Italy delivering surplus self-propelled howitzers to Pakistan Army

[Signalian]

40 M110A2.



PA M109A2's were never upgraded to M109A5.

The major difference between the two is the gun: M109A2 uses the M185 howitzer while the M109A5 uses the improved M284 howitzer. Both are 39 caliber guns and it isn't economically feasible to replace one 39 cal. gun with another 39 cal. gun unless there is a substantial increase in range.
However, it is a totally different scenario if the 39 cal. gun is to be replaced by a 47 cal. gun (as on RUAG M109 KAWEST) or 52 cal. gun (offered by Rheinmetall and others).

Continuing where you left off...

M-109A2

The M109A2 is a new production weapon which incorporated 27 mid-life improvements to the M109A1. The improvements provide for increased Reliability, Availability, and Maintainability (RAM) and safety characteristics as well as enhanced operational capabilities.
The M109A2 has the long tube M185 cannon installed in the M178 gun mount. The cab has a rear bustle rack which provides an increased ammunition stowage capacity. It has an all weather ballistic shield mounted over the panoramic telescope; counterbalanced travel lock and provisions for mounting the M140 alignment device.

M-109A4 is closely linked with M-109A5, so mentioning M-109A4.

M-109A4
The M109A4 is a M109A2/A3 with modifications which include the addition of Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical/ Reliability, Availability, and Maintainability (NBC/RAM) product improvement kits. The driver and cannoneer number 2 have an air purifier and two heaters mounted in the hull. An air purifier and four heaters are mounted in the cab for the rest of the crew.
NBC Mission Oriented Protective Posture (MOPP) gear is stored in the new cannoneer seats and stowage boxes. The traversing mechanism operates with a hydraulic clutch in the M109A4 instead of using an electric clutch as in the traversing mechanism of the M109A2/A3 Howitzer. A clutch valve, with a manual override, provides for power traverse in the event of an electrical failure to the clutch valve solenoid. The M109A4 has two hydraulic filters mounted outside of the power pack. The M109A2/A3s have one internal hydraulic power pack filter. The M109A4 has a starter protection circuit with a combat override switch, to allow for emergency starting. The slave start receptacle has been moved from the battery compartment to the driver's compartment. The M109A2/A3 100 amp alternator has been replaced by a 180 amp alternator.
Crew compartment subfloor drains have been added to provide for the drainage of DS2 used in the NBC decontamination process and provide for the drainage of excess water.

M-109A5
The M109A5 is a modified M109A4 with two major improvements:
1.A new M284 Cannon and;
2.a new M182 Gun Mount.
These improvements provide the M109A5 with greater range and allow for sustained fire for prolonged periods of time.

What are Pcs ?

Buddy, just some information that i was expecting you to bring up, Ammo load for M-109 A2 and A5 is 34.

152 M109A2
115 M109A5
65 M109L + 1 M109L (arrived on 4 April 2016)
41 M109A4+

So total 374.

Some more information:

EFC Life of Cannon Tube of M-185 = 6375 Rounds. (Breech Assembly life is Original and Two retubings)
EFC Life of Cannon Tube of M-284 = 2650 Rounds. (Breech Assembly life is Original and One retubing)

EFC = Equivalent Full Charge

Unique rounds used by M-109 and their functionalities:

Anti-Armor Warfare:

a. M-712 Round : For engaging armored vehicles and emplacements.
The M712 projectile is guided to its target by a laser beam directed on the target from the laser designator and has five time and code switches set by the crew prior to firing.

b. M-898 Round: For top-attack of self-propelled artillery and armored combat vehicles.
The M898 projectile has millimeter-wave radar and infrared sensors to locate targets and provide countermeasure resistance. The warhead is an explosively formed penetrator designed for top-attack of self-propelled artillery and armored combat vehicles.

c. M-741 and A1 Round: Used to deliver high–explosive anti–tank mines in front of enemy armored force to deny or delay access to a particular area for a specific time period.

d. M-718 and A1 Round: Used to deliver nine high– explosive anti– tank mines in front of enemy armored force to deny or delay access to a particular area for a specific time period.

 

[BATMAN]

Where should these guns be stationed ideally?

 

[Basel]

Where should these guns be stationed ideally?

Sindh and Punjab areas.

 

[fatman17]

Recently, as many as 42 retired M109 SPA units are acquired from Canada. These M109 will be dismantled and use as source of spares for supporting existing M109 fleet of Pakistan Army. https://t.co/QI0s2GaaKa

 

[Signalian]

Recently, as many as 42 retired M109 SPA units are acquired from Canada. These M109 will be dismantled and use as source of spares for supporting existing M109 fleet of Pakistan Army. https://t.co/QI0s2GaaKa
View attachment 472307

A4 standard.

