, Russia would be feeling complete economic isolation," he said. "That's something that China can do—to limit the trade (with Russia) until the war is over."

Zelensky and Xi last spoke in 2021. In early January this year, the two leaders exchanged pleasantries via Telegram to mark 30 years of formal bilateral ties between the two countries. According a readout published by the Chinese Foreign Ministry at the time, Xi told Zelensky their countries enjoyed "deepening political mutual trust."

"I attach great importance to the development of China-Ukraine strategic partnership," the Chinese leader said, describing the relationship as "mature, stable and resilient." Three weeks later, Beijing publicly sided with the Kremlin against NATO for the first time.

 
.

Zelensky Makes Public Plea to China's Xi Jinping After Calls Unanswered​


ON 8/4/22 AT 5:21 AM EDT

esident Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine has urged China to reorient its position on Russia and use its political and economic clout to help bring an end to the ongoing war in his country.

In an interview with Hong Kong's South China Morning Post published on Thursday—his first with an Asian news outlet—Zelensky said he had sought a direct line to his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, since the Russian invasion began more than 160 days ago.

"I would like to talk directly. I had one conversation with [President] Xi Jinping that was a year ago," he told the Post's Amy Chew. "Since the beginning of the large-scale aggression on February 24, we have asked officially for a conversation, but we (haven't had) any conversation with China even though I believe that would be helpful."

An adviser to the Ukrainian leader told Newsweek's David Brennan as early as March that Kyiv was expecting talks between Zelensky and Xi "to take place very soon." The call never happened.

Meanwhile, President Vladimir Putin of Russia has spoken with his opposite number in China at least twice since February 24, according to readouts published by Moscow and Beijing.

They included one conversation less than 24 hours later, after which the Russian Embassy in Beijing said Xi had expressed his "respect" for Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. After they spoke again in June, the Kremlin said the Chinese leader endorsed "the legitimacy of Russia's actions to protect fundamental national interests."

The UN Human Rights Office said on Monday that at least 5,327 civilians had been killed and a further 7,257 injured since the war began. Meanwhile, a rolling tally by the UN Refugee Agency showed more than 6.3 million Ukrainians had fled the country as of August 3.

"The Russians are the invaders...this is a war on our territory, they came to invade. China, as a big and powerful country, could come down and sort of put the Russian Federation [in] a certain place," he was quoted as saying. "Of course, I would really like China to review its attitude towards the Russian Federation."

Xi and Putin cemented their geostrategic partnership in the weeks before the invasion began; Beijing and Moscow—comprising two-fifths of the UN Security Council's permanent members—view one another as complementary advocates of an international order free of Western liberal influence in general and American leadership in particular.

Zelensky, 44, believes the Chinese leadership understands that the economic upheaval caused by Putin's war won't benefit Beijing either.

"It's a very powerful state. It's a powerful economy...So (it) can politically, economically influence Russia," Zelensky told the Post.

"I'm confident, I'm sure that without the Chinese market for the Russian Federation, Russia would be feeling complete economic isolation," he said. "That's something that China can do—to limit the trade (with Russia) until the war is over."

Zelensky and Xi last spoke in 2021. In early January this year, the two leaders exchanged pleasantries via Telegram to mark 30 years of formal bilateral ties between the two countries. According a readout published by the Chinese Foreign Ministry at the time, Xi told Zelensky their countries enjoyed "deepening political mutual trust."

"I attach great importance to the development of China-Ukraine strategic partnership," the Chinese leader said, describing the relationship as "mature, stable and resilient." Three weeks later, Beijing publicly sided with the Kremlin against NATO for the first time.


Zelenskyy and Xi have unequal positions and are not suitable for direct calls. Zelenskyy should ask his master to call Xi.

Secondly, Zelenskyy should praise China as a just state, not a powerful state. If Zelenskyy only believes that China is powerful rather than just, then he does not need to seek China's help.
 
Last edited:
.
In 1958, the Soviet Union demanded the stationing of troops on Chinese territory and the command of the Chinese navy.

What was the reason the USSR gave ?

After the Chinese govt rejected the Soviet demands, the Soviets demanded that China immediately repay all its debts in advance. In 1958 / 1960, China was in a famine, and the Soviet Union's demand for early repayment of debt was tantamount to extortion.

Yes, if that is true then it is extortion. But the USSR has monetarily and resource-wise aided a lot of countries.

After the Chinese govt repaid its debts, the Soviets announced the severance of diplomatic relations with China.

This page on astronautix.com says a different story :
Arduous Pioneering

Building rocket and aircraft technology in China was to be a long process. Achieving the indigenous technologies in metallurgy, machinery, and electronics was an enormous task. Tsien assisted in negotiation of a 1956 agreement with the Soviet Union for transfer of rocket and nuclear technology to China, including training of Chinese students at Russian universities. The Russians provided an R-2 rocket, an improved version of the V-2, as a starting point. But in 1960 the Soviet government discontinued further cooperation with China. Nevertheless later that year Tsien launched the first Chinese-built R-2, the DF-1.
Second half of 1958 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • R-2 technical documentation delivered. - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien. 10,151 volumes of R-2 technical documents are delivered to Beijing. China orders 12 more R-2 missiles. 100 Soviet technicians arrive as advisors to the Chinese in production and operation of th emissiles..
January 1959 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • R-2 production advisors - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien. The first Soviet advisors arrive to assist the Chinese in production of the R-2 missile..
April 1959 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • Chinese/Russian missile talks - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien. A Chinese delegation goes to Russia to discuss delivery of more tooling and machine tools for missile production..

1959 June 20 - . LV Family: R-12. Launch Vehicle: DF-2.
  • Decision to withhold R-12 and nuclear warhead drawing package from China over Sidewinder affair - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Khrushchev, Tsien. Spacecraft: Project 581.
    The Soviet Central Committee advises China it will not provide prototype or drawings of atomic bombs as agreed previously. Khrushchev promised China that he would provide the drawing package for the R-12 IRBM as soon as testing was completed. However then came the affair of the Sidewinder. At the end of 1958 or early 1959 a complete missile fell into the hands of the Chinese. They promised to provide it to the Russians, but then dragged their feet. They were finally told in February 1959 that unless they provided the Sidewinder, they would not be given the R-12 package. The missile was finally delivered but it was found that the key crystal in the infrared homing sensor was missing. The Chinese had also been caught disassembling a P-15 cruise missile at a training facility in China. It had taken the Russian trainers two days to get it reassembled correctly. Therefore on June 20 1959 the decision was taken not to transfer the R-12 or the promised nuclear warhead design to China.
    The Soviets created a new design bureau to copy the Sidewinder. Fabrication of the crystal for the infrared sensor was the main obstacle. The initial production batches had a 99% rejection rate. A state commission was set up to get to the bottom of the problem, but couldn't find a solution. The main problem seemed to be low-quality ore provided by the mines.
July 1959 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • Chinese/Russian missile talks - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien. A second Chinese delegation goes to Russia to press for delivery of more tooling and machine tools for missile production..

1959 September 15 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • First missile factories built. - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien. Program: Long March. First Chinese missile production factories built: Shenyang (missile frames) Nancheng (engines)..

October 1959 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • Project 1059 - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien. Nie Rongzhen, Senior Commander of the Revolution responsible for strategic weapons, orders the Fifth Academy to quit wasting time on trying to leapfrog Soviet technology and concentrate on copying the Russian R-2. Code name for the project is 1059..
But finally the split :
1960 August 12 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • Soviet/China break. - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien.
    In the preceding months relations between the Soviet advisors and Chinese engineers had been strained by increasing Soviet secrecy. The Russians catch Chinese students at the Moscow Aviation Institute stealing restricted missile data. Finally Khrushchev declared the suspension of military assistance to China. All 1,343 Soviet specialists are withdrawn from the Fifth Academy in Beijing and return to Russia. They leave behind 343 uncompleted contracts. A total of 257 technical development projects were cancelled as a result.

1960 August 23 - . LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: DF-1.
  • Last Russian advisers leave China. - . Nation: China. Related Persons: Tsien. Program: Long March. The last Russian technical advisers are withdrawn from China..

1960 September 1 - . Launch Site: Shijiedu. Launch Vehicle: T-7.
  • Test mission - . Nation: China. Agency: Shanghai. Apogee: 60 km (37 mi). First launch of the all-up missile..

1960 September 1 - . Launch Site: Jiuquan. Launch Complex: Jiuquan LA3. LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: R-2.
  • Nation: China. Agency: PRC. Apogee: 100 km (60 mi). The rocket was built in the Soviet Union but used Chinese propellants. This launch took place just a month after all Soviet experts were withdrawn from China..
1962 February 1 - .
  • Communist China and Soviet Union split in conflict over Communist ideology. - . Nation: China.

After 1958, the Soviet govt withdrew all aid. The development of science and technology in China after 1958 has nothing to do with the Soviet Union.


So China and USSR split in 1962 over "differences in application and understanding of Communism" but I must ask you, what Communist ideology was being propagated by China by allying with NATO against Communist Afghanistan in the 1980s ? What was it during the 2011 NATO+GCC+Al Qaeda+"Muslim" Brotherhood invasion of the Libyan Jamahiriya ? What was it ten years later in 2021 when China recognized the NATO-appointed Taliban government ?
 