Where should these guns be stationed ideally?

Sialkot to Nagarparkar.

 

[BATMAN]

I think ideal positioning of these howitzer should be along side fenced border of Afghanistan.

 

[Kompromat]

Yes. More coming.

you said in some thread that Pakistan will be getting these from a friendly country , few months back .. is that the same possible purchase you were talking about ?

 

[Signalian]

I think ideal positioning of these howitzer should be along side fenced border of Afghanistan.

have a look at that terrain.

 

[BATMAN]

have a look at that terrain.

Explain... what's wrong with terrain?

IMO, its not about terrain, its about nature of threat we face from Afghanistan.
Ambushes by hordes of wild animals of Northern Alliance aka ANA, whom we can successfully scare away with gun fire.
Indian side we should deal with drone strikes.

 

[Path-Finder]

Explain... what's wrong with terrain?

IMO, its not about terrain, its about nature of threat we face from Afghanistan.
Ambushes by hordes of wild animals of Northern Alliance aka ANA, whom we can successfully scare away with gun fire.
Indian side we should deal with drone strikes.

these guns will be used with advancing armor! Not border east or west.

 

[BATMAN]

these guns will be used with advancing armor! Not border east or west.

These can be used anywhere by the policy makers, but the armchairs should give their opinion with some logical argument.

Without logic, i can say locate all outside my home, together with a squadron of jF-17.

 

[Path-Finder]

These can be used anywhere by the policy makers, but the armchairs should give their opinion with some logical argument.

Without logic, i can say locate all outside my home, together with a squadron of jF-17.

bloody hell!

 

[Signalian]

Explain... what's wrong with terrain?

IMO, its not about terrain, its about nature of threat we face from Afghanistan.
Ambushes by hordes of wild animals of Northern Alliance aka ANA, whom we can successfully scare away with gun fire.
Indian side we should deal with drone strikes.

Most of the terrain along the border with Afghanistan is mountainous, especially going north where Northern Alliance has control. Traversing this terrain is easy by foot or air support. Light vehicles can be used but not in all places. Guns towed behind trucks are suitable for this terrain, every artillery gun is effective when deployed correctly be it 105mm or 155mm. The nature of warfare here is mobile at rare places only, not all, as the adversary is also ill equipped and under strength and uses unconventional techniques, like tunnels and caves in mountains to cross border. Heavy Armor can be used but at a few places and ambushes can be easily placed there. Surveillance drones and QRF on light helicopters (3-6 troops) for chasing and engaging militants spotted on mountain and hilly terrain can be best used here.

Regarding scaring away with gunfire, let me narrate the experience faced by PA troops when fighting Afghans/Pushtoon insurgents in FATA and Baluch insurgents in Baluchistan.
The Afghans/Pushtoons have a mentality relative to caliber of the gun. If they are using bigger caliber than PA, they will put up a fight. If they have a smaller caliber, they will still not get scared away infact try to cause maximum damage before backing off. When using IED's they will remain at place to see the damage caused and then go to hiding place. During this process of checking the damage caused, they will leave a safe place to come ahead and then engaged by PA in combat.
The Baluch dont care, they will never bother to check damage caused by IED or ambush, they will detonate IED and flee.

The ANA is another story. Due to the nature of their training by NATO, their level of confidence keeps coming and going. The commanders will be confident but the troops will be de-moralized (amounting to desertions). The ANA also possesses 122mm, 130mm and 155mm artillery as well as MLRS BM-21. India is trying to open another LOC here for Pakistan so that the pressure on Kashmir LOC is lifted and Pakistan gets engaged on both borders actively.

The border with India is plains, hills and desert where armored forces can be effectively used as the nature of warfare is more mobile, keeping in mind adversary's weaponry. M-109 is self propelled and tracked like tanks and its used with armored formations to keep pace with advancing tanks.

 

[BATMAN]

bloody hell!

I think, situation with Indian border has been changed due to new technological advancements.
This is how Pak army was able to free some of its troops, to be posted at Afghan border.
You will see a followup by Indian army as well, they will also stop spending on heavy weight equipment, and would start procuring drones etc. instead of Tanks and SU etc.

 

[Signalian]

I think, situation with Indian border has been changed due to new technological advancements.
This is how Pak army was able to free some of its troops, to be posted at Afghan border.
You will see a followup by Indian army as well, they will also stop spending on heavy weight equipment, and would start procuring drones etc. instead of Tanks and SU etc.

FC is posted on Afghan border and FC formations have doubled.
PA units are on rotation from eastern border and sent back after completing tenure. 4 PA div's are constantly posted on Western side of Pakistan with Afghanistan in peacetime., plus another Infantry Div HQ to be raised in Swat.