.
What was the reason the USSR gave ?



Yes, if that is true then it is extortion. But the USSR has monetarily and resource-wise aided a lot of countries.



This page on astronautix.com says a different story :




But finally the split :





So China and USSR split in 1962 over "differences in application and understanding of Communism" but I must ask you, what Communist ideology was being propagated by China by allying with NATO against Communist Afghanistan in the 1980s ? What was it during the 2011 NATO+GCC+Al Qaeda+"Muslim" Brotherhood invasion of the Libyan Jamahiriya ? What was it ten years later in 2021 when China recognized the NATO-appointed Taliban government ?


IMG_20220804_190642.jpg
 
.

1. So Mao refused to allow USSR's technicians and advisors to jointly operate radio stations with China. And Mao opposed a joint naval fleet with USSR. Seems to me to be Mao being egotist.

2. Yet like I posted about the missile and consequently space program of China, USSR was providing the technology production and the technicians in 1958 up to 1962.

3. You did not reply about China being involved with NATO in the 1980s against Communist Afghanistan, being absent on the Libyan side in the Libya invasion of 2011 and siding with the Taliban since 2021. Also to mention being absent in Syria.
 
.
1. So Mao refused to allow USSR's technicians and advisors to jointly operate radio stations with China. And Mao opposed a joint naval fleet with USSR. Seems to me to be Mao being egotist.

2. Yet like I posted about the missile and consequently space program of China, USSR was providing the technology production and the technicians in 1958 up to 1962.

3. You did not reply about China being involved with NATO in the 1980s against Communist Afghanistan, being absent on the Libyan side in the Libya invasion of 2011 and siding with the Taliban since 2021. Also to mention being absent in Syria.

1, China is not an Eastern European satellite country even smaller than Japan, China and the Soviet Union are equal allies. The Soviet Union's delusion of stationing troops in China and controlling the Chinese army is arrogant and stupid. It is shameless to blackmail China in famine through debt relations.

2, The Soviet Union invaded Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan and other countries. This proves that the Soviet Union is not a communist country, but an imperialist country. It is a pseudo communist country. Such a country will do more harm to communism than the USA.

3, The Soviet Union is our enemy, and its allies are also our enemies.
 
.
2, The Soviet Union invaded Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan and other countries. This proves that the Soviet Union is not a communist country, but an imperialist country. It is a pseudo communist country. Such a country will do more harm to communism than the USA.

1. The USSR invaded Afghanistan ? Man, you speak the same as CNN and BBC. The USSR came into Afghanistan to defend the country from NATO created, armed and logistically, economically and politically supported irrationals, regressives and psychopaths from the Western bloc and others - from Bangladesh to Indonesia to Sudan to I am sure China too. The "Afghan jihad" was as much a NATO regime change operation as was the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Libyan Jamahiriya and Syria starting 2011 and Venezuela for also years.

This man, Abdul Ahad Mohmand, was the first Afghan and the second South Asian to go to space in 1988, aboard a USSR Soyuz rocket and stayed on the USSR space station Mir :
abdul2520ahad2520mohmand_image_20181201175826.jpg

He wasn't much complaining about "Soviet invasion of Afghanistan". And do you know he left Afghanistan for Germany when some of your dear "Afghan" "Mujahideen" aka Taliban took over the country after the defeat of the Najibullah government in 1992 ? He didn't quite respect those tens of thousands of China-and-NATO-supported "Afghan" "Mujahideen" criminals. He left.

2. When USSR was in Afghanistan the Indian government under PM Rajiv Gandhi feared that the USSR will help the Pakistani Communists and Socialists to overthrow the NATO-supported dictator Zia ul Haq and this might induce the Indian Communists to agitate for Communist governance in India which the mostly Capitalist Congress party of Rajiv Gandhi didn't certainly want so towards this prevention his government was ready to support Zia ul Haq get back into power if Zia was overthrown by the leftists. Below is from my thread from 2015 :
Rajiv Gandhi regarded Pakistan as 'strategic buffer' against USSR: CIA document
Sep 01, 2015
  • Rajiv Gandhi was the seventh Prime Minister of India (Photo: PTI/File)
Washington: Contradicting perceived proximity to the Soviet Union in the Cold War era, India under the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had toyed with the idea of supporting anti-Russian civilian groups in Pakistan if the then Zia regime was thrown out by Moscow, a recent declassified CIA document has claimed.

According to CIA documents of the era, which were recently declassified and posted on the CIA website under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), which is similar to India's Right to Information Act, Gandhi wanted non-interference from both the United States and the then USSR. "Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi would like both the USSR and the United States to end their involvement in South Asia," noted the 31-page CIA document titled 'The Soviet Presence in Afghanistan: Implications for the Regional Powers and the US'.

While taking note of the historic India-USSR relationship in particular in the defence field, the CIA report of April 1985 noted that India is likely to become increasingly concerned about long-range Soviet intentions in the region and could find itself moving towards confrontation with the Soviets if Pakistan was effectively neutralised.

"New Delhi regards Pakistan as a strategic buffer against the USSR and would oppose Moscow's effort to dominate Pakistan. New Delhi and Moscow would find themselves supporting rival factions within Pakistan," said the report, according to which Moscow had plans to change the regime in Pakistan and extend its influence beyond Afghanistan. In that case, the report said, "The Indians would seek to significantly reduce their dependence on Moscow and reorder their strategic relationship with the USSR, the United States and China if they perceived Soviet ambitions as extending beyond Afghanistan toward the subcontinent."

According to the report, the Soviets tried to heighten India's suspicion about Pakistan's intentions and its security relationship with the US in order to foster Indo-Pakistani tensions and heighten New Delhi’s dependence on Moscow. "In Soviet view, conflict between India and Pakistan would work toward solving Moscow's Afghan problem and would give Moscow opportunities to strengthen its position in South Asia," the report said.

"If (Gen) Zia (Ul Haq) regime were to fall, the Indians might try to prevent Soviet attempt to dominate Pakistan by supporting rival Pakistani political factions, Soviet military moves against an already neutralised Pakistan could even result in military confrontation with India," it added.

Six months later when Gandhi was planning to meet General Zia on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly meeting in New York, the CIA analyzed that the then Indian Prime Minister, despite his strong public views on Pakistan's nuclear weapons program, was unlikely to push him hard on it. "Gandhi is unlikely to push Zia hard about the Pakistani nuclear program, although he probably will at least mention his continuing concern," noted the top secret CIA document dated October 21, 1985.

"For his part, Zia is also likely to propose ideas on ways to improve the bilateral relationship. He may suggest regular high-level diplomatic talks in addition to the formal Joint Commission sessions that focuses on trade, communications and cultural exchanges," the report said. "Zia may also solicit Gandhi's views on whether as the Pakistanis believe the Soviets are becoming serious about a negotiated settlement in Afghanistan," it said.

3. You call USSR as a pseudo-Communist country but I tell you that China is no one to speak of Communism :
This is "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" ?
 
.
Hmm, that's quite a contradictions-filled balancing. Then what do you think about this talk show clip from the Indian right-wing news channel ( what we call Godi Media ) Republic TV in which the usually voluble host Arnab Goswami was shushed by a senior Western academic / researcher / businessman ( whose name I forgot but who has worked with USSR and Russia ) who was angry not only at Arnab's way of hosting the panel but also at Arnab ( and much of India ) not seeing that the Ukraine war is Russia's effort and sacrifice that will bring benefit to India and China ?



And Russia has been the main beneficiary.



I am talking about fundamental digital computing :



Vaccine, more genetics research, research from USSR days.



Tesla ? BMW ? Ground cars will soon be obsolete. Russia is developing the Cyclocar which is based on the Cyclorotor concept. Though the Cyclocar is presented for military purposes there is nothing to stop it from being used as a taxi or minibus - skycar and skybus. However, in the vid the under-development vehicle labeled "CycloTech" at 0:39 is from the Austrian company CycloTech :

Tesla and BMW surely will in a few years stop selling their over-priced nonsense.



Just like North Korea and I believe some in South Korea want unification, is there a movement among Taiwanese and Chinese to have a peaceful unification ?
Where do I find Russia origin components in 99.99 percent of computers? Windows, Apple, Unix, Linux? Not even the plastic cover.
 
.
Where do I find Russia origin components in 99.99 percent of computers? Windows, Apple, Unix, Linux? Not even the plastic cover.

Well, that is a market Russia missed. Intel has put in backdoor into its processor boards in form of Intel Management Engine and AMD has done a similar thing directly into one of its processor lines in form of, wait for it, "TrustZone". :rofl:

So Russia could really have advertized its processors and boards in the world as general purpose, reliable and safe that could generally securely run x86 Windows XP and Linux without any backdoor for the American government.
 
.
Ok tell me what items you import from Russia accept fuels and minerals? Let’s me guess: gold, diamonds, fertilizer, grains. Maybe some machinery. China has nothing to gain if delivery weapons to Russia. The moment you deliver the relationship to the West is finished. Even if you willing, I doubt Putin needs chinese weapons.
Congratulations on the opportunity to sanction China.

I send you a message from China. In response to Pelosi and the USA, the Chinese govt will publicly export drones, chips and 152mm howitzers to Russia.

I hope the west can be as brave as you said to impose sanctions on China.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom